Religious Discussion Thread

[Kelpie03]

BTW, feel free to show proof that an almighty being created the Universe out of nothing.

BTW I did not find your previous efforts to convince me that the universe just happened overly impressive. It's a matter of what you want to believe I suppose.
For me it is easier to accept that behind this great creation their was an all mighty architect, than it is to accept that it just happened.
BTW the concept of an almighty creater therefore (GOD) has been done a lot of harm by those who have mouthed off about something they knew nothing about like the flat earth theory

 

[dogwhisperer]

Yeah, I know. That's why I originally said, "For example, some religions ban receiving blood, which often leads to people dying"

Wasn't talking specifically about Christians.

I have a friend who married in to Mormonism. Before his wedding we went and watched Book of Mormon so we could say that we had an enlightened Mormon experience.

I highly recommend Book of Mormon. Is frigging hilarious.

Yeah brother I know you weren't talking specifically about Christians.
It's absolute insane that new churches keep popping up out of nowhere.
From a faith point of view and not from the view of society, who holds the truth if they each teach something different to each other?
Presbyterians say it's ok to baptise infants but Baptists don't agree. Calvinists believe in predestination of a soul but Anglicans don't.

 

[Kelpie03]

Bro, ever since Martin Luther split away from the church in 1517 there's been thousands of denominations. 33,000 different churches. It's mind boggling.

33,000 and growing at a rate of 1,000 a year, yes their are a lot of people who want to believe in God, but found the cross to hard to carry so they made up their own convient rules.

 

[dogwhisperer]

BTW, feel free to show proof that an almighty being created the Universe out of nothing.

ha, we're not going there again are we?

 

[dogwhisperer]

33,000 and growing at a rate of 1,000 a year, yes their are a lot of people who want to believe in God, but found the cross to hard to carry so they made up their own convient rules.

Yes, I agree with that. But others will tell you different. You know, I know, lets just keep it at that

 

[dogwhisperer]

33,000 and growing at a rate of 1,000 a year, yes their are a lot of people who want to believe in God, but found the cross to hard to carry so they made up their own convient rules.

Well yeh, 33,000 was when I was into theology and apologetics back in 2010. It's probably about 44,000 now.
Sometimes when I'm driving I see these churches pop out of nowhere, It's like a smorgasbord. Like fast food chains, what do you feel like today, KFC, Maccas or Domino's. Most of these so called churches ask you to sign up and pay 10% of your salary on a monthly or fortnightly basis. I'd rather my church, I get a choice if I want to put 20c or not in the collection plate.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

BTW I did not find your previous efforts to convince me that the universe just happened overly impressive. It's a matter of what you want to believe I suppose.
For me it is easier to accept that behind this great creation their was an all mighty architect, than it is to accept that it just happened.
BTW the concept of an almighty creater therefore (GOD) has been done a lot of harm by those who have mouthed off about something they knew nothing about like the flat earth theory

For me it's a path of discovery. We know with a certain degree of certainty most of what happened. But there's stuff we don't know. There's two ways you can handle that:

1) Start looking for answers

2) Say, "it must be God, not further looking required"

I lean toward option 1. BTW, I believe I pointed this out to you in the past but, the big bang theory doesn't say that the Universe was created from nothing. That's just a myth pushed by people trying to discredit it.

What it actually says is that the Big Bang was the expansion of the Universe from a tiny compressed point, to what we have today, and beyond.

What happened before that expansion? We don't know. It's possible we'll never know. There's many hypothesis including the big bang/big crunch idea that suggests that the Universe will eventually run out of dark energy and retract back to the point before it starts again. Or there's other ideas like our Universe being an off-shoot of another Universe.

It's an extremely difficult thing to explain though because you first have to understand that the 3 dimensions of space are emphatically linked to 1 dimension of time. This has been scientifically verified. What that means is that time is malleable. If all matter in the Universe is compressed into a single point of extreme gravitational pressure, then time stops. Or at least, it slows to a point that it would take millions of years of normal time for 1 second to pass, and it potentially even reverses, because time is actually just a measurement of the amount of entropy in the Universe. So if everything is ordered into a single point, then entropy is reversed and time is actually reversed.

So this is the problem. You want me to explain how the Universe came into existence using your understanding of the Universe. All I can say is that it's possible that it came into existence in ways that humanity don't currently know and possibly will never know. But we know enough to say that humanity is pretty insignificant in the grand scheme of the Universe.

 

[UmoGus]

For me it's a path of discovery. We know with a certain degree of certainty most of what happened. But there's stuff we don't know. There's two ways you can handle that:

1) Start looking for answers

2) Say, "it must be God, not further looking required"

I lean toward option 1. BTW, I believe I pointed this out to you in the past but, the big bang theory doesn't say that the Universe was created from nothing. That's just a myth pushed by people trying to discredit it.

