Opinion Bulldogs Dodge Bullet With Brandon Smith

djdeep4172

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How is mahoney a Queenslander "our Junior" ?
Mahoney started his football in Queensland, playing for the Kawana Dolphins and Beerwah Bulldogs as junior. Before being scouted by the Canterbury-Bankstown Bulldogs for their SG ball team. After playing for Canterbury's Under 20's side, Mahoney was released by the club midway through the year after Canterbury declared he would never play first grade and rejected the offer of $1500 to keep him.
 

TwinTurbo

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Because Uncle Nick would cut off their legacy payments from Cayman Island accounts.

I think the realistic explanation is that they don't want to implicate themselves in any wrongdoing and open themselves up to any investigations or audits, even after their careers are over.

Your boy Fletch constantly alludes to the brown paper bags. Even Brandon Smith mentioned how they set you up for life and look after your financial interests after your career is over.
Possibly signed an NDA that if they reveal anything they have to pay back whatever they got. Plus the ATO would be after them for the unpaid tax on any undeclared income, plus penalties and interest. Could be a very expensive headline, that the spin merchants at the Chooks would turn around in 24 hours.

What is required is a bounty, anyone who rats out the Chooks gets immunity from prosecution and any money lost as a result gets refunded. Plus $100k, make it $200k, bonus for their testimony and all evidence provided.


Always a Bulldog
 

KambahOne

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Because Uncle Nick would cut off their legacy payments from Cayman Island accounts.

I think the realistic explanation is that they don't want to implicate themselves in any wrongdoing and open themselves up to any investigations or audits, even after their careers are over.
Those are not a realistic explanations, they are massive assumptions. And seriously, you don't think a disgruntled ex-player or employee could come forward to testify against us with a deal of immunity to reveal our "Oasis" type rort to the league? With the player and employee turn over we've had over the decades, none of them felt compelled to turn us in?

Did your club ever find out who dobbed you guys in? I've never seen a name associated with that? Same with the storm, never seen a name ousted for their breach?

Your boy Fletch constantly alludes to the brown paper bags. Even Brandon Smith mentioned how they set you up for life and look after your financial interests after your career is over.
Fletch also constantly states we have $600K to spend in our cap, he's well known for talking shit.

And if you're club doesn't assist players to get their shit together for a post football life, than that is a failing as most clubs have programs they run to help players plan for retirement. And let's not forget, it's part of the role of the player manager to assist their chargers have a life after footy and if they can get that from a club that has a program to help players, why wouldn't they advise their client to go to that particular club, it makes business sense.
 

Cappuccino

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How is mahoney a Queenslander "our Junior" ?
Just remember, Eels claimed him as their junior too lol

Reed Mahoney is an Eels junior, joining the Club in 2017 and went with the Eels National Youth Competition (NYC) side to the grand final. In 2018 he played off the bench for the Queensland U20 squad that won the State of Origin match against New South Wales
 

KambahOne

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Possibly signed an NDA that if they reveal anything they have to pay back whatever they got. Plus the ATO would be after them for the unpaid tax on any undeclared income, plus penalties and interest. Could be a very expensive headline, that the spin merchants at the Chooks would turn around in 24 hours.

What is required is a bounty, anyone who rats out the Chooks gets immunity from prosecution and any money lost as a result gets refunded. Plus $100k, make it $200k, bonus for their testimony and all evidence provided.


Always a Bulldog
LOL, you can't hold someone to an NDA in the course of committing a crime. And immunity is often offered to whistelblowers so why haven't any blown on us?
 

B-Train

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Those are not a realistic explanations, they are massive assumptions. And seriously, you don't think a disgruntled ex-player or employee could come forward to testify against us with a deal of immunity to reveal our "Oasis" type rort to the league? With the player and employee turn over we've had over the decades, none of them felt compelled to turn us in?

Did your club ever find out who dobbed you guys in? I've never seen a name associated with that? Same with the storm, never seen a name ousted for their breach?



Fletch also constantly states we have $600K to spend in our cap, he's well known for talking shit.

And if you're club doesn't assist players to get their shit together for a post football life, than that is a failing as most clubs have programs they run to help players plan for retirement. And let's not forget, it's part of the role of the player manager to assist their chargers have a life after footy and if they can get that from a club that has a program to help players, why wouldn't they advise their client to go to that particular club, it makes business sense.
You referenced the Storm and that kind of answers your question. How could the Storm get caught for cheating the cap to win comps and other teams get caught for cheating the cap (like Parra) that don't even make the 8 yet the Roosters never cheat the cap despite having more talent than any other club over the past decade plus?

I put zero stock in what that clown Fletcher says. But I think there's some truth behind that joke he always makes.
 

