Religious Discussion Thread

[dogwhisperer]

Oh, yeah? Of course people should respect others but that also needs to be earnt a little too.

Think it's hard for most people when they see someone defending rapists and paedos. Hard to have a rational discussion after that in all honesty, so can understand why people fly off the handle a little bit

In all honesty, it's disappointing that more people aren't having a go at his views tho imagine people have just got used to his dribble?

I don’t think he’s defending rapists and pedos mate. The whole time through he is only defending the church even though he may seem to be defending pedos and rapists.
There are 415,000 catholic priests throughout the whole world. According to some statistics 4% are pedos maybe up to 20,000 priests. 96% are actually good priests. These are very rough figures but you get what I’m trying to say.
The Catholic Church has 1.34 billion members around the world and not all identify as Roman Catholic. There are 23 Rites of the Catholic faith, including and not limited to Roman Catholicism. There are the Maronites, The Melkites, Chaldeans and 20 other rites each with their own traditions are history.

While it is true that there have been many priests and bishops who are/were pedos and also bishops in higher authority who have harbored and protected them, the majority of these entered into the priesthood in the mid 20th century as a way to hide behind the collar and seek protection from outside authorities/law enforcers. Yes, they wore their priestly collars but they had other intentions. It is very very very unfortunate that these disgusting activities were allowed to go on for a very long time and the pain and devastation it has caused victims and their families. It is also unfortunate that the whole of the Catholic Church worldwide is branded the same way or tainted with the same brush because millions of church members, bishops, priests, nuns, monks, friars, brothers and the like give up their whole lives serving the needs of the entire human race. The Catholic Church shelters, clothes, feeds and educates more people than any other organization in the whole world.
While it’s been a bad 60-70 years of bad publicity regards some maggots within the church and rightly so may I add, a lot of this generation of pedo priests have either died, nearing their deaths or have been publicly shamed and convicted. Over the last 15 years there is a growing amount of young priests with zeal entering the priesthood with genuine intentions and purpose who strongly oppose the dirt inside the church with dirt cleaning well under way. For the billion or so church members this gives us hope. For the individual parishes around the world, these parishes have been a refuge for many, especially for the persecuted Christian’s in the Middle East by Islamic extremists or the persecuted Christian’s in North Africa. Many priests have taken bullets or offered themselves to be beheaded in place of innocents families trying to flee areas of persecutions, slavery and cold blooded slaughtering of innocent civilians. There has been many other times in history where the church stood up and protected the innocent lives of humans, Mexico in the 1920’s, world war 2 and the stance against the Nazis. A lot of priests were lined up and shot dead for protecting and hiding Jewish prisoners of war, innocent men, women and children.

When we hear the words Catholic Church, we can focus on the 4% of pedo priests or we can celebrate what good the church has done.

I personally feel peoples hate of the church is far deeper than the pedo priests. I feel the church is hated for many other reasons as well. It’s hated for its stance against abortion, it’s hated for its stance against contraception, it’s hated for its stance against euthanasia, it’s hated for its stance against same sex marriage, it also may be hatred by certain individuals who may have had a bad experience once upon a time in their lives. Maybe they got the cane at school by a nun for being cheeky.

Until the church changes it’s teaching in the catechism of the Catholic Church to include “it’s ok to rape a child” then I will always be a Catholic. And may all the bad bishops, priests and nuns who have sexually abused a child be brought to justice, and get what they deserve.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

I don’t think he’s defending rapists and pedos mate. The whole time through he is only defending the church even though he may seem to be defending pedos and rapists.
There are 415,000 catholic priests throughout the whole world. According to some statistics 4% are pedos maybe up to 20,000 priests. 96% are actually good priests. These are very rough figures but you get what I’m trying to say.
The Catholic Church has 1.34 billion members around the world and not all identify as Roman Catholic. There are 23 Rites of the Catholic faith, including and not limited to Roman Catholicism. There are the Maronites, The Melkites, Chaldeans and 20 other rites each with their own traditions are history.

