Are we able to sign anyone now?

[Nasheed]

Nasheed here,
We need to focus on our own first.
Lock up Lewis and Foran on a reduced deal and go from there.

In all this carnage, even if all teams survive there's going to be some regurgitation and upheaval. Players getting homesick, still worried about the Rona etc
I just think in a weird time like this, a few surprises are bound to happen.

 

[Nasheed]

^Sorry for the introduction, I didn't realise I've been in the thread already. You guys must have thought I was going bonkers seeing 'Nasheed here' twice.

 

[Tassie Devil]

Nasheed here,
We need to focus on our own first.
Lock up Lewis and Foran on a reduced deal and go from there.

In all this carnage, even if all teams survive there's going to be some regurgitation and upheaval. Players getting homesick, still worried about the Rona etc
I just think in a weird time like this, a few surprises are bound to happen.

Agree about Foran. Gotta get him on a new deal as there's simply no one else near his quality out there to get. Lewis ... I'll leave to @Sancho2020 to explain about whether to extend his deal or not ...

 

[Nasheed]

Agree about Foran. Gotta get him on a new deal as there's simply no one else near his quality out there to get. Lewis ... I'll leave to @Sancho2020 to explain about whether to extend his deal or not ...

Foran with a year off to get fit is definitely a good signing on a year by year basis at a reasonable rate. 600k year to year should do it.

 

[Tassie Devil]

Foran with a year off to get fit is definitely a good signing on a year by year basis at a reasonable rate. 600k year to year should do it.

Haha mate. You sure know how to stoke some discussion on here. Master of it in fact and shouldn't go unnoticed.

600k. People will tear you up for that!

 

[Nasheed]

Haha mate. You sure know how to stoke some discussion on here. Master of it in fact and shouldn't go unnoticed.

600k. People will tear you up for that!

600 a year today is just 'slightly slicker than yo average' half.

Forans mush better than your average half just made of an aluminium can.

600 gets u a player like Moylan atm (His last contract he got more) or Brooks, and I suspect Johnson if he became a free agent after a woeful year. And Foran is better than those guys.

Gutho, Green and Cody Walker are all around 650 dudes and Michael Moses, Adam Reynolds aRe 700 guys.

Cleary, Townsend and Morgan are all 800 and Pearce Hunt, The manly guy and Cam Smith are all all milllion plus, even Ash Taylor! so if you look at it, Forans at least a 800k player and we get him at a quarter off discount due to injury concerns.

This is of course assuming the cap doesn't reduce.

Another way of looking at it is if we don't offer our man a contract, St George, Tigers or Titans will gladly give him a lazy 6k, and failing that manly.newcastle or Cronulla (if they unload a player) or whoever would happily gamble on 500

 

[Nasheed]

An alternative strategy is to offer a 2 year 450k deal and hold his nuts to the wall but I don't really think that's a good idea. It's an unethical jewish tactic and I just can't see them facing the fans saying they signed Kieran to a 2 ye deal regardless of the price tag.
He misses another 8 games in 2021 then the fans will quickly forget about that special nut nailing price bargain, fans would only forgive that if it was something like 350 a year but that's backup half price and I think if Kieran doesn't spit in Hills eyes at that offer, he would simply sign the deal and not bother and say to himself 'u screw me, how about I screw U'.

 

[Nasheed]

You know what Steve u actually made me think a bit.

maybe we can sign him in a 2 year deal at 500, with a clause like Darius Boyd that he plays at least 20 games a year to activate year 2. Everybody wins on that.

 

[Tassie Devil]

It's an unethical jewish tactic

Jeez mate. You know how to stir up shit on here, don't you? Master of it, and the Kennel should be paying some kind of commission for all the talking points your comments have ...

 

[Tassie Devil]

You know what Steve u actually made me think a bit.

maybe we can sign him in a 2 year deal at 500, with a clause like Darius Boyd that he plays at least 20 games a year to activate year 2. Everybody wins on that.

In my mind it's a no-brainer that you extend Foran's contract. Absolute no-brainer. Realise many people will disagree but name me someone out there that's available in 2021 who's better than him?

Yes, he gets injured. 100%. In my mind it's not really the fact that he gets injured so often, it's that he's on over a $1m a year. If he were on, let's say, 450,000 a year I don't think there'd be as many critics of him out there. On his day he's an absolutely outstanding player and someone our side desperately needs. If he were fit for the whole year, I really do think we would make the top 8.