What it actually says is that the Big Bang was the expansion of the Universe from a tiny compressed point, to what we have today, and beyond.

What happened before that expansion? We don't know. It's possible we'll never know. There's many hypothesis including the big bang/big crunch idea that suggests that the Universe will eventually run out of dark energy and retract back to the point before it starts again. Or there's other ideas like our Universe being an off-shoot of another Universe.

It's an extremely difficult thing to explain though because you first have to understand that the 3 dimensions of space are emphatically linked to 1 dimension of time. This has been scientifically verified. What that means is that time is malleable. If all matter in the Universe is compressed into a single point of extreme gravitational pressure, then time stops. Or at least, it slows to a point that it would take millions of years of normal time for 1 second to pass, and it potentially even reverses, because time is actually just a measurement of the amount of entropy in the Universe. So if everything is ordered into a single point, then entropy is reversed and time is actually reversed.

So this is the problem. You want me to explain how the Universe came into existence using your understanding of the Universe. All I can say is that it's possible that it came into existence in ways that humanity don't currently know and possibly will never know. But we know enough to say that humanity is pretty insignificant in the grand scheme of the Universe.

My brain hurts trying to understand what you just said.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

Yeah brother I know you weren't talking specifically about Christians.
It's absolute insane that new churches keep popping up out of nowhere.
From a faith point of view and not from the view of society, who holds the truth if they each teach something different to each other?
Presbyterians say it's ok to baptise infants but Baptists don't agree. Calvinists believe in predestination of a soul but Anglicans don't.

I have always laughed at Scientologists first and foremost. Their entire religion is traced back to some books written by an amateur author. The same author who is known for saying, "If a man really wanted to make a million dollars, the best way to do it would be start his own religion"

But this is also why I say that any religion could be true. If millions of people can believe an obviously flawed idea with our current understanding of the Universe, then 1,500, 2,000, 4,000, 10,000 years ago people could have believed anything.

That doesn't mean any religion is wrong, but it provides perspective.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

ha, we're not going there again are we?

Nah, I'm just stirring Kelpie. If he keeps saying, "Provide proof that the Universe came from nothing", then I'm going to respond, "alrigh, provide proof of God"

If you want to argue using "lack of evidence", then your side must have more evidence.

 

[The DoggFather]

I feel for you brother, heart transplants are no fun,
For the record beside our Church we have a 24/7 adoration Chappel, theres only 7 such Chapples in Australia, where the faithfill take turns to pray 24/7. for those in need. I'll put in a petition in the petition box for you.

St Vincent's has a couple of nice chapels. I usually got communion every day bedside when I'm in there.

They visit you when you're not allowed out of bed or the ward.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

My brain hurts trying to understand what you just said.

It's one of those things that's complex at first but when you wrap your head around it, it seems so obvious.

Just read up on Einstein's theories of relativity. In this context, it's more important to read up on general relativity, not special relativity.

Basically put, 100 years ago Einstein showed that mass bends space and time. Add a large amount of mass, that adds a large amount of gravity, that bends not only space but also time. Like a bowling ball on a tramampoline. Anything that moves closer to the ball will be pulled toward the ball. But time is linked with space so if you are the object moving toward that bowling ball, then time slows down for you.

This is the part that really messes with your head, but we have confirmed it. If you take two atomic clocks and put one at sea level, and the other on the tallest mountain, then leave them there for 1 year. When you check the clocks, they will be different. Both clocks should be the same but one clock will move slightly faster than the other. It's pretty much imperceivable and insignificant to humans, but one clock will be nanoseconds ahead of the other because the pull of gravity is stronger at sea level than it is further away (like the top of a mountain). The stronger gravity is, the slower time moves.

Take this to the next level by adding in an extreme mass. Like a black hole at the centre of our galaxy. It's a mass made up of 100's of millions of stars, but it's a black hole so it's also a tiny point. Like the point before the Big Bang, but smaller. But it's influence is based on the amount of mass and the fact that it's made up of the mass of millions of stars means that if you went to the centre of the galaxy, you would be sucked into the black hole but time would slow down so much that before you were sucked right into the middle, you would see 100's of billions of years pass around you.

Yeah, I don't explain it very well and it's complex and takes a while. But when you get your head around it, it's insane. And it's stuff that Einstein hypothesised 100 years ago, and humans have since confirmed to be 100% true.

 

[The DoggFather]

For me it's a path of discovery. We know with a certain degree of certainty most of what happened. But there's stuff we don't know. There's two ways you can handle that:

1) Start looking for answers

2) Say, "it must be God, not further looking required"

I lean toward option 1. BTW, I believe I pointed this out to you in the past but, the big bang theory doesn't say that the Universe was created from nothing. That's just a myth pushed by people trying to discredit it.

