Feeling disconnected

[BlackDawg]

Disconnected...unplugged...canvass thrown over me and placed in a dark part of a leaking rusty shed is how I feel about the dogs at the moment.

 

[Riggs80]

I believe Lichaa for one who was one of the last signings of the old board is backended, Klemmer was backended as per article.. if you don't think JJ , Foran, hoppa are not backended for starters you completely wrong .

As for Klemmer he produces more in rep games than for dogs past couple of years, yes he is a metre eater but he holds no fear to opposition forwards, he doesn't break the line, no offload or creativity , if he gets ball near the line no fear that he will crash over for a try ... that's why he is not a 1.2m a year player

What you fail to understand it's not that the club has no cap space , they are reorganising where it is spent and rebuilding the squad from scratch , to fix the mess it I'll take a few years to refresh the squad .. takes time to clear the deadwood , replace with goers and then start recruiting big name players

Finally as for Ennis and Klemmer putting in 110% the dogs have had plenty and more loyal players , these are the guys that didn't have the skill and produced above their weight.. too numerous to spell but all you have to do is look at the squads pre dib and Hasler to find those players

 

[Powerslide]

I believe Lichaa for one who was one of the last signings of the old board , Klemmer was backended as per article.. if you don't think JJ , Foran, hoops are not backended for starters you completely wrong .

As for Klemmer he produces more in rep games than for dogs past couple of years, yes he is a metre eater but he holds no fear to opposition forwards, he doesn't break the line, no offload or creativity , if he gets ball near the line no fear that he will crash over for a try ... that's why he is not a 1.2m a year player

As for your attack on Anderson, I actually find it funny , feminist try make out that men hold back women and glass ceiling and all , but I find other women tear women apart so much more.

What you fail to understand it's not that the club has no cap space , they are reorganising where it is spent and rebuilding the squad from scratch , to fix the mess it I'll take a few years to refresh the squad .. takes time to clear the deadwood , replace with goers and then start recruiting big name players

Finally as for Ennis and Klemmer putting in 110% the dogs have had plenty and more loyal players , these are the guys that didn't have the skill and produced above their weight.. too numerous to spell but all you have to do is look at the squads pre dib and Hasler to find those players

Cogger was the last signing of the old board. So he could also be back ended. by my count 21 of our top 30 are likely back ended.

 

[TwinTurbo]

My understanding of the salary cap for 2019 is that the 30 players each receive a minimum of $105k, so that's $3.15m spent already. Leaving $6.45m to pay players more than the minimum. From what I can tell for 2019 we were somewhere around $13m in contracts. So just to get back to being compliant (ie; at $9.6m) we had to shed $3.4m worth of players. Roughly adding up Mbye, Woods and Mozzs x we may have just about made it down to compliance, net of support payments paid to the clubs that took them. For 2018 we had a similar, but smaller problem, hence shedding Kasiano, Graham and Reynolds fixed that. So shedding 4 + 3 = 7 players over 2 years just gets us to compliance at around $9.6m for next year with not a lot of money to spend, hence why there's 1 spot left in the 30.

After the old board got us into this horrific position, I think the new board has done the best job possible. Being 50% over the cap was never going to be easy to fix, there had to be a lot of pain for what looked like not much gain especially to outsiders who don't know the details. Without divulging how much every player was paid there is no realistic answer to satisfying the baying masses.

As an outside looking in, the Klemmer situation is entirely different, not at all comparable. He asked for a release to talk to Newcastle citing "personal reasons", we said OK, but just Newcastle. None of that is against the NRL rules as the 2 parties to the existing contract agreed, Bulldogs and Klemmer. By allowing Klemmer to talk to Newcastle we now know the asking price $'s wise. So we can match it if we choose to do so. We also know the "personal reasons" (they must have been serious and believable otherwise we would have said no) and we know what to do to mitigate them. Some simple examples, if it's distance to family then relocate them, if it's hospital treatment then organise it locally, if its homesick wife them find out what she is homesick for and fix it. If its a nanny for the kids as a grandma substitute then organise it. If it's a scholarship for the kids to go to a private school that's too easy. The Bulldogs is a large and wealthy organisation, we have ways and means, let's use them.