While it is true that there have been many priests and bishops who are/were pedos and also bishops in higher authority who have harbored and protected them, the majority of these entered into the priesthood in the mid 20th century as a way to hide behind the collar and seek protection from outside authorities/law enforcers. Yes, they wore their priestly collars but they had other intentions. It is very very very unfortunate that these disgusting activities were allowed to go on for a very long time and the pain and devastation it has caused victims and their families. It is also unfortunate that the whole of the Catholic Church worldwide is branded the same way or tainted with the same brush because millions of church members, bishops, priests, nuns, monks, friars, brothers and the like give up their whole lives serving the needs of the entire human race. The Catholic Church shelters, clothes, feeds and educates more people than any other organization in the whole world.
While it’s been a bad 60-70 years of bad publicity regards some maggots within the church and rightly so may I add, a lot of this generation of pedo priests have either died, nearing their deaths or have been publicly shamed and convicted. Over the last 15 years there is a growing amount of young priests with zeal entering the priesthood with genuine intentions and purpose who strongly oppose the dirt inside the church with dirt cleaning well under way. For the billion or so church members this gives us hope. For the individual parishes around the world, these parishes have been a refuge for many, especially for the persecuted Christian’s in the Middle East by Islamic extremists or the persecuted Christian’s in North Africa. Many priests have taken bullets or offered themselves to be beheaded in place of innocents families trying to flee areas of persecutions, slavery and cold blooded slaughtering of innocent civilians. There has been many other times in history where the church stood up and protected the innocent lives of humans, Mexico in the 1920’s, world war 2 and the stance against the Nazis. A lot of priests were lined up and shot dead for protecting and hiding Jewish prisoners of war, innocent men, women and children.

When we hear the words Catholic Church, we can focus on the 4% of pedo priests or we can celebrate what good the church has done.

I personally feel peoples hate of the church is far deeper than the pedo priests. I feel the church is hated for many other reasons as well. It’s hated for its stance against abortion, it’s hated for its stance against contraception, it’s hated for its stance against euthanasia, it’s hated for its stance against same sex marriage, it also may be hatred by certain individuals who may have had a bad experience once upon a time in their lives. Maybe they got the cane at school by a nun for being cheeky.

Until the church changes it’s teaching in the catechism of the Catholic Church to include “it’s ok to rape a child” then I will always be a Catholic. And may all the bad bishops, priests and nuns who have sexually abused a child be brought to justice, and get what they deserve.

I have no issue with this stance. It's definitely a small minority who carry out these acts. I just criticise Kelpie for saying it's "less than 1%" when the stats say otherwise, and for saying that others at the Church didn't know about it and didn't cover it up, when it's on the record that many higher up officials knew about the reported incidents and not only ignored them, but often paid the victims to stay silent, and extradited the accused priests to avoid criminal punishment.

There are incidents of priests with 100s of accusations against them, and the church has relocated them and put them in charge of children.

Then there's incidents like the French Catholic Church school that was overseen and run by the Church, and they carried out horrific acts for decades under the control of the Catholic Church. Over 216,000 children sexually abused. That's not a few isolated incidents.

Inquiries in Ireland found that sexual abuse happened at most Catholic run schools in Ireland. An in-depth inquiry in Australia found tens of thousands of children abused in Catholic institutions.

I should point out that I'm not in any way saying that this is a majority issue. It's always a small section of the Church that does this stuff, and the vast majority of the Church is good. But there's no denying that these incidents are much more widespread than people believe, and there's no denying many members of the Church protected paedophiles. Except if you're Kelpie, because he has stated that other members of the Church did not know about these incidents and didn't cover it up. It's a minority involved but when that minority has power, they will cause much more damage than the majority could conceive.

I completey understand where Kelpie is coming from. He's Catholic through and through. He doesn't want to believe that the problem is so widespread. That's why he keeps using terms like, "less than 1%" and "very little if any knew about it"

He doesn't want to believe it. But whether he believes it or not, it's true.

 

[dogwhisperer]

I have no issue with this stance. It's definitely a small minority who carry out these acts. I just criticise Kelpie for saying it's "less than 1%" when the stats say otherwise, and for saying that others at the Church didn't know about it and didn't cover it up, when it's on the record that many higher up officials knew about the reported incidents and not only ignored them, but often paid the victims to stay silent, and extradited the accused priests to avoid criminal punishment.

There are incidents of priests with 100s of accusations against them, and the church has relocated them and put them in charge of children.

Then there's incidents like the French Catholic Church school that was overseen and run by the Church, and they carried out horrific acts for decades under the control of the Catholic Church. Over 216,000 children sexually abused. That's not a few isolated incidents.

Inquiries in Ireland found that sexual abuse happened at most Catholic run schools in Ireland. An in-depth inquiry in Australia found tens of thousands of children abused in Catholic institutions.

I should point out that I'm not in any way saying that this is a majority issue. It's always a small section of the Church that does this stuff, and the vast majority of the Church is good. But there's no denying that these incidents are much more widespread than people believe, and there's no denying many members of the Church protected paedophiles. Except if you're Kelpie, because he has stated that other members of the Church did not know about these incidents and didn't cover it up. It's a minority involved but when that minority has power, they will cause much more damage than the majority could conceive.

