Does Pay need to be supporting with training?

[Tassie Devil]

Clearly Pay's having issues atm with a huge number of aspects at the club which have been thoroughly debated including whether he should stay or not. Let's say that Pay stays, which I think is the most likely scenario.

Are the players getting enough attention in specific areas of training? I know Shifty is helping out, but that's part-time so I'm not sure what impact he can have when he has irregular contacting with the players. What else, apart from Shifty, is the club doing to support Pay?

Is it an idea to bring in a mentor? Someone like Gus Gould? Know people have said he doesn't want to coach anymore, but he coudl perhaps oversee different aspects of our coaching department?

 

[Ribo Flavin]

i dont have the answer..but the way we played against the cows we seem to be lacking in so many departments. does this club even want to win? because we seem miles away from the teams that are continually successful. we are officiated by referees with a hair trigger..i dont believe we are afforded the same latitude that certain other teams get.

 

[speedy2460]

I like your input, but theres one very important fact that you and a lot of others overlook.
The team is sub standard.
No other coach would do any better than Pay.

PAYSTAYS.

 

[CrittaMagic69]

In before some idiot claims no other coach could do better than Pay haha.

 

[flamebouyant]

Round 1 we played well, but lost. Round 2, they completely imploded. But I don't think it had anything to do with ccoaching.people should be giving him credit for hooking the half that no one seems to want in the team, and giving Averilo and wakeham a chance to run the show. But instead most people are just blaming pay for every mistake the players made.
It wasn't poor tactics, it was way too many errors, penalties and missed tackles. Thats on the players.

 

[Chris Harding]

Watching other games this round, and I see every team hitting the line hard and at speed; looking to move the ball on the third and fourth tackle, then a tactical kick or grubber putting fulback and wingers under pressure- with the attack actually arriving at the same time as the ball.

I look at our games, where we are pedestrian and lacking any variation in play. Possession is easily surrendered with unforced errors and cheap penalties. We put ourselves under pressure, and have to ruck the ball out from our own line, then give them an easy run back. Rinse and repeat. Some players are putting in good efforts, but we are not a team.

This is 2018 and 2019 all over again. To be honest, I can't think of any team we can beat this year.

 

[Tassie Devil]

Round 1 we played well, but lost. Round 2, they completely imploded. But I don't think it had anything to do with ccoaching.people should be giving him credit for hooking the half that no one seems to want in the team, and giving Averilo and wakeham a chance to run the show. But instead most people are just blaming pay for every mistake the players made.
It wasn't poor tactics, it was way too many errors, penalties and missed tackles. Thats on the players.

Honestly not trying to make this a Pay Out thread as I really don't think that's an option.

Even though I really don't like Pay as our coach, I do agree with you. Thought we were solid the first week. Stuck to our principles. Attack wasn't great but .... our 5/8 and half were playing together the first time so it's to be expected. 2nd game we were rubbish with dropped balls etc. But you can't really overly blame him?

Question is how can we improve the team when he's coach because he'll be here for some time?

 

[Tassie Devil]

Watching other games this round, and I see every team hitting the line hard and at speed; looking to move the ball on the third and fourth tackle, then a tactical kick or grubber putting fulback and wingers under pressure- with the attack actually arriving at the same time as the ball.

I look at our games, where we are pedestrian and lacking any variation in play. Possession is easily surrendered with unforced errors and cheap penalties. We put ourselves under pressure, and have to ruck the ball out from our own line, then give them an easy run back. Rinse and repeat. Some players are putting in good efforts, but we are not a team.

This is 2018 and 2019 all over again. To be honest, I can't think of any team we can beat this year.

Was this the same both games? Thought the first game the defence was spot on. Agressive. Disciplined. Or is that just my imagination?

 

[CrittaMagic69]

Round 1 we played well, but lost. Round 2, they completely imploded. But I don't think it had anything to do with ccoaching.people should be giving him credit for hooking the half that no one seems to want in the team, and giving Averilo and wakeham a chance to run the show. But instead most people are just blaming pay for every mistake the players made.
It wasn't poor tactics, it was way too many errors, penalties and missed tackles. Thats on the players.

Nobody told Pay to declare Lewis the halfback before a ball was kicked and re-sign him.

 

[EXPLORER]

Pay doesn't have the players right at the minute.
We all knew 2021 was when we would be in a position to get players.

If we are not a top 4 team by 2022 then call for the heads of board members and coaching staff.

Till then, we ought to know already we not going to get much from the team.

Enjoy the rebuild guys and stop looking for a quick fix.
No quick fix will help.

 

[Tassie Devil]

Nobody told Pay to declare Lewis the halfback before a ball was kicked and re-sign him.

God knows why he did that. Really bad mistake imo. However, I do give him a lot of credit for benching him that second half. True measure of the man will be if he drops him completely, which I sincerely hope he does.

 

[Tassie Devil]

Pay doesn't have the players right at the minute.
We all knew 2021 was when we would be in a position to get players.

If we are not a top 4 team by 2022 then call for the heads of board members and coaching staff.

Till then, we ought to know already we not going to get much from the team.

