Everything Trump - Discussion Thread

[Boxer]

you are a nut case mate, go see a doctor.

what was the age of mary when she married joseph?

what was the legal age of marriage across the world before 1875? were majority of the human race before 1875 pedos?

Bro don't bother he has an agenda and his making him self look like a fool.

 

[EXPLORER]

you are a nut case mate, go see a doctor.

what was the age of mary when she married joseph?

what was the legal age of marriage across the world before 1875? were majority of the human race before 1875 pedos?

@COVENS
I'm accused of being a nut case now

Again
Feel free to moderate
That is a personal attack
Against forum rules you know

 

[COVENS]

@COVENS
I'm accused of being a nut case now

Again
Feel free to moderate
That is a personal attack
Against forum rules you know

Does that offend you?

 

[EXPLORER]

Hard time = "you're being inflammatory"

Yes
You know it

Now moderate those who are breaking clear rules and personally attacking me

Prove to me your not one sided

Here is your opotunity to prove your integrity

 

[EXPLORER]

Does that offend you?

Yes
I'm offended to be called a nut case
A drug user
And any other personal attacks from them

 

[Boxer]

Papa Het has a point

Covers has a point.

Papa Het has the correct point that beating exists in the quran. Even if it is just a "tap" it shouldn't be there fullstop. Especially if you consider that woman to be your partner in life. There's no amount of translations, interpretations or historical context that changes the fact that it shouldn't be there

Covers has a point that PH comes in (although with justified reasoning) looking for a fight rather than discussion (in this case)

I've adjudicated now let's move back on to trump

Bro it's there for a reason you can't pick and choose what must go in the Quran.
There are reasons for it and I said before it's a sin to be violent against women.

 

[CaptainJackson]

mate, seriously

Trad has no fucken clue and as much idea about Quran as Papa Het and Wolfy.

You need to look at Prophet Mohammad (peace be upon him) to see if he ever beat his wife or the companions. Yes literal translation of verse means

But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], hit them (gently). But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.

the problem comes up with the hypocrites who hate muslims is they pick and choose from where ever they want. There are numerous hadiths from the prophet where it is said " the worst of men are who beat their wives"

So yes it is said in quran to gently hit your wife but the interpretation of it is completely different.

I can quote the verse on prohibition of alcohol from quran where it says "dont go near prayers if you are drunk" that means i am ok to drink rest of the time? this is where morons who have particular agenda against islam pick one verse and hadith and run with it.

this is what we see happening with wolfy and papa.

Thats doesn't wash mate. The quran is supposed to be the "perfect, unchanging" word of God. Hadiths , a man made book, has to come in aND clean up gods unclear words?

 

[Boxer]

Yes
I'm offended to be called a nut case
A drug user
And any other personal attacks from them

Ok I'm sorry for saying your a drug user.
But stop being irrational.

 

[CaptainJackson]

Bro it's there for a reason you can't pick and choose what must go in the Quran.
There are reasons for it and I said before it's a sin to be violent against women.

The quran says that it is clear, complete and final. The hadiths have to come in aND clear up the interpretations?

 

[Boxer]

Thats doesn't wash mate. The quran is supposed to be the "perfect, unchanging" word of God. Hadiths , a man made book, has to come in aND clean up gods unclear words?

It is perfect, just cause it doesn't suit you dosent mean its not.

 

[EXPLORER]

Does that offend you?

I just answered your question
It's a clear personal attack
Against the rules of this forum

Are you just going to turn a blind eye to it?

If so
That's fine
Just admit to it and redeem some integrity
I'll think higher if you if you are at least honest

 

[Indiandog]

Abu Dawud, Book 11, Number 2139:
Narrated Mu'awiyah al-Qushayri:
I went to the Apostle of Allah and asked him: What do you say (command) about our wives? He replied: Give them food what you have for yourself, and clothe them by which you clothe yourself, and do not beat them, and do not revile them.
here are other verses of quran

"O ye who believe! Ye are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should ye treat them with harshness, that ye may take away part of the dower [money given by the husband to the wife for the marriage contract] ye have given them, except where they have been guilty of open lewdness; on the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing, and God brings about through it a great deal of good. (The Noble Quran, 4:19)"