I completey understand where Kelpie is coming from. He's Catholic through and through. He doesn't want to believe that the problem is so widespread. That's why he keeps using terms like, "less than 1%" and "very little if any knew about it"

He doesn't want to believe it. But whether he believes it or not, it's true.

Ok, I agree. But maybe if there weren’t so many lunatics who throw below the belt comments at him and use filthy remarks and disgusting and offensive language at a senior like Kelpie then maybe he wouldn’t dig his heels in so much and a proper dialogue can take place with real insight and understanding. Respect must be given both ways. He’s never directed any bad language at anyone. Look as I’ve said before Im no angel and probably worse than the lot of you in regards to bad language and I’m certainly not a holier than thou type of person, but I’ve followed this thread from the beginning and I can tell you Kelpie means well. Give the senior a break.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

Ok, I agree. But maybe if there weren’t so many lunatics who throw below the belt comments at him and use filthy remarks and disgusting and offensive language at a senior like Kelpie then maybe he wouldn’t dig his heels in so much and a proper dialogue can take place with real insight and understanding. Respect must be given both ways. He’s never directed any bad language at anyone. Look as I’ve said before Im no angel and probably worse than the lot of you in regards to bad language and I’m certainly not a holier than thou type of person, but I’ve followed this thread from the beginning and I can tell you Kelpie means well. Give the senior a break.

I definitely agree there. Extreme attacks only end up with the other side pushing extreme stuff too.

Kelpie has attacked me saying that I have a vendetta against the church and that I think the whole church are paedophiles, when I have clearly said the opposite, but I don't blame him. With so many attacking him he's obviously going to go into defensive mode.

 

[dogwhisperer]

I definitely agree there. Extreme attacks only end up with the other side pushing extreme stuff too.

Kelpie has attacked me saying that I have a vendetta against the church and that I think the whole church are paedophiles, when I have clearly said the opposite, but I don't blame him. With so many attacking him he's obviously going to go into defensive mode.

Exactly

 

[likeadoggy]

I definitely agree there. Extreme attacks only end up with the other side pushing extreme stuff too.

Kelpie has attacked me saying that I have a vendetta against the church and that I think the whole church are paedophiles, when I have clearly said the opposite, but I don't blame him. With so many attacking him he's obviously going to go into defensive mode.

you still think the nsw health guidelines are relevant even though they literally state they’re not true,accurate or correct. I’m not sure you’re overly qualified on anything pal. tbh

 

[Hacky McAxe]

you still think the nsw health guidelines are relevant even though they literally state they’re not true,accurate or correct. I’m not sure you’re overly qualified on anything pal. tbh

What does that have to do with the church?

Try to keep it on topic.

 

[The DoggFather]

The Vatican needs to be more Christian and less Catholic tbh.

 

[dogwhisperer]

The Vatican needs to be more Christian and less Catholic tbh.

It’s actually the other way around TBH according to the very first Christians and disciples. They Vatican needs to be more Catholic, because authentic Catholicism is the fullness of Christianity. The word “Catholic” means “Universal” in regards to the universal Christian church as the very first Christian’s understood it to be:

“Wherever the bishop appears, there let the people be; as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church.” (St Ignatius of Antioch, 107-110 AD)

Both the written Gospels and letters along with sacred traditions are what Christians call the deposit of faith preserved and passed on by the apostles and the very early followers of Christ. This is why the apostle Paul in his letter to the Thessalonians in the Holy Bible says:

“So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold on to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us.” (2 Thessalonians 2:15)

If anything, certain members of the Vatican are not Catholic enough.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

It’s actually the other way around TBH according to the very first Christians and disciples. They Vatican needs to be more Catholic, because authentic Catholicism is the fullness of Christianity. The word “Catholic” means “Universal” in regards to the universal Christian church as the very first Christian’s understood it to be:

“Wherever the bishop appears, there let the people be; as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church.” (St Ignatius of Antioch, 107-110 AD)

Both the written Gospels and letters along with sacred traditions are what Christians call the deposit of faith preserved and passed on by the apostles and the very early followers of Christ. This is why the apostle Paul in his letter to the Thessalonians in the Holy Bible says:

“So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold on to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us.” (2 Thessalonians 2:15)

If anything, certain members of the Vatican are not Catholic enough.

The problem I see is that the original Catholicism was extremely restrictive which I believe was part of the reason for the many other denominations. Eventually Catholicism did evolve, but if we stuck with the original Catholicism, I don't think it would be entirely compatible with modern society.

That said, the Catholic Church did become more restrictive than original Catholicism before it got better, so it could always be worse.

