News Dean Pay’s future ‘on Bulldogs radar’ as Kent fumes he was set up to fail

vegny

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They extended his contract. Thats rubbish about the old board appointed him and the new board does not really want him and doesnt give support.
 

B-Train

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True, maybe not from a specific coaching perspective, but your club has a new board and has had a high turnover of players recently. I suppose what I'm saying is stability at this stage is more important that winning if, IF, you are trying to attract a new and better coach.
The Warriors have had stability with Kearney and they struggle to sign players. Saints have had stability for years with McGregor and they haven't signed anyone of note since overpaying for Hunt and Norman.

There's no point having stability when you're seen as a club with no ambition or who is happy to make up the numbers. The stench of a losing culture and lack of progress is far more damaging than whatever stability brings.
 

surfdog

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With significant decisions to be made around the roster in the context having money to spend going forward, now is the time you have to decide if you think Pay is the man to do this.Contract is up so its either a new contract or a new coach.
 

KambahOne

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The Warriors have had stability with Kearney and I don't see they struggle to sign players.

Saints have had stability with McGregor and they haven't signed anyone of note since overpaying for Hunt and Norman.

There's no point having stability when you're seen as a club with no ambition or who is happy to make up the numbers. The stench of a losing culture and lack of progress is far more damaging than whatever stability brings.
Yeah valid points, but your situation is different to those clubs. Their problems are systemic in that the Warriors are content just being in the comp and Mary has been protected by two reviews and the Illawarra faction of the Saints board. Your club has changed boards, coaches, recruitment and retention practices, trainers and spending priorities with the aim to be better. But it takes time, even when you get to where you want to be as a club, it will take time to bed those new practices down and see the results.
 

GrogDog

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That would be fine if Pay actually had a plan or a style of football, he doesn’t, it’s not evidenced in our performances nor has he ever been able to articulate it in an interview or press conference. Trying hard isn’t a game plan.
I wasn't saying he did have a plan, just that the coach should have these freedoms. The fact that he doesn't have a plan as you said should answer everything we need moving forward. If the answer is that Pay doesn't then why the fuk are we wasting time with him?
 

DinkumDog

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Two coaches in 8 years then..Hasler and Pay. Hardly a revolving door.
Atta boy, just sticking to the facts :-).
I don’t think anyone used the term revolving door but in referring to Kambah’s post he said ‘upheaval’ and I don’t think it specifically referred to the coaching role but the club as a whole (board, executives etc). Despite the previous board having hired both Pay and Hill, there has been little change apart from a couple of the directors and the four football department staff whilst the tunnel was endured. I think what Kambah was saying is that’s a good thing and upheaval now when we are so close to the end of the tunnel is counter productive. I happen to agree, many won’t.
 

B-Train

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Yeah valid points, but your situation is different to those clubs. Their problems are systemic in that the Warriors are content just being in the comp and Mary has been protected by two reviews and the Illawarra faction of the Saints board. Your club has changed boards, coaches, recruitment and retention practices, trainers and spending priorities with the aim to be better. But it takes time, even when you get to where you want to be as a club, it will take time to bed those new practices down and see the results.
No one is disputing the circumstances. Pay didn't inherit the best situation. But if it was a better situation he wouldn't have got the job as he wasn't qualified..

Every coaching job in the NRL is precious and Pay was fortunate to be a head coach at all, let alone for three seasons with the record he has.

The fact that the club is further regressing when 2018 should have been the low point is an indictment on Pay. Three years in, a coach should be making progress with the team or at least developing youngsters. Pay has done neither.
 

KambahOne

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No one is disputing the circumstances. Pay didn't inherit the best situation. But if it was a better situation he wouldn't have got the job as he wasn't qualified..

Every coaching job in the NRL is precious and Pay was fortunate to be a head coach at all, let alone for three seasons with the record he has.

The fact that the club is further regressing when 2018 should have been the low point is an indictment on Pay. Three years in, a coach should be making progress with the team or at least developing youngsters. Pay has done neither.
Again valid points, and I agree had your club been in a better position Pay may not have gotten the job. He was only ever a good assistant imo. But he's been hired to get you through this bleak period and understandable it's frustrating, but technically you're still in the bleak period and as such Pay should be retained as coach until you're better able to offer a good coach a position and funds to plan and recruit a squad moving forward.
 

Glenn L

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I feel for Pay and respect what he has done for the club previously as a player but as a coach he knew what he was getting himself into. Surely he knew the sorry state of the salary cap and that acceptable results would be hard to come by. I think he was hoping for some kind of cinderella story where he could coach a group of second string players to the top. We can all see how that went. The decision to replace Pay looks to be a no-brainer but where do they find a quality coach to replace him who can also bring the long list of quality players that the club desperately needs?
 