"And among God's signs is this: He created for you mates from amongst yourselves (males as mates for females and vice versa) that you might find tranquillity and peace in them. And he has put love and kindness among you. Herein surely are signs for those who reflect. (The Noble Quran 30:21)"

"Women impure for men impure. And women of purity for men of purity. These are not affected by what people say. For them is forgiveness and an honorable provision. (The Noble Quran 24:26)"


and here are number of hadiths

Abu Dawud, Book 11, Number 2141:
Narrated Abdullah ibn AbuDhubab:
Iyas ibn Abdullah ibn AbuDhubab reported the Apostle of Allah as saying: "Do not beat Allah's handmaidens", but when Umar came to the Apostle of Allah and said: Women have become emboldened towards their husbands, he (the Prophet) gave permission to beat them. Then many women came round the family of the Apostle of Allah complaining against their husbands. So the Apostle of Allah said: Many women have gone round Muhammad's family complaining against their husbands. They (the men) are not the best among you.
[online reference: www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/abudawud/011.sat.html#011.2141]

Tafsir Ibn Kathir, chapter 68:
Imam Ahmad recorded that `A'ishah said, "The Messenger of Allah never struck a servant of his with his hand, nor did he ever hit a woman. He never hit anything with his hand, except for when he was fighting Jihad in the cause of Allah."

Narrated by al-Tirmidhi (3895) and Ibn Majaah (1977), also quoted in Imam Ghazzali's Ihya Ulum-Id-Din, Marriage section:
"The best of you is the one who is best to his wife, and I am the best of you to my wives."

Narrated Mu'awiyah al-Qushayri: "I went to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) and asked him: What do you say (command) about our wives? He replied: Give them food what you have for yourself, and clothe them by which you clothe yourself, and do not beat them, and do not revile them. (Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 11, Marriage (Kitab Al-Nikah), Number 2139)"

Abu Huraira (Allah be pleased with him) reported Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) as saying: "He who believes in Allah and the Hereafter, if he witnesses any matter he should talk in good terms about it or keep quiet. Act kindly towards woman, for woman is created from a rib, and the most crooked part of the rib is its top. If you attempt to straighten it, you will break it, and if you leave it, its crookedness will remain there. So act kindly towards women. (Translation of Sahih Muslim, The Book of Marriage (Kitab Al-Nikah), Book 008, Number 3468)"


now wolfy and papa can pick the ones which fits their agenda and run with it.

 

[CaptainJackson]

It is perfect, just cause it doesn't suit you dosent mean its not.

So then beating is acceptable?

Bro i left islam because of passages like this, it doesn't wash with logic

 

[Boxer]

The quran says that it is clear, complete and final. The hadiths have to come in aND clear up the interpretations?

Bro It's not that simple you can't just read the Quran and be a scholar every verse has meanings.
People study for years to know what verses mean .

 

[Boxer]

So then beating is acceptable?

Bro i left islam because of passages like this, it doesn't wash with logic

You left Islam cause you didn't understand it.
And no it's not ok to beat your wife cause it's not what is said in the Quran.

 

[CaptainJackson]

Bro It's not that simple you can't just read the Quran and be a scholar every verse has meanings.
People study for years to know what verses mean .

And again the quran says it was sent down clear and easy for people to follow gods path.

People have to study for years and memorise thousands of hadiths (which weren't sent from god) doesn't sound clear and easy to me

 

[CaptainJackson]

You left Islam cause you didn't understand it.
And no it's not ok to beat your wife cause it's not what is said in the Quran.

There are a lot of these "experts" who "understand" it in saudi arabia.

Tell me again about their human rights records against women?

 

[Boxer]

And again the quran says it was sent down clear and easy for people to follow gods path.

People have to study for years and memorise thousands of hadiths (which weren't sent from god) doesn't sound clear and easy to me

Lol that's why we have scholars .
Plus how can a Asian man that dosent read or write Arabic understand if he hasn't been thought?

 

[EXPLORER]

Does that offend you?

Ok
Your now silent on the topic
Your silence now tells a lot
And further proves my point

The side you side with and how you moderate is clear

 

[Boxer]

There are a lot of these "experts" who "understand" it in saudi arabia.

Tell me again about their human rights records against women?

Lol your talking about Saudi that is all.