On a related subject, Slater and Bellamy were flown to Sydney to front the judiciary and fight against Slater's suspension in a sponsor's private jet. How come that's not included in the salary cap (goods or services supplied in kind)? Using that as a precedent could we not, say, fly Klemmer's wife to Newcastle to see the family twice a week (if that is solution to a "personal issue") or fly family to Sydney for hospital treatment (if that is a solution to a "personal issue"). There are a lot of creative ways to solve "personal issues" and there are plainly outside of the salary cap ways to solve them. I wait with much anxiety to hear what we are doing, don't need the exact details, just some broad statement like "we are addressing the "personal issues" will go a long way.


Go Dogs

 

[Wolfmother]

My understanding of the salary cap for 2019 is that the 30 players each receive a minimum of $105k, so that's $3.15m spent already. Leaving $6.45m to pay players more than the minimum. From what I can tell for 2019 we were somewhere around $13m in contracts. So just to get back to being compliant (ie; at $9.6m) we had to shed $3.4m worth of players. Roughly adding up Mbye, Woods and Mozzs x we may have just about made it down to compliance, net of support payments paid to the clubs that took them. For 2018 we had a similar, but smaller problem, hence shedding Kasiano, Graham and Reynolds fixed that. So shedding 4 + 3 = 7 players over 2 years just gets us to compliance at around $9.6m for next year with not a lot of money to spend, hence why there's 1 spot left in the 30.

After the old board got us into this horrific position, I think the new board has done the best job possible. Being 50% over the cap was never going to be easy to fix, there had to be a lot of pain for what looked like not much gain especially to outsiders who don't know the details. Without divulging how much every player was paid there is no realistic answer to satisfying the baying masses.

As an outside looking in, the Klemmer situation is entirely different, not at all comparable. He asked for a release to talk to Newcastle citing "personal reasons", we said OK, but just Newcastle. None of that is against the NRL rules as the 2 parties to the existing contract agreed, Bulldogs and Klemmer. By allowing Klemmer to talk to Newcastle we now know the asking price $'s wise. So we can match it if we choose to do so. We also know the "personal reasons" (they must have been serious and believable otherwise we would have said no) and we know what to do to mitigate them. Some simple examples, if it's distance to family then relocate them, if it's hospital treatment then organise it locally, if its homesick wife them find out what she is homesick for and fix it. If its a nanny for the kids as a grandma substitute then organise it. If it's a scholarship for the kids to go to a private school that's too easy. The Bulldigs is a large and wealthy organisation, we have ways and means, let's use them.

On a related subject, Slater and Bellamy were flown to Sydney to front the judiciary and fight against Slater's suspension in a sponsor's private jet. How come that's not included in the salary cap (goods or services supplied in kind)? Using that as a precedent could we not, say, fly Klemmer's wife to Newcastle to see the family twice a week (if that is solution to a "personal issue") or fly family to Sydney for hospital treatment (if that is a solution to a "personal issue"). There are a lot of creative ways to solve "personal issues" and there are plainly outside of the salary cap ways to solve them. I wait with much anxiety to hear what we are doing, don't need the exact details, just some broad statement like "we are addressing the "personal issues" will go a long way.


Go Dogs

Thank you.

I didn't realise we were 50% over the cap that's huge!!

 

[Wolfmother]

The last time the salary cap was mentioned publically by the bulldogs, mbye and woods were still on the books..
Since then Woods 900k salary dropped to 300k. That's a saving of 600k already..

In the article written about the bulldogs salary cap way back in May, Lynne Anderson does not disclose the exact wages of the players citing breach of privacy .. I think in the situation where the salary cap was breached they should be open booked about it so that members can get informed .

Holding back pivotal information is, in my eyes, being deceptive and hence my feeling of disconnection to the club.

We all assume that klemmer wants out because hes after more money , that's whatCEO Hill is implying. From what I've read Klemmer was being shopped around last year but refused to leave stating he loved the bulldogs too much

 

[TwinTurbo]

The last time the salary cap was mentioned publically by the bulldogs, mbye and woods were still on the books..
Since then Woods 900k salary dropped to 300k. That's a saving of 600k already..

Leaving only $2.8m to go.

In the article written about the bulldogs salary cap way back in May, Lynne Anderson does not disclose the exact wages of the players citing breach of privacy .. I think in the situation where the salary cap was breached they should be open booked about it so that members can get informed .