Enjoy the rebuild guys and stop looking for a quick fix.
No quick fix will help.

Then we'll say 2022. Then 2023. It'll just keep going and going.

In my mind the players are good enough to be playing better. Thought that opening round our defence was spot on apart from one unlucky bounce that went to them for their try. We can't keep putting our heads in the sand and saying it'll be better next year. We need to be active.

Clearly there aren't better options out there than Pay. So how can we improve the backroom staff to get more out of this playing roster?

 

[GoTheDoggies]

Pay doesn't have the players right at the minute.
We all knew 2021 was when we would be in a position to get players.

If we are not a top 4 team by 2022 then call for the heads of board members and coaching staff.

Till then, we ought to know already we not going to get much from the team.

Enjoy the rebuild guys and stop looking for a quick fix.
No quick fix will help.

If Tolman and Lewis are still here in 2021
If DWZ is still fullback and Smith is in the centres in 2021
If Meaney is still on the wing in 2021

The rebuild is a total dud.

 

[flamebouyant]

Nobody told Pay to declare Lewis the halfback before a ball was kicked and re-sign him.

Doesnt hooking Lewis prove he can also accept his mistakes?

 

[CrittaMagic69]

God knows why he did that. Really bad mistake imo. However, I do give him a lot of credit for benching him that second half. True measure of the man will be if he drops him completely, which I sincerely hope he does.

He loses all that credit if come round 3 Lewis is again starting in the 7 lol. I'm just so over it, we have looked so unprepared and tactically inept for so long and just out of touch with today's game.

 

[Chris Harding]

Was this the same both games? Thought the first game the defence was spot on. Agressive. Disciplined. Or is that just my imagination?

Our defence is good, but it is not backed up with attack.

The first game, we didn't score a try at all; and in the second game, a try on the bell improved the score; but we never looked threatening apart from the break that gave us the Lewis try. The rest of the game was back to the same old, same old.

If we had a few tries in us, our defence would be the launch pad for winning. On its own, it is just a lot of effort for no result - apart from a lower for and against; but that only counts if we are winning enough games for it to matter.

 

[CrittaMagic69]

Doesnt hooking Lewis prove he can also accept his mistakes?

A mistake that never should've been made. Can you seriously believe that making Lewis the dominant half and on the ball almost as many times as a peak JT is anywhere near a logical decision? Like i said in another comment what if he starts him again next round?

Either way it feels like another wasted preseason with Pay selecting players where he wanted them and the realising it's not working and then spending the bulk of the year shuffling players around again...I'm just over it.

 

[flamebouyant]

Honestly not trying to make this a Pay Out thread as I really don't think that's an option.

Even though I really don't like Pay as our coach, I do agree with you. Thought we were solid the first week. Stuck to our principles. Attack wasn't great but .... our 5/8 and half were playing together the first time so it's to be expected. 2nd game we were rubbish with dropped balls etc. But you can't really overly blame him?

Question is how can we improve the team when he's coach because he'll be here for some time?

I think its a bit of an over reaction to be thinking anything other then, "lets see how the next few weeks/months go". Its only 2 games, and theres a ehole lot of shit going on in the world right now that could have an effect on players. Empty stadiums, social distancing, people dying, the threat of the NRL being cancelled at any moment and salaries being sacrifices because of it. I mean we as a race are facing something thay most of us have never experienced in our lives. So anyone thinking business as usual, sack pay, is kidding themselves.

 

[Tassie Devil]

He loses all that credit if come round 3 Lewis is again starting in the 7 lol. I'm just so over it, we have looked so unprepared and tactically inept for so long and just out of touch with today's game.

Tactically on the defensive side we were spot on that first game. No? Considering the opponents? Mentally we were spot on also, wouldn't you say? Overall for that game I'd say we were pretty well prepared defensively. Of course, in attack it was a different story but lets not forget we had two young halves playing, had lost our winger and ball playing forward a few days before. Honestly think for that game we were alright.

Second game is obviously different but ... we did score more points which is what everyone was asking for?

Don't get me wrong though. I'm worried about the team and what we're going to do but there are some positives there.

 

[Shire Dog]

Watching other games this round, and I see every team hitting the line hard and at speed; looking to move the ball on the third and fourth tackle, then a tactical kick or grubber putting fulback and wingers under pressure- with the attack actually arriving at the same time as the ball.

I look at our games, where we are pedestrian and lacking any variation in play. Possession is easily surrendered with unforced errors and cheap penalties. We put ourselves under pressure, and have to ruck the ball out from our own line, then give them an easy run back. Rinse and repeat. Some players are putting in good efforts, but we are not a team.

This is 2018 and 2019 all over again. To be honest, I can't think of any team we can beat this year.

I just don’t understand why we are still taking sub standard hit ups from tackle 3 to 5 with guys like toleman constantly
It also doesn’t matter what part of the field we are on either,our forwards are not destructive runners like Hass nor do they look to offload for second phase occasionally
The squad has come back from a full off season of training to this
Pressure will mount on everybody especially Dean if things don’t get better soon.
This is a result driven industry.