KambahOne

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Your posts are usually well articulated (for a chook) but I’d like to hear your unbiased justification about how Pay is “doing his best”?
Pressure should always be on an NRL coach though and nobody deserves a free ride in such a well paid job
Agreed, but Pay was hired as much for his Bulldogs DNA as he was to oversee you through this really trough period. Pay is not dumb, maybe he even realises he's not cut out for a top coaching role, but hes shown he'll shoulder the burden of getting you through this period and imo he should be given that accolade for later on if nothing else. In 10 years time he may well be given a standing ovation walking onto the stage at your GF winning function as the one who saw you through this period?
 

CrittaMagic69

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Agreed, but Pay was hired as much for his Bulldogs DNA as he was to oversee you through this really trough period. Pay is not dumb, maybe he even realises he's not cut out for a top coaching role, but hes shown he'll shoulder the burden of getting you through this period and imo he should be given that accolade for later on if nothing else. In 10 years time he may well be given a standing ovation walking onto the stage at your GF winning function as the one who saw you through this period?
He is not dumb? He has failed to select Wakeham at halfback for a single game, that's pretty fucking dumb :tearsofjoy:
 

sgodllubsti

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pay inherited a mess that part is not his doing nor his fault.

pays issue revolves around how poorly the team plays, lack of any attacking style, terrible team structure, playing players out of position, and his willingness to take a flogging one week and stick with that same team week in werk out with the same result

our recruiting is abysmal potential players have little faith in pay or our board

our board is as poor as our playing roster, no one on the board can lead us out of this mess, nor are able to attract the significant signings we require
 

KambahOne

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He is not dumb? He has failed to select Wakeham at halfback for a single game, that's pretty fucking dumb :tearsofjoy:
I'm not prepared to hang my hat on that one decision. He may not be the best coach, but he'd be picking the best at his disposal so I think that says a lot about Wakeham.
 

CrittaMagic69

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I'm not prepared to hang my hat on that one decision. He may not be the best coach, but he'd be picking the best at his disposal so I think that says a lot about Wakeham.
How much are the dogs paying you?
 

liljohny

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Your board putting pressure on Pay now is a bad look imo. Scapegoating the coach when he's doing his best with that he's got is a red flag to any potential coach. Your board/CEO needs to be out front taking flack for the coach and players or at least taking some pressure off. I realise you guys are a demanding bunch, but constant upheaval achieves nothing.
Piss off cheat
 

wendog33

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Your board putting pressure on Pay now is a bad look imo. Scapegoating the coach when he's doing his best with that he's got is a red flag to any potential coach. Your board/CEO needs to be out front taking flack for the coach and players or at least taking some pressure off. I realise you guys are a demanding bunch, but constant upheaval achieves nothing.
If our coach was "doing his best with that he's got" as you claim, there'd be no scapegoating or pressure. Roosters would be the very last Club to accept this situation we are presently in.

We don't know if he has lost the dressing sheds and the Board/CEO already know it...maybe that is part of it, together with the coaching and poor results. No club can blunder along being unsuccessful and not do anything to fix it. Apparently waiting another year isn't in the current plan...but who knows the truth.

All it does is highlights our coaching situation that Pay seems unable to fix and our roster situation that the CEO and Board haven't fixed.

All of them carry the responsibility and all carry the blame. You want the job; you wear the consequences of failure.
 

Spoonman84

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Granted it's media speculation at this point about Pay's future but maybe the board does have something up their sleeve with a coach lined up? The board can't afford to stuff this up.

The coaching situation will make is the making or breaking of the current club's admin.

Do they keep Pay and he miraculously turns it around with new signings next year or does he drive the club further into the ground? The other option is making a coaching change and in that case they have to find the right coach.

The training wheels are off now they need to make the right calls we cannot afford anymore seasons like the last 4.
 

KambahOne

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If our coach was "doing his best with that he's got" as you claim, there'd be no scapegoating or pressure. Roosters would be the very last Club to accept this situation we are presently in.

We don't know if he has lost the dressing sheds and the Board/CEO already know it...maybe that is part of it, together with the coaching and poor results. No club can blunder along being unsuccessful and not do anything to fix it. Apparently waiting another year isn't in the current plan...but who knows the truth.

All it does is highlights our coaching situation that Pay seems unable to fix and our roster situation that the CEO and Board haven't fixed.

All of them carry the responsibility and all carry the blame. You want the job; you wear the consequences of failure.
Ok but lets say you change coaches and get Bennett next month . He will only be able to do what Pay is doing and that is trying to get the best out of the player he's got. Granted he may be more attractive to potential recruits, but you still have cap restrictions and money is as equal to who is the coach in most player decisions on who to play for.

It's just my opinion, but you'd be better off leaving Pay in the seat until you are free to enter the market in a big way and that way your club is far more attractive to a potential coach.
 

Dog Goneit

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They extended his contract. Thats rubbish about the old board appointed him and the new board does not really want him and doesnt give support.
What is the other option? bring in another unproven coach for the same results - that would be a death nail for the administration. Its not like a bona fide coach was willing to take us on until we clear the cap squeeze (which is now) and start getting some recruits on board.
 
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