Coronavirus.

[south of heaven]

I made a comment much like this to someone when I was talking about mask wearing. They are restrictive ( well the three layer cloth ones I use) but you can still smell things......Some protection but not 100% if you can smell stuff. Like a condom with a pin hole....

Man who has pin hole in condom has little prick

 

[Hacky McAxe]

If it turns out that the vaccine doesn't stop transmission, is there any reason that a healthy person would want to take the vaccine?

If it turns out that the vaccine provides 0% protection against transmission then, no. You shouldn't be forced to take a vaccine that will provide no benefit.

The reason I'm asking is because this is my current situation. I'm young'ish, fit and healthy.

I've always taken vaccines in the past including the flu jab, but given the last 12 months I've actually started researching a bit about vaccines which now has me questioning whether I should continue taking the annual flu jab and heavily questioning what incentive I have for taking the COVID vaccine.

This all depends what you mean by "research", and it all depends what your sources are and how apt you are at interpreting the sources.

I would recommend going to University and studying about 10 years of immunology. Then you should be able to answer your own question.

 

[Dawgfather]

If it turns out that the vaccine provides 0% protection against transmission then, no. You shouldn't be forced to take a vaccine that will provide no benefit.

Shouldn't people be aware of whether or not the vaccine stops transmission before they have 2x needles put into them?

 

[Hacky McAxe]

Still scary stuff though the way it started and its progression......The relation of deaths to the safety of the actual vaccine is the biggie.......

Yep. It's important to find out why. All signs are pointing to it just being a coincidence. It wasn't 30 people in the same place with the same vaccine timeline dying. It was 30 old and sick people taking the vaccine and dying some time later. And that was 30 out of around 30,000 people. It was also within the statistical norm of people dying. So it sounds like they would have died with or without the vaccine.

This is the unfortunately effect that leads to anti-vax conspiracy theory. Someone takes a vaccine, they die. It's not necessarily the vaccine that killed them, and it's usually not (some have died from vaccines though), but it's enough to build a conspiracy that vaccines are dangerous. Even though they're statistically not dangerous.

But there's always a risk. There has been deaths from allergic reactions to vaccines. There has been also been auto-immune disease from vaccines, life long seizures, brain damage. These things happen but they are very rare. Ultra rare. And while it can happen, not using vaccines is guaranteed to kill millions more.

 

[Natboy]

Yeah, I tend to agree. As I said, I can understand why they go over the top, I just don't necessarily agree with it.

Suffice to say, it's a decision I'm glad I don't have to make. Imagine being the one who says that we should pull back restrictions only to have the virus overrun Australia. That person would cop all the blame for it. But right now they're copping all the blame for not relaxing restrictions. Good old risk balance scenario that can give you nightmares.

100% agree mate.

Not all politicians can have so much blood on their hands and still mesmerise people like chairman Dan

 

[Hacky McAxe]

Shouldn't people be aware of whether or not the vaccine stops transmission before they have 2x needles put into them?

Only if there's a risk. "Not preventing transmission" isn't a risk as it doesn't cause potential harm. If there was a chance you could suffer major side effects from the vaccine and we didn't know if it prevented transmission then it should be put on hold until we know. But right now there's only minor side effects and a decent chance it at least reduces transmission. So it becomes a risk/safety analysis.

There's a higher safety and lower risk if you do take the vaccine.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

I made a comment much like this to someone when I was talking about mask wearing. They are restrictive ( well the three layer cloth ones I use) but you can still smell things......Some protection but not 100% if you can smell stuff. Like a condom with a pin hole....

Yesterday I pointed out to the Mrs than masks are dangerous for me. While wearing masks the only thing I can smell is sweet stuff. Like donuts. So it just makes me crave sweet stuff.

 

[Dawgfather]

Only if there's a risk. "Not preventing transmission" isn't a risk as it doesn't cause potential harm.

But shouldn't people understand if there's a benefit to taking a vaccine before they stick 2 needles in them? Right now there is the real possibility that everyone will take the vaccine only to discover afterwards that it was entirely pointless because it doesn't stop transmission anyway.

 

[Blue_boost]

https://www.kogan.com/au/buy/kogan-premium-smart-wash-dry-remote-control-electric-toilet-seat/?utm_source=MailList&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20210124_EDM_1_AU_HLTH_HLTH_SMARTTOILET

What a great idea, no need to buy heaps of toilet paper? Japanese technology. Washes your arse and heats it up ? Remote control too? Could you want anything more?

