Coronavirus.

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Dawgfather

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On this point, there was a good article yesterday where Fauci praised Australia for their success combating Covid-19, but also pointed out that it wouldn't work for American.
Yep read that. I find it hard to take Fauci seriously, but I do agree parts of what Aus has done seems to have worked quite well.
 

KambahOne

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I've said more than a few times that the U.S could have handled this better. But every country in the world is essentially in that category. Some have been less exposed to the virus by good fortune and some by good management and some a combination of both.

It's easy to think every country can handle the virus to the point where we are at in Australia right now, with next to zero local cases.

But that would be to assume that every country has thousands of kilometres of ocean surrounding them.

Every land locked country in the world is messed up. Take a look at Belgium - by a LONG WAY - they have the worst death stats in the world. What's interesting about Belgium? It's surrounded by 4 other countries. It's also part of the EU which was founded on the basis of free movement and trade amongst member countries.

There is no good solution to a virus like this except for a vaccination, which is apparently within a couple of weeks of being able to be administered in the U.S.
Again you try and re-write history with self delusional bullshit.

No country deliberately ignored this virus like Trump's america.
No world leader demonstrated such wilful ignorance of the facts as Trump.
No world leader conned, and yes I do mean conned, their population into believing COVID was less dangerous than experts correctly stated.
No leader undermined their medical experts like Trump.
No world leader systematically lied about how the virus was tracking in their country like Trump.

You can and regularly do jam your head up your own arse and ignore these facts and you will again. But don't try and re-write what has occurred just to lessen the detrimental impact Trump has had on the country and population he continually declares he loves.

Donald Trump is the reason the US is in the situation it is and none of your diversionary bullshit will change that fact.
 

wendog33

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Yes and no. You are right to flag this because he is on record stating masks are good. The problem is he prevaricates, he then says something different, or refuses to wear one himself.

It has been noted by many through out the Trump presidency that you get "reading from the page" Trump, where he says what is advisable, and you get realDonaldTrump, where, much like his twitter account, he says what he really thinks. Trump followers quickly learned, consciously or unconsciously, to ignore the reading from the page Trump.
Fair summation of the Orange Man and why he acts, and says, what he does with his handling of C19 and other issues?

Harvard Professor should have a fair idea though obviously must be a lefty, commo Demonrat?

 

Dawgfather

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Again you try and re-write history with self delusional bullshit.

No country deliberately ignored this virus like Trump's america.
No world leader demonstrated such wilful ignorance of the facts as Trump.
No world leader conned, and yes I do mean conned, their population into believing COVID was less dangerous than experts correctly stated.
No leader undermined their medical experts like Trump.
No world leader systematically lied about how the virus was tracking in their country like Trump.

You can and regularly do jam your head up your own arse and ignore these facts and you will again. But don't try and re-write what has occurred just to lessen the detrimental impact Trump has had on the country and population he continually declares he loves.

Donald Trump is the reason the US is in the situation it is and none of your diversionary bullshit will change that fact.
What do you mean by deliberately ignored? Do you mean like how every institution in America (in the early days) was telling people not to worry? Like Nancy Pelosi telling people to 'come out to Chinatown' along with other democrats including the NY Mayor.

How do you measure whether a world leader has demonstrated 'wilful ignorance'? Is this measurable or just your opinion?

Telling people to not panic is not conning your population. It's the exact same leadership stance taken during terrorist incidents which is to tell people to not panic, but to be aware of what's going on and take personal responsibility for your own safety. As if people could have been ignorant to the potential danger given the world essentially shut down from March onwards.

Can you explain what you mean by Trump lying about how the virus was 'tracking'?
 

Hacky McAxe

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What do you mean by deliberately ignored? Do you mean like how every institution in America (in the early days) was telling people not to worry? Like Nancy Pelosi telling people to 'come out to Chinatown' along with other democrats including the NY Mayor.

How do you measure whether a world leader has demonstrated 'wilful ignorance'? Is this measurable or just your opinion?

Telling people to not panic is not conning your population. It's the exact same leadership stance taken during terrorist incidents which is to tell people to not panic, but to be aware of what's going on and take personal responsibility for your own safety. As if people could have been ignorant to the potential danger given the world essentially shut down from March onwards.