I tend to believe that any religious institution should evolve to match modern society with certain restrictions to adhere to the beliefs of the Church. For example, I don't think the Church should encourage people to stand again gay marriage, or influence political decision on it, but the Church should still stand firm on refusing to marry gay couples.

 

[Bob dog]

I respect Christians right to choose their religions and beliefs in aid of becoming better people and trying to do the right thing, ten times better people than half the fuckwits in society.
If they wanna be Christians thats great but don't try and stalk me or tell me be like one because Im not one.
Lord give me strength, I still believe there's something in it.

 

[Kelpie03]

I have no issue with this stance. It's definitely a small minority who carry out these acts. I just criticise Kelpie for saying it's "less than 1%" when the stats say otherwise, and for saying that others at the Church didn't know about it and didn't cover it up, when it's on the record that many higher up officials knew about the reported incidents and not only ignored them, but often paid the victims to stay silent, and extradited the accused priests to avoid criminal punishment.

There are incidents of priests with 100s of accusations against them, and the church has relocated them and put them in charge of children.

Then there's incidents like the French Catholic Church school that was overseen and run by the Church, and they carried out horrific acts for decades under the control of the Catholic Church. Over 216,000 children sexually abused. That's not a few isolated incidents.

Inquiries in Ireland found that sexual abuse happened at most Catholic run schools in Ireland. An in-depth inquiry in Australia found tens of thousands of children abused in Catholic institutions.

I should point out that I'm not in any way saying that this is a majority issue. It's always a small section of the Church that does this stuff, and the vast majority of the Church is good. But there's no denying that these incidents are much more widespread than people believe, and there's no denying many members of the Church protected paedophiles. Except if you're Kelpie, because he has stated that other members of the Church did not know about these incidents and didn't cover it up. It's a minority involved but when that minority has power, they will cause much more damage than the majority could conceive.

I completey understand where Kelpie is coming from. He's Catholic through and through. He doesn't want to believe that the problem is so widespread. That's why he keeps using terms like, "less than 1%" and "very little if any knew about it"

He doesn't want to believe it. But whether he believes it or not, it's true.

I don't recall mentioning 1% but it certainly is a lot closer to 1% than the 100% as a few of the sick hate riddled individuals would have us believe.
As for the cover ups not many people including Catholics know that a Priests is not allowed to report what he is told in confession (all Priests are required to go to confession once a week), a fact is respected by law in all Westerns Countries. just like Lawyer-Crim Confidantially.
The other problem is that Kids are fraid to talk about it, and only in recent years as adults have many come forward. (BTW I know of two complainents who have come forward to complain about incidents which happened many years earlier, and in both cases it was PROVEN to have been fabricated, I've a Lawyer Sister who works in an area which deals with raped women, she told me of just how hard it is for victims to talk about it, Just how hard would it have been for the kids.
I am certain that the Catholic Church has cleaned up its act better than other instution, btw much better than the teaching profession.
Also was there any mention of Priests stalking kids in the Streets as most Pedapholes have done and still do.
These days there are very few alter servers, and virtually all the scripture classes are done by the lay.
BTW any sign of unjustifed hate against any one or any well meaning group, will turn me into a Pit Bull Terrior. One American I was talking to on the south coast not long ago said to me "I thought we (Americans) had all the WHITE TRASH , but it seems like you've got your fair share too".

 

[Hacky McAxe]

I don't recall mentioning 1% but it certainly is a lot closer to 1% than the 100% as a few of the sick hate riddled individuals would have us believe.

Here you go...

RE YOUR FIRST POST: Firstly I didn't intend to deflect any blame, just to point out that out of so many Priests only very few like less than 1% actually resortered ot molesting kids, what is not known, is out of those who claimed to have been molested how many were actually sodomised. Some kids may have claimed to have been molested when they actually got a kick up the arse, and the Church paid up to avoid a scandale, My take is that their hasen't been to many cases heard in court in which Sodomising was proven.

 

[Caveman]

The problem I see is that the original Catholicism was extremely restrictive which I believe was part of the reason for the many other denominations. Eventually Catholicism did evolve, but if we stuck with the original Catholicism, I don't think it would be entirely compatible with modern society.

That said, the Catholic Church did become more restrictive than original Catholicism before it got better, so it could always be worse.

I tend to believe that any religious institution should evolve to match modern society with certain restrictions to adhere to the beliefs of the Church. For example, I don't think the Church should encourage people to stand again gay marriage, or influence political decision on it, but the Church should still stand firm on refusing to marry gay couples.

The whole reason the universal Christian church can not and should not evolve major doctrines is because Christians believe the Bible is the irrefutable word of God, completely inspired by the Holy Spirit.