KambahOne

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You referenced the Storm and that kind of answers your question. How could the Storm get caught for cheating the cap to win comps and other teams get caught for cheating the cap (like Parra) that don't even make the 8 yet the Roosters never cheat the cap despite having more talent than any other club over the past decade plus?
Parra noted their cap breaches in the board minutes, so they deserve no further explanation. But in regards to the storm and yourselves, there are precedents where whistleblowers have been given immunity from identification let alone prosecution for revealing those breaches, so why haven't we been exposed if as you say, we've been doing it for years for a multitude of players and employees? It makes no sense.

I put zero stock in what that clown Fletcher says. But I think there's some truth behind that joke he always makes.
Which joke, the paper bags or the $600K? :smirk:
 

wendog33

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It's not just Fletch. There's Finch and Johns and others.

Anybody currently in NRL media would be run out of town if they exposed this....with the backing of NRLol heirachy probs.
 

TwinTurbo

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LOL, you can't hold someone to an NDA in the course of committing a crime. And immunity is often offered to whistelblowers so why haven't any blown on us?
Being paid off Cap is absolutely not a crime and if they declared income on their tax return then there is no issue there either. Winning, say, a golfing prize if you are not a professional player is not an issue, same as winning at gambling. Ever so easy to write an enforceable NDA for those sorts of activities, that are not illegal but are in contravention of the Salary Cap.

Two contracts as per the Melbourne Salary Cap rort is a crime though, it's called fraud.

Always a Bulldog
 
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KambahOne

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Being paid off Cap is absolutely not a crime and if they declared income on their tax return then there is no issue there either. Winning, say, a golfing prize if you are not a professional player is not an issue, same as winning at gambling. Ever so easy to write an enforceable NDA for those sorts of activities, that are not illegal but are in contravention of the Salary Cap.

Two contracts as per the Melbourne Salary Cap rort is a crime though, it's called fraud.

Always a Bulldog
lol, you certainly can split a hair, but it's all your assumptions so go for it.

You cannot enforce an NDA on a player to breach their obligations to the NRL to not take unauthorised money outside the cap, regardless of where it comes from, it's called coercion and that makes the NDA illegal.
 

Flanagun

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And yet not one of these "expendables" has ever stepped forward to reveal the paper bags or any of the other under table payments we've supposed to have made to them during their tenure at the club? I've always wondered why, perhaps you can explain it?
I can't remember one single salary cap scandal which has been leaked by a disgruntled player, Fam..... what would a player say? I admit to knowingly receiving under the table payments? Most players I know of who have been implicated in salary cap dramas have denied all knowledge. It's almost as if being seen to be complicit in such a scam, would be a bad thing. Namaste
 

TwinTurbo

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lol, you certainly can split a hair, but it's all your assumptions so go for it.

You cannot enforce an NDA on a player to breach their obligations to the NRL to not take unauthorised money outside the cap, regardless of where it comes from, it's called coercion and that makes the NDA illegal.
An NDA that says something like "you agree not to reveal any confidential information as deemed to be so by the Chairman in advance". Let's say Chairman to player "Just between you and me, I have feeling that I am going to shank the next shot and you will win the $10k bonus". Bingo, enforceable NDA.


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KambahOne

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An NDA that says something like "you agree not to reveal any confidential information as deemed to be so by the Chairman in advance". Let's say Chairman to player "Just between you and me, I have feeling that I am going to shank the next shot and you will win the $10k bonus". Bingo, enforceable NDA.


Always a Bulldog
It's called coercion mate and you cannot enforce an NDA that stipulates a breach of an existing contract. If the player in the above scenario has a registered contract with the NRL, than the NDA is illegal.
 

TwinTurbo

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It's called coercion mate and you cannot enforce an NDA that stipulates a breach of an existing contract. If the player in the above scenario has a registered contract with the NRL, than the NDA is illegal.
Wining a golf hole prize (or other legal gambling winnings) is a way of getting around the Salary Cap, no NRL contracts are being breached.

What is the coercion anyway? The player has already signed the NRL contract, what is he being coerced into doing? It's just a bonus that he wins a $100k or so a season gambling with the Chairman. When contract renewal comes around just because he remembers winning sometimes of course that wouldn't be coercing him into re-signing. It's no more coercion that a succulent Chinese meal.

Of course I'm just using gambling winnings as simple to understand methodology used to reduce the Cap value whilst still being attractive to the player. There are plenty of others, it's like TPA's the Club isn't allowed to "guarantee" them, they just happen totally independently. FWIW there are a few TPA's covered by NDA's on the player, the Club of course can release the details in confidence to the NRL when/if asked.

As someone pointed out there is far too much smoke around the Chooks ability to year after year attract a team full of stars for there to be no fire.


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KambahOne

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Wining a golf hole prize (or other legal gambling winnings) is a way of getting around the Salary Cap, no NRL contracts are being breached.

What is the coercion anyway? The player has already signed the NRL contract, what is he being coerced into doing? It's just a bonus that he wins a $100k or so a season gambling with the Chairman. When contract renewal comes around just because he remembers winning sometimes of course that wouldn't be coercing him into re-signing. It's no more coercion that a succulent Chinese meal.