What it actually says is that the Big Bang was the expansion of the Universe from a tiny compressed point, to what we have today, and beyond.

What happened before that expansion? We don't know. It's possible we'll never know. There's many hypothesis including the big bang/big crunch idea that suggests that the Universe will eventually run out of dark energy and retract back to the point before it starts again. Or there's other ideas like our Universe being an off-shoot of another Universe.

It's an extremely difficult thing to explain though because you first have to understand that the 3 dimensions of space are emphatically linked to 1 dimension of time. This has been scientifically verified. What that means is that time is malleable. If all matter in the Universe is compressed into a single point of extreme gravitational pressure, then time stops. Or at least, it slows to a point that it would take millions of years of normal time for 1 second to pass, and it potentially even reverses, because time is actually just a measurement of the amount of entropy in the Universe. So if everything is ordered into a single point, then entropy is reversed and time is actually reversed.

So this is the problem. You want me to explain how the Universe came into existence using your understanding of the Universe. All I can say is that it's possible that it came into existence in ways that humanity don't currently know and possibly will never know. But we know enough to say that humanity is pretty insignificant in the grand scheme of the Universe.

I haven't got enough faith to be an atheist lol

 

[Hacky McAxe]

This explains relativity pretty well

 

[Hacky McAxe]

I haven't got enough faith to be an atheist lol

An interesting misconception with Atheism is that it's the belief that God doesn't exist. It's not though.

Atheism in it's purest form is just a lack of belief in God. A true Atheist is agnostic. They say, "God may exist, but I don't have any reason to believe God exists"

It's not saying, "I'm sure God exists", it's just saying, "I have no reason to believe that God exists". Rather than it being a belief system, it's instead a lack of belief.

Side note, if any atheist says that God 100% doesn't exist, then they're being dishonest, as there's always a chance. Even if it's a 0.00000000001% chance, it's still a chance.

 

[Grunthos]

Given half a chance, all the religions of the would lead
humanity to a glittering new, 12th century...​

 

[UmoGus]

It's one of those things that's complex at first but when you wrap your head around it, it seems so obvious.

Just read up on Einstein's theories of relativity. In this context, it's more important to read up on general relativity, not special relativity.

Basically put, 100 years ago Einstein showed that mass bends space and time. Add a large amount of mass, that adds a large amount of gravity, that bends not only space but also time. Like a bowling ball on a tramampoline. Anything that moves closer to the ball will be pulled toward the ball. But time is linked with space so if you are the object moving toward that bowling ball, then time slows down for you.

This is the part that really messes with your head, but we have confirmed it. If you take two atomic clocks and put one at sea level, and the other on the tallest mountain, then leave them there for 1 year. When you check the clocks, they will be different. Both clocks should be the same but one clock will move slightly faster than the other. It's pretty much imperceivable and insignificant to humans, but one clock will be nanoseconds ahead of the other because the pull of gravity is stronger at sea level than it is further away (like the top of a mountain). The stronger gravity is, the slower time moves.

Take this to the next level by adding in an extreme mass. Like a black hole at the centre of our galaxy. It's a mass made up of 100's of millions of stars, but it's a black hole so it's also a tiny point. Like the point before the Big Bang, but smaller. But it's influence is based on the amount of mass and the fact that it's made up of the mass of millions of stars means that if you went to the centre of the galaxy, you would be sucked into the black hole but time would slow down so much that before you were sucked right into the middle, you would see 100's of billions of years pass around you.

Yeah, I don't explain it very well and it's complex and takes a while. But when you get your head around it, it's insane. And it's stuff that Einstein hypothesised 100 years ago, and humans have since confirmed to be 100% true.

You actually explained it very well. Iv always been interested in how time works. I could just never get my head around it

 

[UmoGus]

This explains relativity pretty well

Great video

 

[Mr 95%]

An interesting misconception with Atheism is that it's the belief that God doesn't exist. It's not though.

Atheism in it's purest form is just a lack of belief in God. A true Atheist is agnostic. They say, "God may exist, but I don't have any reason to believe God exists"

It's not saying, "I'm sure God exists", it's just saying, "I have no reason to believe that God exists". Rather than it being a belief system, it's instead a lack of belief.

Side note, if any atheist says that God 100% doesn't exist, then they're being dishonest, as there's always a chance. Even if it's a 0.00000000001% chance, it's still a chance.

Would that go the other way? Does a believer doubt there is a God? Perhaps a 0.00000000001% chance..

 

[Hacky McAxe]

Would that go the other way? Does a believer doubt there is a God? Perhaps a 0.00000000001% chance..

Depends on the religion. Christianity is pretty solid on it. The bible says to have no doubt at all. They have to believe 100%. But there are agnostic theists who believe God exists but they're not 100% certain.