How would you like it if your employer wasn't making any money (ie; over the salary cap) so they told everyone how much you were being paid? Personally I wouldn't like it.

Holding back pivotal information is, in my eyes, being deceptive and hence my feeling of disconnection to the club.

Some things yes, but how much people get paid, that's a no go area for me.

We all assume that klemmer wants out because hes after more money , that's whatCEO Hill is implying. From what I've read Klemmer was being shopped around last year but refused to leave stating he loved the bulldogs too much

My take is that the "personal reasons" weren't that big 18 months ago, ie; his love for the Bulldogs was stronger than the "personal problem/s". But they have grown since to the point where he thinks that the only way out is to move to Newcastle. Maybe the extra money gives him a way out, maybe the extra money just pays for the cost of moving, stamp duty, legal fees, etc Remember he pays 49.5% tax so whatever he gets he looses what his agent charges plus half in tax.

FWIW, I believe that there must be some pretty strong "personal reasons" otherwise he wouldn't have been allowed to negotiate in the first place.

Go Dogs

 

[Kennelnator]

Leaving only $2.8m to go.

How would you like it if your employer wasn't making any money (ie; over the salary cap) so they told everyone how much you were being paid? Personally I wouldn't like it.

Some things yes, but how much people get paid, that's a no go area for me.

My take is that the "personal reasons" weren't that big 18 months ago, ie; his love for the Bulldogs was stronger than the "personal problem/s". But they have grown since to the point where he thinks that the only way out is to move to Newcastle. Maybe the extra money gives him a way out, maybe the extra money just pays for the cost of moving, stamp duty, legal fees, etc Remember he pays 49.5% tax so whatever he gets he looses what his agent charges plus half in tax.

FWIW, I believe that there must be some pretty strong "personal reasons" otherwise he wouldn't have been allowed to negotiate in the first place.

Cheers
Gary

Im pretty sure he drops his tax margin below the 25% mark

 

[Smirrors]

Or they could be building a war chest for someone big. Anouncement tomorrow

Was there an announcement?

 

[Alexander the Great]

Or they could be building a war chest for someone big. Anouncement tomorrow

Is it tomorrow yet?

 

[Wolfmother]

Leaving only $2.8m to go.

How would you like it if your employer wasn't making any money (ie; over the salary cap) so they told everyone how much you were being paid? Personally I wouldn't like it.

Some things yes, but how much people get paid, that's a no go area for me.

What separates this club from any other club who publish salaries and expenses?

 

[Wolfmother]

I believe Lichaa for one who was one of the last signings of the old board is backended, Klemmer was backended as per article.. if you don't think JJ , Foran, hoppa are not backended for starters you completely wrong .

As for Klemmer he produces more in rep games than for dogs past couple of years, yes he is a metre eater but he holds no fear to opposition forwards, he doesn't break the line, no offload or creativity , if he gets ball near the line no fear that he will crash over for a try ... that's why he is not a 1.2m a year player

What you fail to understand it's not that the club has no cap space , they are reorganising where it is spent and rebuilding the squad from scratch , to fix the mess it I'll take a few years to refresh the squad .. takes time to clear the deadwood , replace with goers and then start recruiting big name players

Finally as for Ennis and Klemmer putting in 110% the dogs have had plenty and more loyal players , these are the guys that didn't have the skill and produced above their weight.. too numerous to spell but all you have to do is look at the squads pre dib and Hasler to find those players

So you are only speculating that JJ, Foran and Hoppa are on back ended deals??
Hence my disconnection with the club and my lack of trust.. The club has a responsibility to show its members how the Money is being spent especially because it's affecting our product.

As for "there's plenty of players that gave 110%" or more than Ennis and klemmer" it would be beneficial to your argument if you could at least NAME one and back it up like an adult conversation.

And if you're happy with being in the dark and fed bullshit then good luck to you but don't try to shut me down for trying to seek the truth.

 

[Nexus]

So you are only speculating that JJ, Foran and Hoppa are on back ended deals??
Hence my disconnection with the club and my lack of trust.. The club has a responsibility to show its members how the Money is being spent especially because it's affecting our product.

As for "there's plenty of players that gave 110%" or more than Ennis and klemmer" it would be beneficial to your argument if you could at least NAME one and back it up like an adult conversation.

