Burton is just a centre (March 23)

[Marki]

A

No one can ever answer that question when you ask it bro.. And if they do, they say something laughable like Josh Reynolds or Flanagan..

When you ask who we should sign from another club, you get crickets or even worse suggestions. People that want to move Burton from the halves fail to acknowledge that there are no good halves available and even less coming through. Look at Sam Walker.. Lots of people were saying we should have got him instead of Burton and now he's in Reserve Grade. People suggest Ben Hunt but he's been horrible for Saints and plays his best footy at hooker. Plus he's 34/35 and would cost a tonne..

Once again, we have no other option but to be patient with KO and Burton and hope they start to click together.

Again, you find every reason under the sun to NOT get a better player and look for any fault you can find...

Walker is shit coz he's in reserves? Really?
I'd swap him with Burton in a heartbeat.

 

[Marki]

Your argument about try assists from kicks has no merit. A try assist is a try assist. The vast majority of Adam Reynolds try assists are from kicks. Same with Sherwin when he was in his prime. Neither of those two had great passing games but they were among the best halves in the comp.

Obviously Burton's kicking game isn't at that level yet and he needs to improve his passing game massively but he sets up most of our tries and is one of our only threats in attack. To suggest dropping him or putting him at centre or fullback is fairytale stuff because a) it won't happen and b) there's no one better to play instead of him.

I dont dismiss try assists from kicks if it's part of your play-making arsenal.

But if it's 90% of it, then yes I start to question it. Especially in a team that is lacking some go-forward and lacks the ability to create line breaks from middle of the field through deft passing (or running for that matter).

Your example of AR is a good one. He creates many tries from kicks
But he also creates them with a very good passing game or through his running.

 

[1967]

Nah. If Burton needs support in the halves, he needs the fullback to play as second ball-player.

I'd put Averillo back at fullback to allow him to link with Burton and maybe take some pressure off him.

People saying Averillo can’t play 6 because he’s not a ball-player, yet now he can be a ball-player in the 1.

I have no idea what people have against Averillo playing 6 but I think he’d be lethal in that position ..

Everyone screaming out we have a half’s problem when we could easily have Averillo at 6 and Burton at 7 …

The excuse of he’s a centre is misguided, he’s not powerful enough to be a modern day centre, his 80% tackle efficiency proves that !

 

[Gene Krupa]

And when he’s worth 1.2-1.5 you will all be saying gus was a genius

Trust me, no I won't.

 

[1967]

No one can ever answer that question when you ask it bro.. And if they do, they say something laughable like Josh Reynolds or Flanagan..

When you ask who we should sign from another club, you get crickets or even worse suggestions. People that want to move Burton from the halves fail to acknowledge that there are no good halves available and even less coming through. Look at Sam Walker.. Lots of people were saying we should have got him instead of Burton and now he's in Reserve Grade. People suggest Ben Hunt but he's been horrible for Saints and plays his best footy at hooker. Plus he's 34/35 and would cost a tonne..

Once again, we have no other option but to be patient with KO and Burton and hope they start to click together.

I wouldn’t say no one can answer the question … I’ve answered it numerous times …

Our halfs should be Averillo 6, Burton 7 …. and bring in a specialist half’s coach .. Maloney would be great, what’s he doing ..

Most clubs have a specialist half’s coach … we don’t and we’re a team with a half’s problem ..

Those saying Averillo can’t play 6 … why can’t he …… he has an excellent running game, passing game, can ball-play, step and is elusive.

Those that don’t agree he has those skills shouldn’t be wanting him at FB because he’d need similar skills up in the line to be effective.

We already have Crichton coming and 90% sure he’ll play in the 1 ..

 

[Shreksno1]

A
Walker is shit coz he's in reserves? Really?
I'd swap him with Burton in a heartbeat.

Do it in your fantasy league champ cos it sure as hell ain’t happening in our first grade team.

 

[belmore_utd]

Here we go again....
An established player might come onto the market and we are once again second guessing whether he will do a job for us and questioning whether he would be value for money.

It amazes me the amount of money this club would throw at the word "prospect" or "potential" but the minute the word "established" or "representative" comes into the market, some of you squirm and stress about it.....

Really amazes me.

How well has the word "potential" worked for us in the last 5 or 6 years?

Might have something to do with the value we have got out of established and representative players we have bought.


Just a guess though

 

[B-Train]

I wouldn’t say no one can answer the question … I’ve answered it numerous times …

Our halfs should be Averillo 6, Burton 7 …. and bring in a specialist half’s coach .. Maloney would be great, what’s he doing ..

Most clubs have a specialist half’s coach … we don’t and we’re a team with a half’s problem ..

Those saying Averillo can’t play 6 … why can’t he …… he has an excellent running game, passing game, can ball-play, step and is elusive.

Those that don’t agree he has those skills shouldn’t be wanting him at FB because he’d need similar skills up in the line to be effective.

We already have Crichton coming and 90% sure he’ll play in the 1 ..