Of course I'm just using gambling winnings as simple to understand methodology used to reduce the Cap value whilst still being attractive to the player. There are plenty of others, it's like TPA's the Club isn't allowed to "guarantee" them, they just happen totally independently. FWIW there are a few TPA's covered by NDA's on the player, the Club of course can release the details in confidence to the NRL when/if asked.

As someone pointed out there is far too much smoke around the Chooks ability to year after year attract a team full of stars for there to be no fire.


Always a Bulldog
If the player has a registered contract with the NRL, he is contractually obligated not to accept unauthorised monies outside what he gets paid as part of that contract. If the club tables an NDA that says "We'll give you extra money outside your contract as long as you don't say anything", the club is coercing the player into breaching his registered contract with the NRL and it makes the NDA illegal and therefore unenforceable. How can you not understand that?
 

TwinTurbo

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If the player has a registered contract with the NRL, he is contractually obligated not to accept unauthorised monies outside what he gets paid as part of that contract. If the club tables an NDA that says "We'll give you extra money outside your contract as long as you don't say anything", the club is coercing the player into breaching his registered contract with the NRL and it makes the NDA illegal and therefore unenforceable. How can you not understand that?
That's not true, players can earn (and win) anything they like outside of their NRL contract, that's how TPA's operate (or more correctly are supposed to operate). Players boxing for example and getting paid decent $'s, they are not breaching any NRL rules doing that. Or getting paid for appearances on Foxtel, radio etc. You can bet the media companies will have NDA's in place, they generally do, especially for contracted (not on staff) presenters.

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KambahOne

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That's not true, players can earn (and win) anything they like outside of their NRL contract, that's how TPA's operate (or more correctly are supposed to operate). Players boxing for example and getting paid decent $'s, they are not breaching any NRL rules doing that. Or getting paid for appearances on Foxtel, radio etc. You can bet the media companies will have NDA's in place, they generally do, especially for contracted (not on staff) presenters.

Always a Bulldog
It is true because like contracts, TPA's (which include boxing matches and presenter duties) have to be registered and approved with the NRL.

Do clubs breach the cap, absolutely, every year we hear of this club or that one (even mine) breaching the cap to the tune of 50-500 grand and many times they self-report when discovered as it's simply bad book keeping. I'm half expecting us to get breached next year with all the second tier players we used this year due to the injuries.

But the days or systemic rorting in the same vein as yours or the Storm set up are long gone as it's been proven you can't keep them secret. Players talk, employees talk, eventually someone who's involved either gets cold feet or ushered out the door and they spill the beans.

The fact you believe my club is involved in one of those types of rorts and has gotten away with it for this long is both insulting and complementary at the same time.
 

TwinTurbo

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It is true because like contracts, TPA's (which include boxing matches and presenter duties) have to be registered and approved with the NRL.

Do clubs breach the cap, absolutely, every year we hear of this club or that one (even mine) breaching the cap to the tune of 50-500 grand and many times they self-report when discovered as it's simply bad book keeping. I'm half expecting us to get breached next year with all the second tier players we used this year due to the injuries.

But the days or systemic rorting in the same vein as yours or the Storm set up are long gone as it's been proven you can't keep them secret. Players talk, employees talk, eventually someone who's involved either gets cold feet or ushered out the door and they spill the beans.

The fact you believe my club is involved in one of those types of rorts and has gotten away with it for this long is both insulting and complementary at the same time.
Absolutely complementary, Politis has done a fantastic job for over a decade of getting players to the Chooks that would not otherwise go anywhere near them. This has enabled them to be consistently competitive which then adds to their attraction. Which he does by skirting around the rules very skillfully, and/or bending the rules to suite his objective and then getting the NRL to agree to them. What the NRL should do is release to the other clubs whatever clarifications on rules that they have issued (same as the ATO does). For example Cronk's $250k Harvard "scholarship" ($140k Harvard fees over 3 years and $110k for living expenses), most NRL clubs assumed that it was limited to Australian tertiary educations institutions and did not include living expenses in another country. It wouldn't have to be specific just that "overseas tertiary education and expenses are allowed".

The NRL's objectives with the Salary Cap (one of which is evening up the competition) should extend to clarifications provided to all clubs on any items that are ruled to be exempt that may not be obvious from the regs themselves. They don't do that and they absolutely should, otherwise they are working against their own objective by allowing one club to exploit loopholes to the disadvantage of the other clubs. If the Salary Cap is the same for all clubs then the interpretations of it should be the same.

FWIW, there wouldn't be any "contracts" for golf matches with the Chairman, maybe to cover arse the player could certify as to his golf handicap with the NRL. Or maybe provide a stat dec that he is a poker machine addict. Cash is hard to trace, especially after it has been washed through gambling.


Always a Bulldog
 
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