Can you explain what you mean by Trump lying about how the virus was 'tracking'?
"When President Donald Trump began talking to the public about coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) in February and March, scientists were stunned at his seeming lack of understanding of the threat. We assumed that he either refused to listen to the White House briefings that must have been occurring or that he was being deliberately sheltered from information to create plausible deniability for federal inaction. Now, because famed Washington Post journalist Bob Woodward recorded him, we can hear Trump's own voice saying that he understood precisely that severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) was deadly and spread through the air. As he was playing down the virus to the public, Trump was not confused or inadequately briefed: He flat-out lied, repeatedly, about science to the American people. These lies demoralized the scientific community and cost countless lives in the United States"

 

KambahOne

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What do you mean by deliberately ignored? Do you mean like how every institution in America (in the early days) was telling people not to worry? Like Nancy Pelosi telling people to 'come out to Chinatown' along with other democrats including the NY Mayor.

How do you measure whether a world leader has demonstrated 'wilful ignorance'? Is this measurable or just your opinion?

Telling people to not panic is not conning your population. It's the exact same leadership stance taken during terrorist incidents which is to tell people to not panic, but to be aware of what's going on and take personal responsibility for your own safety. As if people could have been ignorant to the potential danger given the world essentially shut down from March onwards.

Can you explain what you mean by Trump lying about how the virus was 'tracking'?
I can answer all the above with one fact that you will ignore and excuse and deliberately distract from, but it won't matter to the fact. Only days before the election at one of his rallies Trump said about the COVID virus "we are rounding the corner" the country then went on a 28 day period of over 100,000 cases a day. Even in his latest interview with Pox News he stated "we have handled the virus better than most other countries".

These are bare faced lies deliberately said to try and lessen his responsibility for the situation his country finds itself in.

Now if you're not going to acknowledge those facts, than fark off as I don't want to waste my time explaining shit to you over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.
 

Dawgfather

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I can answer all the above with one fact that you will ignore and excuse and deliberately distract from, but it won't matter to the fact. Only days before the election at one of his rallies Trump said about the COVID virus "we are rounding the corner" the country then went on a 28 day period of over 100,000 cases a day. Even in his latest interview with Pox News he stated "we have handled the virus better than most other countries".

These are bare faced lies deliberately said to try and lessen his responsibility for the situation his country finds itself in.

Now if you're not going to acknowledge those facts, than fark off as I don't want to waste my time explaining shit to you over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.
Anyone's interpretation of what Trump said (in your quote), or at any point in the last four years depends on how you interpret Trump.

Are you supposed to take each word extremely literally and down to the exact word and take it all as gospel? Of course not, that's quite clear to anyone who has been observing U.S. politics over the course of the last four years. Trump isn't someone who speaks literally, frequently.

People also said Trump was lying or incompetent (or both) when he said he would have vaccines ready in 2020 or even in early 2021. It would seem (at least as of today) that Trump was entirely right on the issue of vaccines. Which does seem to be an amazing feat given this has never happened so quickly in human history.

As for 'rounding the corner' - that would seem to be a reasonable expression given vaccines are forecast to start being delivered within the next 3 weeks (prior to Christmas).

Conceivably by the middle of 2021, anyone who is high risk in America will likely be vaccinated, quite possibly resulting in next to no deaths by 3rd and 4th quarter 2021.
 

Hacky McAxe

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Congratulations, you can google and read numbers from a table. Everyone knows where the total numbers are at.

However, it's not very useful to simply use total death or infection stats. A country like New Zealand is never going to have the same counts as America (or India, or any other country with a larger population). You have to use per capita to allow for any meaningful comparison.
Meaning the virus hasn't spread throughout the whole country.

But with anti-mask, anti-lockdown people like you... I'm sure they'll get there.
 

Hacky McAxe

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Anyone's interpretation of what Trump said (in your quote), or at any point in the last four years depends on how you interpret Trump.

Are you supposed to take each word extremely literally and down to the exact word and take it all as gospel? Of course not, that's quite clear to anyone who has been observing U.S. politics over the course of the last four years. Trump isn't someone who speaks literally, frequently.

People also said Trump was lying or incompetent (or both) when he said he would have vaccines ready in 2020 or even in early 2021. It would seem (at least as of today) that Trump was entirely right on the issue of vaccines. Which does seem to be an amazing feat given this has never happened so quickly in human history.

As for 'rounding the corner' - that would seem to be a reasonable expression given vaccines are forecast to start being delivered within the next 3 weeks (prior to Christmas).