Where does Oloapu play if Averillo is in the halves? I think Averillo is either a centre or fullback. I'd rather persist with Oloapu in the halves. He needs to rest of this season to get experience and valuable reps.

 

[B-Train]

A
Again, you find every reason under the sun to NOT get a better player and look for any fault you can find...

Walker is shit coz he's in reserves? Really?
I'd swap him with Burton in a heartbeat.

I didn't say Walker is shit. I'm saying even other hyped youngsters like him have their flaws too. I'd rather have Burton but I'd take Walker as his halves partner. He has a tonne of talent.

 

[Lynchpin]

I'd swap him with Burton in a heartbeat.

That says far more about you than Burton.

 

[billy beane]

No one can ever answer that question when you ask it bro.. And if they do, they say something laughable like Josh Reynolds or Flanagan..

When you ask who we should sign from another club, you get crickets or even worse suggestions. People that want to move Burton from the halves fail to acknowledge that there are no good halves available and even less coming through. Look at Sam Walker.. Lots of people were saying we should have got him instead of Burton and now he's in Reserve Grade. People suggest Ben Hunt but he's been horrible for Saints and plays his best footy at hooker. Plus he's 34/35 and would cost a tonne..

Once again, we have no other option but to be patient with KO and Burton and hope they start to click together.

I find it strange that you can be a massive defender of Burton but at the same time savage the likes of Ben Hunt and before that Mitchell Moses.

If you think a combo of Burton and KO is moving us forward anytime soon .... good luck.

 

[WillieMasonFan]

Burto's future is definitely in the halves. Lots more problems to sort out before we start looking at this issue, eg. tackling attitude/commitment, getting a fullback in place that can attack as part of the team, getting some key forwards into better condition/fitness .... the list goes on.

 

[B-Train]

I find it strange that you can be a massive defender of Burton but at the same time savage the likes of Ben Hunt and before that Mitchell Moses.

If you think a combo of Burton and KO is moving us forward anytime soon .... good luck.

I've been critical of Burton all season. But we've signed him long term and Hunt wouldn't make any difference. Not as a halfback at his age or price. Again, his best footy is when he plays hooker. They just moved him from halfback two games ago because their attack was struggling and he's better at hooker.

If we're going to sign a halfback, I'd rather sign someone where that's their best position, not hooker.

 

[kmr07]

No one can ever answer that question when you ask it bro.. And if they do, they say something laughable like Josh Reynolds or Flanagan..

When you ask who we should sign from another club, you get crickets or even worse suggestions. People that want to move Burton from the halves fail to acknowledge that there are no good halves available and even less coming through. Look at Sam Walker.. Lots of people were saying we should have got him instead of Burton and now he's in Reserve Grade. People suggest Ben Hunt but he's been horrible for Saints and plays his best footy at hooker. Plus he's 34/35 and would cost a tonne..

Once again, we have no other option but to be patient with KO and Burton and hope they start to click together.

100%. I’m all for trying things to improve the team but it’s obvious there are no better options than Burton at the moment. People have short memories. Last season JAC and Burton developed a great combo and I’m sure that would have been stronger this year had injuries not played a part, especially with Kikau becoming a threat on that side too. They trained all preseason together and before we got to see it injuries disrupted the whole structure.

Even this year as “bad” as Burton is supposedly going, without him we probably have one win on the board. He has played a part in the majority of our tries.

 

[1967]

Where does Oloapu play if Averillo is in the halves? I think Averillo is either a centre or fullback. I'd rather persist with Oloapu in the halves. He needs to rest of this season to get experience and valuable reps.

Here’s my take on it and it’s JMO ..

Oloapu’s just recently turned 18, he’s going to have a lot of ups and downs before he becomes a very good seasoned 1st grader, and everyone one of those up and down times will toughen him up and make him a better player …. the kids played 3 games and TK want him as our full time 6, some even as our full time 7 managing the team around the park, sorry but that’s crazy .. as soon as he has his down games TK and fans will rip him a new one .. I’ve already seen fans knocking on him already ..

I’d like to see him back in NSW Cup with specialised day to day focused coaching in both the 6 and the 13 role, when we play easier opposition that we should technically be able to beat, have him on the bench, bring him on to play with no pressure when we’re in front where he can play his natural game playing either 6 giving Averillo a break or take over as 13 .. he’d get plenty of games that way and we’d be responsibly bringing him into 1st grade gradually .. most of these young kids coming in to early to play in the half’s are generally ending up back in cup footy because they weren’t ready and ended up with to much responsibility to soon.

Seems these days if you aren’t an instant superstar they don’t want to know you, what happened to coaching and training players to become superstars … I know we go on about Flanagan, but I didn’t see any improvement in him the 3 years he was here, who was helping him, giving him one on one coaching to help him improve, who was helping improve his kicking game, his running game, who was teaching him how to manage a team from the 7 position, whoever it was should be sacked because they didn’t improve him one bit in 3 years.

5/6 years ago you’d be laughed at saying you we putting a young 18 year old into the full time 6 or 7 role ..

Averillo’s 22, he’s now played 64 1st grade Nrl games, he’s just coming into his own … he’s definitely ready to be lethal in the 6 jersey.