The question is how much you pay him. Personally I'd sign him up on a basic 300k on the first year with an option in the club's favour of an extra year. That first year has automatic clauses where he gets additional money for every game played so it could, let's say, rise to 450k for the year.

I'd put a stipulation that he can't play international footy also.

 

[TwinTurbo]

In my mind it's a no-brainer that you extend Foran's contract. Absolute no-brainer. Realise many people will disagree but name me someone out there that's available in 2021 who's better than him?

Yes, he gets injured. 100%. In my mind it's not really the fact that he gets injured so often, it's that he's on over a $1m a year. If he were on, let's say, 450,000 a year I don't think there'd be as many critics of him out there. On his day he's an absolutely outstanding player and someone our side desperately needs. If he were fit for the whole year, I really do think we would make the top 8.

The question is how much you pay him. Personally I'd sign him up on a basic 300k on the first year with an option in the club's favour of an extra year. That first year has automatic clauses where he gets additional money for every game played so it could, let's say, rise to 450k for the year.

I'd put a stipulation that he can't play international footy also.

The problem is the Cap doesn’t work that way, the NRL would assume the maximum payment and that’s what they would include in our Cap. It wouldn’t matter if he didn’t actually get paid that much. That’s why Boyd’s contract rewarded more games played with a contract extension NOT more money.

Go Dogs

 

[Tassie Devil]

The problem is the Cap doesn’t work that way, the NRL would assume the maximum payment and that’s what they would include in our Cap. It wouldn’t matter if he didn’t actually get paid that much. That’s why Boyd’s contract rewarded more games played with a contract extension NOT more money.

Go Dogs

Got ya. So we'd then have to have a minimum amount for the first year e.g. 350k. Then the second year is an option for contract extension for the club which could be 550k if he plays a certain number of games. Is this what you're saying?

 

[Nasheed]

Got ya. So we'd then have to have a minimum amount for the first year e.g. 350k. Then the second year is an option for contract extension for the club which could be 550k if he plays a certain number of games. Is this what you're saying?

I'd say my last idea of a Boyd style contract extension at a good rate for all.
Foran would go for a deal like this as it helps his future if he can do it. He's dead in the MRL anyway if he can't.

there's one problem, or maybe it's a good thing.

he will play safe to not get injured. Not sure if that's a player who we want playing within himself.
Tailololo runs at him and he might get out of the way.

but at the same time, I've heard criticism that he takes the line on too much, so maybe playing back is a good thing?

for me, I like when he's in warrior mode though and unpredictable. In 2019 he was sensational when he played. His new wife must let him do anal or something because he is playing with passion and like a man.

 

[CrittaMagic69]

Agree about Foran. Gotta get him on a new deal as there's simply no one else near his quality out there to get. Lewis ... I'll leave to @Sancho2020 to explain about whether to extend his deal or not ...

I was ignoring his post..

 

[TwinTurbo]

Got ya. So we'd then have to have a minimum amount for the first year e.g. 350k. Then the second year is an option for contract extension for the club which could be 550k if he plays a certain number of games. Is this what you're saying?

That's how Boyd's contract works, but his "incentive" was more about getting him to play better and thus earn a spot in more NRL games then reward him with a contract extension. Foran's situation is rather different, my view is he gives 100% every time he plays, so no real need for an incentive to get him to play better. Nasheed spotted the problem, Foran may back off a bit to avoid getting injured in order to play more games and earn a contract extension. Which isn't really what we want. Not that I think it's in his DNA to ever give less than 100%.

I have always held the view that the salary cap makes too many assumptions, the main one being that a player will be available for 100% of games, never get injured and miss bulk games. Foran is hardly a one off, for example Slater missed basically 2 seasons with his shoulder, TTrbojevic missed a lot of last season etc. I see it as flaw in the Cap enforcement, which has a fundamental objective of evening up the player talent across teams.

Go Dogs

 

[Nasheed]

That's how Boyd's contract works, but his "incentive" was more about getting him to play better and thus earn a spot in more NRL games then reward him with a contract extension. Foran's situation is rather different, my view is he gives 100% every time he plays, so no real need for an incentive to get him to play better. Nasheed spotted the problem, Foran may back off a bit to avoid getting injured in order to play more games and earn a contract extension. Which isn't really what we want. Not that I think it's in his DNA to ever give less than 100%.

