Bush Fires

Lov_Dog

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I know the other thread got closed, but that seemed to be for separate reasons and not because we can't talk about bush fires.

I'll kick the convo off again.

There is a lot of talk saying these fires are unprecedented, however, let's look at the worst fires in Australia by number of deaths and number of acres burned:

Worst by area burned:

1974-75 - NT - 110,000,000 acres
1974-75 - WA - 72,000,000 acres
1974-75 - SA - 42,000,000 acres

2002 - NT - 37,000,000 acres
1974-75 Qld - 19,000,000 acres
Current year 2019/20 - 16,000,000 acres

Worst by fatalities:

2009 Black Saturday Victoria - 173 dead
1983 Ash Wednesday South Australia & Victoria - 75 dead
1939 Black Friday Victoria - 71 dead
1967 Black Tuesday Tasmania - 62 dead
1926 Victoria - 60 dead
1962 Victoria - 32 dead
Current year 2019/20 - 25 dead

Everyone agrees this years fires are horrific but to call them unprecedented would seem an exaggeration?

Also, 183 people (to date) have been spoken to or charged by police regarding fire offences (including arson) since November. I don't think there are stats yet, however it would seem a significant majority of these fires are the cause of humans lighting fires (which of course has nothing to do with climate change).

From the UoW report wiki has referenced, the following areas were affected ~44 years ago in the 1974-5 fire season (with very pertinent caveats):
NT: Barkly Tableland, Victoria River district, near Newcastle Waters
SA: North-west of state (arid and semi-arid zones)
WA: East and north-east of Kalgoorlie
and
NSW: Bourke to Balranald, Cobar Shire, Moolah–Corinya—most of the Western Division --- 11M acres -- 6 fatalities

>> Apart from NSW in above list, NT, SA and WA were likely very very remote regions, uninhabited and thus may have been extremely difficult to defend.
I suspect these points and many similar have A LOT to do with the sheer size of affected area and minimal to do with climate change.

Further, communications, technology and fire defence mechanisms were likely not as mature as those implemented today.
And the population size was effectively half what it is currently.
I hazard a guess that the estimation of affected land size would have been exactly that, estimations/approximates, compared to the more accurate estimates we are blessed with today.
Lastly, and again apart from NSW, there were no lives lost in the largest of fires listed, suggesting they were likely left to burn out rather than actively extinguished.
Shout out to Tropical Cyclone Tracy which wiped a great proportion of Darwin .. it wouldn't be naïve to conclude that resources were likely directed to TC Tracy affected area rather than less inhabited regions.

Exactly what point were you trying to make by providing the figures preceded by "let's look at the worst fires in Australia by number of deaths and number of acres burned"?
Since none of your "worst" category of fires suffered the most (human) fatalities, with the exception of 2009 Black Saturday. But I guess the broken clock is still correct twice a day.

It's a long bow you've attempted drawing here, cherry picking such information without providing background to frame your debate.
 

Nano

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Those kids being Zraikas explains it all lmao
 

Hacky McAxe

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Are you a hippie?
No. No. Far from it. I'm a guy who roasts whole pigs on a spit while driving a petrol thirsty Holden Commodore.

But I'm also a guy who loves science to the point that I pay way too much for subscriptions to some of the top scientific journals, and I get annoyed when people use obviously flawed methodology to spread misinformation.
 

Cosmo Kramer

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I think it leads to a misunderstanding of what climate change is and what kind of impact we have on it.

As I pointed out many times already, no one is saying that climate change starts fires. That's a myth. But climate change is believed to make fires worse. How much? Not really sure. It's certainly not the sole cause of it though. Climate change is only ever part of the equation.
Agreed.

While no credible scientist is saying climate change starts fires, quite a few commentators (talking heads and ordinary people) are speaking as though climate change is the major factor of these fires, and many are speaking as if it ignited them. This is demonstrably the sentiment in the majority of comments on every SMH article regarding these matters.
 