If Oloapu is patient, works damn hard on his game he will have his chance and be a better player for it !

 

[B-Train]

Here’s my take on it and it’s JMO ..

Oloapu’s just recently turned 18, he’s going to have a lot of ups and downs before he becomes a very good seasoned 1st grader, and everyone one of those up and down times will toughen him up and make him a better player …. the kids played 3 games and TK want him as our full time 6, some even as our full time 7 managing the team around the park, sorry but that’s crazy .. as soon as he has his down games TK and fans will rip him a new one .. I’ve already seen fans knocking on him already ..

I’d like to see him back in NSW Cup with specialised day to day focused coaching in both the 6 and the 13 role, when we play easier opposition that we should technically be able to beat, have him on the bench, bring him on to play when we’re in front where he can play his natural game playing either 6 giving Averillo a break or take over as 13 .. he’d get plenty of games that way and we’d be responsibly bringing him into 1st grade gradually .. most of these young kids coming in to early to play in the half’s are generally ending up back in cup footy because they weren’t ready and ended up with to much responsibility to soon.

Seems these days if you aren’t an instant superstar they don’t want to know you, what happened to coaching and training players to become superstars … I know we go on about Flanagan, but I didn’t see any improvement in him the 3 years he was here, who was helping him, giving him one on one coaching to help him improve, who was helping improve his kicking game, his running game, who was teaching him how to manage a team from the 7 position, whoever it was should be sacked because they didn’t improve him one bit in 3 years.

5/6 years ago you’d be laughed at saying you we putting a young 18 year old into the full time 6 or 7 role ..

Averillo’s 22, he’s now played 64 1st grade Nrl games, he’s just coming into his own … he’s definitely ready to be lethal in the 6 jersey.

If Oloapu is patient, works damn hard in his game he will have his chance.

Oloapu played Reserves and handled it well. He's ready for FG physically. He just needs FG experience. We're not a threat to do anything this season anyway so play him the rest of the way and let him learn. He'll be better for it in the long run.

 

[kmr07]

Once again you have to look deeper than just the "try assists" column.

His try assists are probably 90% from kicks (just my guess - not taken from any stats).

Of those, some are from early tackle kicks within the 20m line and others are Hail Mary bombs and opposition errors created from defensive half or middle of the park.

What I'm saying is that he can do the Hail Mary bombs from centre position (just like SOO). The grubber ones closer to the tryline need him in the halves as do the cross field kicks to flying wingers.

The issue however is that these are pot luck plays. They don't improve your rugby league team.

In my opinion, and for the betterment of the team, I'd play our best and most creative ball playing halves in the halves and shift him to centre.

Who you ask? Well from what I've seen in the last couple of seasons, it would have to be Rajab and probably JR although him not being able to play 80mins makes it a tough choice. Averillo is another choice but I reckon he might be better used at fullback.

It's obvious to me that CC has used subtle hints to get Burton to ball-play more. But I reckon even he is starting to think it may not end up being his forte....

Lol Averillo in the halves? Do you have a short memory? Yes the guy could run but he could not end a set to save his life. His last tackle options were atrocious.

Besides, Averillo has been a shining light attack wise this season. Probably our most potent attacking back this year. Why would you move him from there in an already struggling attack?

You said it JR cannot play 80 mins.. so why mention him as an option?

Rajab.. have you watched NSW cup? The guy is doing ok without being great consistently.. you need to smash NSW cup before playing NRL and even then it’s not guaranteed to work out well.

 

[Shire Dog]

Where does Oloapu play if Averillo is in the halves? I think Averillo is either a centre or fullback. I'd rather persist with Oloapu in the halves. He needs to rest of this season to get experience and valuable reps.

Agree KO needs this season to build confidence and form a good combination with Burton.
The only thing in my opinion is that he should be starting games and playing right through if possible, time for Josh to move aside.

 

[1967]

Oloapu played Reserves and handled it well. He's ready for FG physically. He just needs FG experience. We're not a threat to do anything this season anyway so play him the rest of the way and let him learn. He'll be better for it in the long run.

I haven’t written the year off yet, I believe we can still make a run for the 8 which would be a great spring board into 2024.

Personally I believe we already have the talent in the team that we need to make that run, I just question whether we have those players playing in the right positions to get that result and whether CC is willing to move players around like potter did to see what they’re capable of.

I’m open to KO in the full time 6 role for the remainder of the season if the coaches are going to allow him to call the shots, unshackled him and allow him to play his natural game.

Preferably I think we’re a better chance of finals footy next year with Mahoney, Averillo, Burton and Crichton in the spine, KO off the bench.

But for the rest of the year put Averillo to FB and KO to 6, but they’ve got to be allowed to play their own natural game not be told how they’re to play ..

 

[Shanked]

its been said many times before, the club has done every half we've had since kimmorley dirty by not getting someone with experience to help the younger one out, I guess you could count foran, but he was spending more time in rehab then he was on the field. It's no different with burton. now you just give him experience and live with the lumps until he matures as he's here til 2027.