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'Didn't they get stripped of points?': Ivan Cleary questions Bulldogs' streak record
Ivan Cleary is not getting carried away with Penrith's 10-match winning streak, but also questioned whether Canterbury deserved to hold the NRL record given their 17 wins came the same year they were punished for salary-cap breaches.
The Bulldogs were stripped 37 competition points and fined $500,000 when it was discovered they had spent more than $1 million over the cap in 2002, yet their winning streak remains official.
Cleary's Panthers can make it 11 straight wins when they face the Wests Tigers on Saturday night, and will start short-priced favourites in their remaining regular-season games against Brisbane, Parramatta, North Queensland and the Bulldogs. Only the Eels should threaten their golden run.
Cleary remembers 2002 because it was his last year as a player and his Warriors ended the Bulldogs' streak.
However, he was surprised the streak remained the benchmark given the club was punished for cheating.
"Didn't they get their points stripped?'' Cleary asked. ''I don't think it's fair. How can it be?
"I understand the individual records, but as far as a team goes, how can it be acknowledged when they were cheating?''
NRL historian David Middleton said the Bulldogs' streak was the best in the modern era, but the Roosters held the overall record with 19 wins in 1975.
"The [Bulldogs] record still stands because the games were played and the wins were recognised, they just lost all their competition points,'' Middleton said.
"It's like the Storm, they won the grand finals but were stripped of the titles. You can't say it didn't happen. The players' records still stand and they weren't changed. The wins were recognised, but the penalty was stripping of competition points, not the withdrawal of wins.''
Former representative prop Mark O'Meley featured in the 2002 Canterbury side and said the record deserved to stay. He still has the record framed on a wall in his home.
"Regardless of what went on with the salary cap, it was a special thing and pretty tough to do,'' O'Meley said.
"As a player, it's hard to say we didn't win 17 straight. We had to beat Penrith in the last minute in one game, I had a one-on-one rake on Colin Ward and flicked it to Braith [Anasta] to score to keep the record going. Hazem [el Masri] kicked one from the sideline in another game.
Cronulla won 15 in a row in 2016. Melbourne also did it across the 2012 and 2013 seasons.
Cleary said Penrith's winning streak had not been discussed, and the senior players had helped keep the group level-headed.
"They're just enjoying preparing,'' Cleary said. "We prepare to give ourselves [victory] each week. That's how it started and it's still going.'
Cleary awoke to the headlines in the Herald that Tigers chief executive Justin Pascoe was still upset about the way he walked out on the joint venture at the end of 2018, and accused his former friend of ''disrespecting'' the club.
Cleary, who blew a kiss to a disgruntled Tigers fan from the coach's box after a tense round-eight win, said he had already spoken about wishing his time at the club could have ended better.
"I made my comments pretty clear about that, pretty clear at the time, and I don't want to add any more fuel to any fire that may be brewing for this game - I'm up to my quota in terms of promoting this game in the past, so I'll leave it at that,'' Cleary said.
He also made it clear there was no desire to let Matt Burton walk out on the club to join Canterbury next year. Cleary knows Burton will come in handy should there be an injury to starting halves Nathan Cleary or Jarome Luai. Because of the rate of his growth, Burton is now referred to as 'John Sutton', a reference to the Souths legend who outgrew five-eighth and played in the forwards.
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Ivan Cleary is not getting carried away with Penrith's 10-match winning streak, but also questioned whether Canterbury deserved to hold the NRL record given their 17 wins came the same year they were punished for salary-cap breaches.
The Bulldogs were stripped 37 competition points and fined $500,000 when it was discovered they had spent more than $1 million over the cap in 2002, yet their winning streak remains official.
Cleary's Panthers can make it 11 straight wins when they face the Wests Tigers on Saturday night, and will start short-priced favourites in their remaining regular-season games against Brisbane, Parramatta, North Queensland and the Bulldogs. Only the Eels should threaten their golden run.
Cleary remembers 2002 because it was his last year as a player and his Warriors ended the Bulldogs' streak.
However, he was surprised the streak remained the benchmark given the club was punished for cheating.
"Didn't they get their points stripped?'' Cleary asked. ''I don't think it's fair. How can it be?
"It's like saying Melbourne should keep their [2007 and 2009] premierships. Did [sprinter] Ben Johnson keep his [1988 Olympics] gold medal?
"I understand the individual records, but as far as a team goes, how can it be acknowledged when they were cheating?''
NRL historian David Middleton said the Bulldogs' streak was the best in the modern era, but the Roosters held the overall record with 19 wins in 1975.
"The [Bulldogs] record still stands because the games were played and the wins were recognised, they just lost all their competition points,'' Middleton said.
"It's like the Storm, they won the grand finals but were stripped of the titles. You can't say it didn't happen. The players' records still stand and they weren't changed. The wins were recognised, but the penalty was stripping of competition points, not the withdrawal of wins.''
Former representative prop Mark O'Meley featured in the 2002 Canterbury side and said the record deserved to stay. He still has the record framed on a wall in his home.
"Regardless of what went on with the salary cap, it was a special thing and pretty tough to do,'' O'Meley said.
"As a player, it's hard to say we didn't win 17 straight. We had to beat Penrith in the last minute in one game, I had a one-on-one rake on Colin Ward and flicked it to Braith [Anasta] to score to keep the record going. Hazem [el Masri] kicked one from the sideline in another game.
"As players, we didn't know who the board spent money on. I was proud of that record.''
Cronulla won 15 in a row in 2016. Melbourne also did it across the 2012 and 2013 seasons.
Cleary said Penrith's winning streak had not been discussed, and the senior players had helped keep the group level-headed.
"They're just enjoying preparing,'' Cleary said. "We prepare to give ourselves [victory] each week. That's how it started and it's still going.'
Cleary awoke to the headlines in the Herald that Tigers chief executive Justin Pascoe was still upset about the way he walked out on the joint venture at the end of 2018, and accused his former friend of ''disrespecting'' the club.
Cleary, who blew a kiss to a disgruntled Tigers fan from the coach's box after a tense round-eight win, said he had already spoken about wishing his time at the club could have ended better.
"I made my comments pretty clear about that, pretty clear at the time, and I don't want to add any more fuel to any fire that may be brewing for this game - I'm up to my quota in terms of promoting this game in the past, so I'll leave it at that,'' Cleary said.
He also made it clear there was no desire to let Matt Burton walk out on the club to join Canterbury next year. Cleary knows Burton will come in handy should there be an injury to starting halves Nathan Cleary or Jarome Luai. Because of the rate of his growth, Burton is now referred to as 'John Sutton', a reference to the Souths legend who outgrew five-eighth and played in the forwards.
'Didn't they get stripped of points?': Ivan Cleary questions Bulldogs' streak record
As Penrith chase an 11th straight win, their coach asked how Canterbury can still hold the record of 17 wins given they cheated the cap in 2002.
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