And if you're happy with being in the dark and fed bullshit then good luck to you but don't try to shut me down for trying to seek the truth.

No, the club does not have the responsibility of opening their books to members. Name me one club that does.

 

[c-b-b]

No, the club does not have the responsibility of opening their books to members. Name me one club that does.

Imagine every other club and player manager knowing the situation and what that would do to our future.

 

[Wolfmother]

No, the club does not have the responsibility of opening their books to members. Name me one club that does.

Clubs do publish annual expenditure reports which include salaries of directors, CEO etc..

Also large companies such as Westpac, Qantas, large franchises etc all have the CEO's salaries published .

I think in the case of the NRL where it's pivotal that teams stay within the salary cap and particularly because many clubs have breached the cap, the salaries should be transparent to all.

 

[Spoonman84]

Clubs do publish annual expenditure reports which include salaries of directors, CEO etc..

Also large companies such as Westpac, Qantas, large franchises etc all have the CEO's salaries published .

I think in the case of the NRL where it's pivotal that teams stay within the salary cap and particularly because many clubs have breached the cap, the salaries should be transparent to all.

It wouldn’t matter if they made salaries open to the public it wouldn’t have any effect on catching cap cheats. Unless every club did it you would be a moron to make such information public.

 

[Z-Dizzle]

Clubs do publish annual expenditure reports which include salaries of directors, CEO etc..

Also large companies such as Westpac, Qantas, large franchises etc all have the CEO's salaries published .

I think in the case of the NRL where it's pivotal that teams stay within the salary cap and particularly because many clubs have breached the cap, the salaries should be transparent to all.

There is a reason the players salaries aren't published.

From a clubs perspective, it makes it much easier to poach a player, managers aren't telling other clubs what their clients signed for because thats damaging to their negotiation value. So when a rival club goes into a negotiation they are going in blind. If they have our players salaries the Eels for example can come in and say "Josh, we know you are on $750k at the Dogs, We are willing to give you $825k, thats a 10% increase on your salary."

From a players perspective, a club who publishes their salary is stifling their future earnings. With that Josh Jackson example above, if the Eels had come to negotiate they would have had to give him a figure they were willing to pay and he could continue to negotiate against that for a higher wage, so say the Eels came in with an offer of $750k but were willing to pay up to $900k, he could push for that $900k and the Eels wouldn't be aware of how much he is making at the Dogs, nor how much the Dogs have left in their cap to renegotiate with him. So if one club is publishing their player salaries, as a player you'd be taking a huge potential paycut to go play for them.

 

[Wolfmother]

There is a reason the players salaries aren't published.

From a clubs perspective, it makes it much easier to poach a player, managers aren't telling other clubs what their clients signed for because thats damaging to their negotiation value. So when a rival club goes into a negotiation they are going in blind. If they have our players salaries the Eels for example can come in and say "Josh, we know you are on $750k at the Dogs, We are willing to give you $825k, thats a 10% increase on your salary."

From a players perspective, a club who publishes their salary is stifling their future earnings. With that Josh Jackson example above, if the Eels had come to negotiate they would have had to give him a figure they were willing to pay and he could continue to negotiate against that for a higher wage, so say the Eels came in with an offer of $750k but were willing to pay up to $900k, he could push for that $900k and the Eels wouldn't be aware of how much he is making at the Dogs, nor how much the Dogs have left in their cap to renegotiate with him. So if one club is publishing their player salaries, as a player you'd be taking a huge potential paycut to go play for them.

Found this
https://www.zerotackle.com/rugby-league/players/highest-paid-players/

 

[Z-Dizzle]

Found this
https://www.zerotackle.com/rugby-league/players/highest-paid-players/

That is based on the made up media numbers that always get thrown around. You'll notice on most of those articles they use the term "believed to be worth". Even with the James Roberts forged amendment the other year the Media only knew for sure what the amendment for Origin appearances were and had to take stabs in the dark for what the rest of the contract was worth.

 

[_G-Dog_]

I really think it's time we ask why they can't afford to keep Klemmer who was the 2018 player of the year for the club..

Hes our star asset & player of the year.. show the man some love and give him more cash.. he would stay.. the guys been a bulldog his whole career..