I have always held the view that the salary cap makes too many assumptions, the main one being that a player will be available for 100% of games, never get injured and miss bulk games. Foran is hardly a one off, for example Slater missed basically 2 seasons with his shoulder, TTrbojevic missed a lot of last season etc. I see it as flaw in the Cap enforcement, which has a fundamental objective of evening up the player talent across teams.

Go Dogs

You're right.
I'll add one though to the final stanza of your post.
The salary cap is an equalizer. But part of the strategy of it is how you do it.

Do you buy the best of the best?
Having the best of the best is good. You'll win comps.... unless you get injured.
As the Chinese say....gam-bool-ing! (This is gambling).

do you jew up and buy cheap? Having cap space for that perfect purchase when it comes round?
See Canterbury 2018.

mod, do you moneyball and not buy stars? But mid strength players across the board? It was John cartwrights motto at Titans with half decent (not premiership winning) success. Panthers did it with much more success but the benefit of cocked juniors. So does it work? U decide?


Personally, I like the Melbourne model.
Identify the Key positions and get quality and fill the other 8 positions with batshit and coach them well. The team is rigid enough to weather bad times and dynamite when full strength.
But you need to get the guys first.
Cam smith is huge in this. His style means he doesn't get injured and doesn't need athleticism. So he can easily get to 500 games. He's a big part of their success. It's why dogs should throw a mil at him for two years. Nasheed.

 

[Howard Moon]

You're right.
I'll add one though to the final stanza of your post.
The salary cap is an equalizer. But part of the strategy of it is how you do it.

Do you buy the best of the best?
Having the best of the best is good. You'll win comps.... unless you get injured.
As the Chinese say....gam-bool-ing! (This is gambling).

do you jew up and buy cheap? Having cap space for that perfect purchase when it comes round?
See Canterbury 2018.

mod, do you moneyball and not buy stars? But mid strength players across the board? It was John cartwrights motto at Titans with half decent (not premiership winning) success. Panthers did it with much more success but the benefit of cocked juniors. So does it work? U decide?


Personally, I like the Melbourne model.
Identify the Key positions and get quality and fill the other 8 positions with batshit and coach them well. The team is rigid enough to weather bad times and dynamite when full strength.
But you need to get the guys first.
Cam smith is huge in this. His style means he doesn't get injured and doesn't need athleticism. So he can easily get to 500 games. He's a big part of their success. It's why dogs should throw a mil at him for two years. Nasheed.

The Storm model is nice and all, but I would not consider their premiership teams to look as such... a few drifters no doubt, but they have generally had quality across the park those years.. their teams in previous seasons resemble that model more and it has not been good enough to get it done

 

[Nasheed]

The Storm model is nice and all, but I would not consider their premiership teams to look as such... a few drifters no doubt, but they have generally had quality across the park those years.. their teams in previous seasons resemble that model more and it has not been good enough to get it done

They rely on a gun hooker, a gun fullback, One gun half, supported by a stable half, one gun forward, surrounded by other big Boppers that just know their designated role in the game. Two black wingers from the Pacific, who are cheap, super athletic/quick and can be replaced wen they get contracts elsewhere, failing that, talk wingers.
Then two centres that are safe and fall into 'best of the rest' category.at least one anyway. Cheese Blair. A talented player but not in the way other teams want him.
It's the formula needed to win and credit to Bellamy for figuring this out. All his teams are like this. Go back 15 years and this is every storm team I just described.

 

[bradyk]

Foran fit = ~1m. Foran missing 1/3 - 1/2 of games (what he's being re-signed on) = ~4-500k. Any more and we persist with Wakeham. I'd like us to buy someone like Milford either way (after him their isn't much and we'd probably have to stick with what we have: Lewis, Averillo or OBO).

 

[Papa Joe]

I think doing a deal or making an offer to players for next year is still very doable.
The club simply offers them a percentage of the the total cap. I believe that alot of current contract would already be like this in the event on the player's behalf " the cap goes up", and in the event on the club's behalf "the cap goes down. For example, if the cap does go down, the club can still fit 30 players in because each individual wage comes down.

IMO, we should be targeting a half.
With Penrith having 4 good halves and only 2 starting spots, I would be targeting Burton or Luai.