Religious Discussion Thread

[Hacky McAxe]

Come on mate we could be friends, you put out some great posts on football. One issue people are not objective people. you should know that Catholic Priests are supposed to live a celibent life. Now you cant deny the fact that the moral stndards have changed (in my mind droped) greatly in the last 60 or so years, hence its' more tempting now.to fantasise. I don't believe that I'm making excuses. because over 95% of them have kept their vowes during very difficult times. BTW less than 1% have indulged in paedophilia.
I believe that in other institutions where the clergy are/were allowed to marry the level of paedophilia has been just as common.
What is your biff with the Catholic Church, their are many reasons why people have turned against the Catholic Church.
Including the one that the Catholic Church has been strongly opposed the gay lifestile.

Honestly, I thought Alan was being nice.

I don't mean offence but you 100% deflected. You used deflection tactics to suggest that if there was paedophile incidents, it wasn't the fault of the priests because society was getting worse
Children were being provocative. And you even used the classic school yard "nutpunch" to slugged that it's not their fault. Like kids understand the potential sexual connotations of punching someone in the nuts.

When I went to school, a nut punch was funny. Kids still do it today. If a priest gets punched in the nuts, it's not even 0.000001% of an excuse for sexual assault of a minor. It's not related. It's not hypersexualisation of society. It's just kids having fun.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

I wouldn't be supprised if the Catholic Church runs a lot more schools and has more kids than all the others put together.

Definitely. And as a percentage, the assault cases could be on par with other religious institutions. But that should not be used as an excuse. If someone murders 20 people you don't say, "Hitler killed many more people"

Instead you say, "yeah, that's f'd up. There is no excuse for that"

 

[Hacky McAxe]

Trying to be nice and logical here. It's obvious you have your affinity for the Church, and that's fine. But don't make excuses for them. They don't deserve it. Don't ignore the problem, it doesn't help.

The simple thing to say is, "yeah, there was bad people in our church and there's probably still bad people. I have no excuse for them. I'm angry that higher members of the church would protect these people. A church is like any institution. It's fallable. I hope it gets better"

 

[Alan79]

Come on mate we could be friends, you put out some great posts on football. One issue people are not objective people. you should know that Catholic Priests are supposed to live a celibent life. Now you cant deny the fact that the moral stndards have changed (in my mind droped) greatly in the last 60 or so years, hence its' more tempting now.to fantasise. I don't believe that I'm making excuses. because over 95% of them have kept their vowes during very difficult times. BTW less than 1% have indulged in paedophilia.
I believe that in other institutions where the clergy are/were allowed to marry the level of paedophilia has been just as common.
What is your biff with the Catholic Church, their are many reasons why people have turned against the Catholic Church.
Including the one that the Catholic Church has been strongly opposed the gay lifestile.

I honestly don't see any point in going round in circles arguing with you on this. You clearly don't want to hold the church to account for knowingly transferring the cancer around rather than cutting it out. When the clergy have committed serious crimes and haven't been subjected to the same laws as the rest of society through fear of damaging the organisation's reputation or for whatever reasons, I fail to see why the organisation deserves trust.

 

[wendog33]

Very few people seem to relate or care enough about survivors of child (or any) sexual assault, until, or unless, it directly involves them, their children or members of their family.

Then they fairly evaluate and realise the emotional, and physical, toll this crime against children, or others, has on the individual, and society and families, in so many on going ways.

Zero tolerance, in every aspect, from churches and every organisation, with every perpetrator, should be the very least expectation, if it unfortunately happens.

With the full force of the law with remediation, psychological support and compensation paid by the church, not the State.

Shuffling off pedo Priests and Ministers etc to new parishes was/is unmitigated evil. Shame and damnation on those who took that decision, turned a blind eye and willfully subjected other innocent children to the same fate.

Surely the Churches no longer continue on with protecting their own above the standards of decency and common law and the rights of victims.

 

[wendog33]

Melbourne diocese of Anglican church received $16m in jobkeeper in 2020

Exclusive: Money received from wage subsidy scheme enough to cover church’s estimated sexual abuse compensation bill of $14.3m

www.theguardian.com

 

[Wahesh]

Melbourne diocese of Anglican church received $16m in jobkeeper in 2020

Exclusive: Money received from wage subsidy scheme enough to cover church’s estimated sexual abuse compensation bill of $14.3m

www.theguardian.com

Wow I wonder which Kenneler here is going have a field day with this!

 

[wendog33]

Wow I wonder which Kenneler here is going have a field day with this!

Thread is church greed so it had to be posted

 

[The DoggFather]

This piece of shit parading as a Muslim cleric got busted.

https://australianseniorsnews.com.au/featured/religious-leader-charged-over-100000-fraud/

I hope everyone gets ever cent back off the demon.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

This piece of shit parading as a Muslim cleric got busted.

https://australianseniorsnews.com.au/featured/religious-leader-charged-over-100000-fraud/

I hope everyone gets ever cent back off the demon.

What a prick.

On a side note, is it bad that I laughed when I opened that page and saw an advert with an old guy washing his golf cart in the driveway?