It would be both foolish and unreasonable for a born again Christian to claim they follow the God of the bible whilst picking and choosing which parts of that Gods covenant they choose to adhere to.

 

[Caveman]

Regarding the finances of a church, what any particular church spends its money on reflects where the churches heart is at.

Church spending should glorify God and greed certainly is not somthing that glorifies the God of the bible.

The bible is clear in what money should be spent on - the proclaiming of the Gospel, providence for the needy, provision for church members, a double portion for teachers, providence for widows, sick and orphans.

 

[Caveman]

Regarding paedophilia and any sexual immorality the bible is clear that such things are sin, and should be treated accordingly- should one be found to be continualy sinning without repentance the church should exercise church discipline with grace and wisdom.

Should a man be found to be sinning (major sin) there are biblical processes that should be applied to allow the guilty the chance to openly repent and right his wrongs - should the man not repent he is to be graciously cast out of the church and the church should morn for him as if he has died.

The man has the opportunity to be taken in again by the church should he eventually repent of his sin and make any wrongdoings right.

 

[The DoggFather]

It’s actually the other way around TBH according to the very first Christians and disciples. They Vatican needs to be more Catholic, because authentic Catholicism is the fullness of Christianity. The word “Catholic” means “Universal” in regards to the universal Christian church as the very first Christian’s understood it to be:

“Wherever the bishop appears, there let the people be; as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church.” (St Ignatius of Antioch, 107-110 AD)

Both the written Gospels and letters along with sacred traditions are what Christians call the deposit of faith preserved and passed on by the apostles and the very early followers of Christ. This is why the apostle Paul in his letter to the Thessalonians in the Holy Bible says:

“So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold on to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us.” (2 Thessalonians 2:15)

If anything, certain members of the Vatican are not Catholic enough.

As all man made religions, they are infiltrated by evil (synagogues of satan) and need to be purged asap, not protected.

PS just a bit of religious humor... sure Catholic means "universal" but Orthodox means "the right way". I'd rather be right than United

 

[Kelpie03]

I respect Christians right to choose their religions and beliefs in aid of becoming better people and trying to do the right thing, ten times better people than half the fuckwits in society.
If they wanna be Christians thats great but don't try and stalk me or tell me be like one because Im not one.
Lord give me strength, I still believe there's something in it.

I agree with much of what you posted, but I'm not sure what your reference about stalking implies.
Kids are only been taught Catholism/Christianity in schools if their parents approve of it, even in Catholic Schools nowdays.
As for preaching in public I've only experienced Johova's whitnesess,
I don't know what is peddelled in the social Media, but on TV the anti Christian stuff, sex outside marriage, gay sex, abortion, affairs outnumbers the pro Christian news by about 100 to 1. the only times I've heard Religious Leaders talk on TV is Christmas and Easter
BTW we all do tend to push our own wheel barrow.

 

[Kelpie03]

As all man made religions, they are infiltrated by evil (synagogues of satan) and need to be purged asap, not protected.

PS just a bit of religious humor... sure Catholic means "universal" but Orthodox means "the right way". I'd rather be right than United

Theirs virtually no difference between Catholic and Orthodox teachings/practices, so we're both right.
As an Orthodox I can't understand why your so anti Catholic.

 

[Kelpie03]

Regarding paedophilia and any sexual immorality the bible is clear that such things are sin, and should be treated accordingly- should one be found to be continualy sinning without repentance the church should exercise church discipline with grace and wisdom.

Should a man be found to be sinning (major sin) there are biblical processes that should be applied to allow the guilty the chance to openly repent and right his wrongs - should the man not repent he is to be graciously cast out of the church and the church should morn for him as if he has died.

The man has the opportunity to be taken in again by the church should he eventually repent of his sin and make any wrongdoings right.

How very very true Brother.

The problem I see is that the original Catholicism was extremely restrictive which I believe was part of the reason for the many other denominations. Eventually Catholicism did evolve, but if we stuck with the original Catholicism, I don't think it would be entirely compatible with modern society.

That said, the Catholic Church did become more restrictive than original Catholicism before it got better, so it could always be worse.

I tend to believe that any religious institution should evolve to match modern society with certain restrictions to adhere to the beliefs of the Church. For example, I don't think the Church should encourage people to stand again gay marriage, or influence political decision on it, but the Church should still stand firm on refusing to marry gay couples.

Having studied Christ's life while on earth, I'm certain that he did not conform with the trends at that time. He showed up the sacred cows of his time.
No way should a Christian Church follow the ever changing trends, BTW todays trends have been pushed on our society by the pagan orintated media.
Actuall I believe that the priests who failed. Failed because they got caught up in the modern societies trends, sex sells, greed is good etc.