Realist90

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Nope. You shared articles that didn't say that climate change started the fires, then you admitted that they didn't say that, then you wanted me to guess that's what they mean. Even in the articles that clearly stated the role climate change played.
I mean with your logic, the left have no ground to call trump a racist. Find me a quote straight from him explicitly him saying he hates Mexicans, blacks, hispanics or how he wants to displace them just because of their race. I’ll wait.
 

Hacky McAxe

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Agreed.

While no credible scientist is saying climate change starts fires, quite a few commentators (talking heads and ordinary people) are speaking as though climate change is the major factor of these fires, and many are speaking as if it ignited them. This is demonstrably the sentiment in the majority of comments on every SMH article regarding these matters.
There are some member of the general public that are saying it. But I don't think I've seen any reporter say that climate change is starting fires.
 

Hacky McAxe

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I mean with your logic, the left have no ground to call trump a racist. Find me a quote straight from him explicitly him saying he hates Mexicans, blacks, hispanics or how he wants to displace them just because of their race. I’ll wait.
Agreed. I also never said he was a racist.
 

Realist90

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Agreed. I also never said he was a racist.
Hacky. Come on. Lol.
Anyways just on trump quickly. Do remember the dems criticising trump being weak on the retaliation to Iran shooting an unarmed drone and also with North Korea. But as soon as he takes justified action he is now a war mongorer bringing on the end of the world lol. Also gotta love how msm made it like it was innocent people storming the us embassy in Iraq.
 

Nexus

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Forgive my ignorance, however what does msm stand for?
 

Realist90

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Forgive my ignorance, however what does msm stand for?
Mainstream media aka cnn, msnbc, smh, guardian, vox, vice, buzzfeed, nbc, bbc, abc. Essentially all media besides Fox News and sky news
 

Nexus

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Mainstream media aka cnn, msnbc, smh, guardian, vox, vice, buzzfeed, nbc, bbc, abc. Essentially all media besides Fox News and sky news
Ahh gotcha, makes sense. Thanks
 

Hacky McAxe

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Mainstream media aka cnn, msnbc, smh, guardian, vox, vice, buzzfeed, nbc, bbc, abc. Essentially all media besides Fox News and sky news
Nope. Close but nope. MSM is Main Stream Media, meaning any major media. That includes CNN, Fox News, Sky News, The Guardian, etc. News sources aren’t non-MSM just because they're right wing.

Buzzfeed, Vice, Vox aren’t MSM. They're just biased media based advertising.
 

Realist90

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Nope. Close but nope. MSM is Main Stream Media, meaning any major media. That includes CNN, Fox News, Sky News, The Guardian, etc. News sources aren’t non-MSM just because they're right wing.

Buzzfeed, Vice, Vox aren’t MSM. They're just biased media based advertising.
Only two “mainstream” sources are right wing. The rest all left wing hence msm is overwhelmingly in reference to leftist media
 

Hacky McAxe

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Only two “mainstream” sources are right wing. The rest all left wing hence msm is overwhelmingly in reference to leftist media
Fox News, Sky News, Daily Telegraph, The Australian, Nine News, 2GB
 

Realist90

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Fox News, Sky News, Daily Telegraph, The Australian, Nine News, 2GB
Dailytelegraph right wing? Lolll they putting articles on a daily almost about feminism, gays, trannies etc.
Ok you’ve included one American news sources and 4 Australian. You call that
Msm? Lol
Also channel 9 right wing? What in the fuck lol
Aren’t they the guys that changed the formula of the footy show to be more appealing to Whamen and safe.
Nice try grasping at “straws” as you put it
 

Hacky McAxe

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Dailytelegraph right wing? Lolll they putting articles on a daily almost about feminism, gays, trannies etc.
Ok you’ve included one American news sources and 4 Australian. You call that
Msm? Lol
Also channel 9 right wing? What in the fuck lol
Aren’t they the guys that changed the formula of the footy show to be more appealing to Whamen and safe.
Nice try grasping at “straws” as you put it
You are the first person I've met who doesn't think Daily Telegraph is right wing.

I guess if you're that far right then everyone else will be considered "left"

I'll remind you that Miranda Devine and Andrew Bolt write for the Daily Telegraph.
 

Hacky McAxe

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While I don't think this is entirely accurate, it's about as close as I've seen

 
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