 

[The DoggFather]

What a prick.

On a side note, is it bad that I laughed when I opened that page and saw an advert with an old guy washing his golf cart in the driveway?

I got an ad about "ageism" lol

 

[Kelpie03]

Honestly, I thought Alan was being nice.

I don't mean offence but you 100% deflected. You used deflection tactics to suggest that if there was paedophile incidents, it wasn't the fault of the priests because society was getting worse
Children were being provocative. And you even used the classic school yard "nutpunch" to slugged that it's not their fault. Like kids understand the potential sexual connotations of punching someone in the nuts.

When I went to school, a nut punch was funny. Kids still do it today. If a priest gets punched in the nuts, it's not even 0.000001% of an excuse for sexual assault of a minor. It's not related. It's not hypersexualisation of society. It's just kids having fun.

Definitely. And as a percentage, the assault cases could be on par with other religious institutions. But that should not be used as an excuse. If someone murders 20 people you don't say, "Hitler killed many more people"

Instead you say, "yeah, that's f'd up. There is no excuse for that"

Trying to be nice and logical here. It's obvious you have your affinity for the Church, and that's fine. But don't make excuses for them. They don't deserve it. Don't ignore the problem, it doesn't help.

The simple thing to say is, "yeah, there was bad people in our church and there's probably still bad people. I have no excuse for them. I'm angry that higher members of the church would protect these people. A church is like any institution. It's fallable. I hope it gets better"

RE YOUR FIRST POST: Firstly I didn't intend to deflect any blame, just to point out that out of so many Priests only very few like less than 1% actually resortered ot molesting kids, what is not known, is out of those who claimed to have been molested how many were actually sodomised. Some kids may have claimed to have been molested when they actually got a kick up the arse, and the Church paid up to avoid a scandale, My take is that their hasen't been to many cases heard in court in which Sodomising was proven. BTW if a kid punched be in the nuts I would kick him so hard up the arse that he would have trouble sitting for a long time, no matter who is watching I would do it even today.
RE YOUR 2ND POST: I think you will find that I have not made excuses for the bad people by pointing out that Jesus taught that every (person/sinner) should be allowed the oppurtunity to (repent/reform). Hence why some Bishops (not the whole church) may have erred in believing that an offending priest had changed his ways.
RE YOUR 3RD POST: I have never made excuses for the bad eggs, have known 1 or 2 myself, (btw it had nothing to do with the sexuall stuff though)
We will disagree on the fact that you want to blame the whole Church, the Church like every other nobel institution does not do bad things, its people who do bad things.
(1) Been or having been a Christian your self, you shoul know that Jesus chose 12 Apostles and one failed him badly (to be exact that is an 8.5% failure rate).
(2) After the Port Athur tragedy many called for all guns to be baned, because guns kill people. Very few pointed out that its people killing people, guns just dont go out in the Streets by thenselves to kill people.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

RE YOUR FIRST POST: Firstly I didn't intend to deflect any blame, just to point out that out of so many Priests only very few like less than 1% actually resortered ot molesting kids, what is not known, is out of those who claimed to have been molested how many were actually sodomised. Some kids may have claimed to have been molested when they actually got a kick up the arse, and the Church paid up to avoid a scandale, My take is that their hasen't been to many cases heard in court in which Sodomising was proven. BTW if a kid punched be in the nuts I would kick him so hard up the arse that he would have trouble sitting for a long time, no matter who is watching I would do it even today.
RE YOUR 2ND POST: I think you will find that I have not made excuses for the bad people by pointing out that Jesus taught that every (person/sinner) should be allowed the oppurtunity to (repent/reform). Hence why some Bishops (not the whole church) may have erred in believing that an offending priest had changed his ways.
RE YOUR 3RD POST: I have never made excuses for the bad eggs, have known 1 or 2 myself, (btw it had nothing to do with the sexuall stuff though)
We will disagree on the fact that you want to blame the whole Church, the Church like every other nobel institution does not do bad things, its people who do bad things.
(1) Been or having been a Christian your self, you shoul know that Jesus chose 12 Apostles and one failed him badly (to be exact that is an 8.5% failure rate).
(2) After the Port Athur tragedy many called for all guns to be baned, because guns kill people. Very few pointed out that its people killing people, guns just dont go out in the Streets by thenselves to kill people.

Regarding the last parts:

"We will disagree on the fact that you want to blame the whole Church"

You keep pulling up this strawman and it's pretty dishonest. Myself and others have started multiple times that the Church as a whole isn't the problem. I even pointed out that I have respect for the Churches because I believe they do a lot of good.

It's never about the Church. It's about certain people who protect those that do wrong. During the inquest it was found that many high up members worked to protect those who were accused of wrong doing.

Also, on the very last part, everyone pointed that out. The stance from the gun lobby was "guns don't kill people, people kill people", and the response from the government was, "yes, but guns make it much easier"

 

[Kelpie03]

I honestly don't see any point in going round in circles arguing with you on this. You clearly don't want to hold the church to account for knowingly transferring the cancer around rather than cutting it out. When the clergy have committed serious crimes and haven't been subjected to the same laws as the rest of society through fear of damaging the organisation's reputation or for whatever reasons, I fail to see why the organisation deserves trust.