 

[Hacky McAxe]

But shouldn't people understand if there's a benefit to taking a vaccine before they stick 2 needles in them? Right now there is the real possibility that everyone will take the vaccine only to discover afterwards that it was entirely pointless because it doesn't stop transmission anyway.

Yep. It's possible. But as I said, it comes down to a risk analysis. If there's a greater risk not taking the vaccine then taking the vaccine is the more logical conclusion.

Ideally we would wait until we know for sure but that's also part of the risk analysis that results in staying with what we have now (closed borders, restrictions) until the vaccines are found to be effective.

 

[Dawgfather]

Yep. It's possible. But as I said, it comes down to a risk analysis. If there's a greater risk not taking the vaccine then taking the vaccine is the more logical conclusion.

Ideally we would wait until we know for sure but that's also part of the risk analysis that results in staying with what we have now (closed borders, restrictions) until the vaccines are found to be effective.

Fair enough.

My own personal opinion is that the field of medicine and science should be far more scientific before they offer up tools (vaccines) or other medicines as something which they recommend to be taken by 100% of the population.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

Fair enough.

My own personal opinion is that the field of medicine and science should be far more scientific before they offer up tools (vaccines) or other medicines as something which they recommend to be taken by 100% of the population.

Definitely. The problem is the timeline. There's no time to be thorough when it comes to non-safety related aspects.

 

[south of heaven]

https://www.kogan.com/au/buy/kogan-premium-smart-wash-dry-remote-control-electric-toilet-seat/?utm_source=MailList&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20210124_EDM_1_AU_HLTH_HLTH_SMARTTOILET

What a great idea, no need to buy heaps of toilet paper? Japanese technology. Washes your arse and heats it up ? Remote control too? Could you want anything more?

You ever used one?

 

[SPEARTAKVIDREFS]

In all seriousness can someone put forward the argument for why the following hypothetical person would want take the vaccine?

Age: 30
Existing medical conditions: zero
General health: well above average fitness and overall health
Outlook on COVID: Not overly fussed about it, but wouldn't want their parents to catch it and die

Not an argument as such, just my thoughts. I am older than 30 too but my age is irrelevant to my thoughts below.
Just the word argument in the case of trying to look at something subjectively seems wrong to me but anyways.....

I wouldn't take a vaccine if offered today because of where we sit numbers wise in the community with rona.
But the last point Outlook on Covid is the consideration

Considerations would be
a. If there was a massive outbreak
b. Mother inlaw is over 80+ living with us so it would be irresponsible for me not to consider a vaccine.

The reason why I wouldn't want to take a vaccine today is because without research my head tells me
a. % of effectiveness?
b. Will current vaccine be effective for future strains? Obviuosly no-one can answer that question.
c. Side affects?
d. How the fuck can there be a vaccine for a virus thats only been with us for not even 2 years, I thought it takes 5-10 years for a vaccine.

I have no facts to any of this and I haven't researched anything. Thats because at present I dont need to.
There is time before I qualify for a vaccine. There will be many questions/issues raised in the media/society/whatever before then.

If/when the time comes to take a vaccine, Ill do the research. Ill do my best to set aside any preconceived ideas I already have so that I can be clear to make an informed decision.

 

[Dawgfather]

It was also within the statistical norm of people dying. So it sounds like they would have died with or without the vaccine.

If you change the topic of these sentences from vaccines to COVID, the parallels are coincidentally similar.

"So it sounds like they would have died with or without the vaccine"

Many people who die from COVID would have died with or without COVID

"It was also within the statistical norm of people dying"

The CDC website isn't working right now for me but at a point in time around 2-3 months ago, the excess death by age across America was consistent with the average deaths for the previous 5 years, and for some age categories (i believe under 25), the number of excess deaths was significantly lower than the average for the previous 5 years.

 

[Mr 95%]

Again no local transmissions..unfortunately low testing numbers. Keep Vigilant! (Sounds so Orwellian!)

 

[Rodzilla]

Acting NSW Premier "The Vaccine is just one part of NSW Coronavirus strategy"

if its just a part of the strategy then it shouldnt be called a vaccine tbh, this lady is enjoying the headlines and profile

 

[Rodzilla]

when is the last person to die from this situation and why are people acting like people are dying

 

[Dawgfather]

when is the last person to die from this situation and why are people acting like people are dying

Spot on.

Not even sure when the last person in NSW died from it but last time I checked (3 weeks ago) there was only 1 person in NSW in hospital with COVID, and they weren't even in ICU.

I'm assuming it's been 2-3 months since anyone died from COVID.

 

[DinkumDog]

Not all politicians can have so much blood on their hands and still mesmerise people like chairman Dan

Chairman Dan made the Hottest 100 list! .