Conceivably by the middle of 2021, anyone who is high risk in America will likely be vaccinated, quite possibly resulting in next to no deaths by 3rd and 4th quarter 2021.
"This may be the most shameful moment in the history of U.S. science policy.

In an interview with Woodward on 7 February 2020, Trump said he knew that COVID-19 was more lethal than the flu and that it spread through the air. “This is deadly stuff,” he said. But on 9 March, he tweeted that the “common flu” was worse than COVID-19, while economic advisor Larry Kudlow and presidential counselor Kellyanne Conway assured the public that the virus was contained. On 19 March, Trump told Woodward that he did not want to level with the American people about the danger of the virus. “I wanted to always play it down,” he said, “I still like playing it down.” Playing it down meant lying about the fact that he knew the country was in grave danger.

It also meant silencing health officials who tried to tell the truth. On 25 February, Nancy Messonnier, director of the National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases (of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention), said, “It's not so much a question of if this will happen anymore, but rather more a question of exactly when this will happen and how many people in this country will have severe illness.” She was right and Trump knew it. But he shut her down. He also tried to control messaging from Anthony Fauci, the nation's foremost leader on infectious diseases. Trump's supporters insisted that Fauci and Messonnier were not being muzzled, but now we have clear evidence in emails that they were."
 

KambahOne

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Anyone's interpretation of what Trump said (in your quote), or at any point in the last four years depends on how you interpret Trump.

Are you supposed to take each word extremely literally and down to the exact word and take it all as gospel? Of course not, that's quite clear to anyone who has been observing U.S. politics over the course of the last four years. Trump isn't someone who speaks literally, frequently.

People also said Trump was lying or incompetent (or both) when he said he would have vaccines ready in 2020 or even in early 2021. It would seem (at least as of today) that Trump was entirely right on the issue of vaccines. Which does seem to be an amazing feat given this has never happened so quickly in human history.

As for 'rounding the corner' - that would seem to be a reasonable expression given vaccines are forecast to start being delivered within the next 3 weeks (prior to Christmas).

Conceivably by the middle of 2021, anyone who is high risk in America will likely be vaccinated, quite possibly resulting in next to no deaths by 3rd and 4th quarter 2021.
Ok Teflon Brain, whatever you say Teflon Brain, it's obvious no fact has a chance in hell of sticking to your Teflon Brain so I'll hand over to the next farking idiot to try and debate with you Teflon Brain.
 

Dawgfather

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Meaning the virus hasn't spread throughout the whole country.

But with anti-mask, anti-lockdown people like you... I'm sure they'll get there.
hehe, use of the word anti plays well.

I'm pro-health measures that are well proven. I am supportive of vaccines although I think more testing should continue to be done, given the unprecedented speed by which they were developed.

Of course I'm anti lock down. Lock downs are well established to be ineffective and also cause more harm to health, economics and societies than they solve.

I'm supportive of social distancing where possible but I'm also concious of the fact that draconian lock down and health measures can cause more economy, social and health harm than they pretend to protect us from.
 

south of heaven

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As for 'rounding the corner' - that would seem to be a reasonable expression given vaccines are forecast to start being delivered within the next 3 weeks (prior to Christmas).
lol he didn't make that statement the other day it was a load of shit even you admitted to that want me to dig you're quote up?
 

Dawgfather

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Ok Teflon Brain, whatever you say Teflon Brain, it's obvious no fact has a chance in hell of sticking to your Teflon Brain so I'll hand over to the next farking idiot to try and debate with you Teflon Brain.
It says a lot about someone that they get so aggressive and patronising simply after reading a view that doesn't agree with theirs. Good luck buddy.
 

Dawgfather

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lol he didn't make that statement the other day it was a load of shit even you admitted to that want me to dig you're quote up?
All I am saying is that in relation to Trump's comments suggesting that things are going to improve, I don't have a problem with them given that there are vaccines about to be delivered.
 

south of heaven

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All I am saying is that in relation to Trump's comments suggesting that things are going to improve, I don't have a problem with them given that there are vaccines about to be delivered.
So is Xmas he has made absolute bullshit shit statements throughout the whole virus of course their will be a vaccine but just palming it off is a total load of shit,
And you are starting to come a bit undon yourself on your own thoughts, go back to the election thread and check your own words when I quoted you on " turning the corner "
 
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