WE just might keep going around in circles if we just want to focus on the fact that their is only bad one institution in Australia or the World.
I believe that the Catholic Church is the most noble trustworthy Institution/organisation in the world by a long way, its probably why it is the most hated, and why its missioneries suffered more martyredium than any other.
It has been documented how Jesus cured people preached love all mankind etc. Funny how he was crucified, yet Barabus a murderer was treated as a hero.

 

[Alan79]

WE just might keep going around in circles if we just want to focus on the fact that their is only bad one institution in Australia or the World.
I believe that the Catholic Church is the most noble trustworthy Institution/organisation in the world by a long way, its probably why it is the most hated, and why its missioneries suffered more martyredium than any other.
It has been documented how Jesus cured people preached love all mankind etc. Funny how he was crucified, yet Barabus a murderer was treated as a hero.

It's no use discussing this with you. You have a massive blind spot about the cause of why many people hate religions. So far you've pretty much articulated in different words what a sheik or someone did a few years back in virtually blaming society for corrupting pedo priests. It's basically like saying do you blame the cat for eating uncovered meat (in that case the guy was blaming rape victims for inciting rapeby dressing provocatively) in your case it seems like you blamed children though.

Now it seems like you really think that people hate the church because they're jealous of how trustworthy it is.

I could easily conclude that you're trolling with this if I wasn't aware of the fact that people can confuse faith with the need to completely step away from logic.

 

[Kelpie03]

Regarding the last parts:

"We will disagree on the fact that you want to blame the whole Church"

You keep pulling up this strawman and it's pretty dishonest. Myself and others have started multiple times that the Church as a whole isn't the problem. I even pointed out that I have respect for the Churches because I believe they do a lot of good.

It's never about the Church. It's about certain people who protect those that do wrong. During the inquest it was found that many high up members worked to protect those who were accused of wrong doing.

Also, on the very last part, everyone pointed that out. The stance from the gun lobby was "guns don't kill people, people kill people", and the response from the government was, "yes, but guns make it much easier"

I don't know what you mean by this strawman reference, to me its clear that many have continually stated that all the Church people are bad, you should start with the very title of this thread and virtually all of Kambala one posts, but their has been many more posts attacking Churches, I've not seen any posts pointing out crime and corruption at the big end of town and in government, If I was to meet with you I would certainly aleart you to some interesting stuff.
As for your second line I'm not sure what you mean by protecting the paedophiles, (protecting could mean assisting and allowing). I'm certain that the Church leaders were very unhappy and hurt by what happened, and tried to fix the problem in house, like all other institutions. Many Christians (perhaps only the nieve ones) believe that people can change and become more Christ like. However after seeing so many HATE posts I begining to have doubts.
As for your last point your right, what you missed is that the good people even with loaded guns in hand dont kill people.

 

[Kelpie03]

It's no use discussing this with you. You have a massive blind spot about the cause of why many people hate religions. So far you've pretty much articulated in different words what a sheik or someone did a few years back in virtually blaming society for corrupting pedo priests. It's basically like saying do you blame the cat for eating uncovered meat (in that case the guy was blaming rape victims for inciting rapeby dressing provocatively) in your case it seems like you blamed children though.

Now it seems like you really think that people hate the church because they're jealous of how trustworthy it is.

I could easily conclude that you're trolling with this if I wasn't aware of the fact that people can confuse faith with the need to completely step away from logic.

I don't excuse any priest for even breaking his vowes even when it involves a mature woman, but Church records show that breaking vowes rose from less tha 2% before this permissive society madness, to some where between 4-5% in more recent times.
AS for hating the Church/ Churches their would be many reasons, and I very much doubt if any of the haters would give you an honest answer.I very much doubt that the haters were all molested by Priests, if fact I'd say very very few.
I don't know your sexual orientation but I can assure you that living a celibent life in this day and age is torture, and all decent thinking people will take their hat of for the 95% of Catholic Priests who do. Sorry I should'nt have said it because it would be impossible for an atheist to understand it.
Mate; logic like beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[CaptainJackson]

Report finds 216,000 children have been sexually abused by French Catholic Church clergy since 1950 - ABC News

amp.abc.net.au

 

[maltalian_dog]

Report finds 216,000 children have been sexually abused by French Catholic Church clergy since 1950 - ABC News

amp.abc.net.au

1 child is too many... Burn it down

 

[Hacky McAxe]

Report finds 216,000 children have been sexually abused by French Catholic Church clergy since 1950 - ABC News

amp.abc.net.au

From the News.com.au article:

"Sauve denounced the "systemic character" of efforts to shield clergy from sex abuse claims, and urged the Church to pay reparations even though most cases are well beyond the statute of limitations for prosecution.

"The Catholic Church is, after the circle of family and friends, the environment that has the highest prevalence of sexual violence," the report said.

Sauve had already told AFP on Sunday that a "minimum estimate" of 2,900 to 3,200 paedophiles had operated in the French Church since 1950"