ANZ stadium rebuild

[Precise]

credit to the NSW government for the infrastructure work that they've been doing.
Shit that's been talked about for fucking ever, is finally being done.
I can't remember ever in my life, so many large projects all under construction. Off the top of my head there's the west connex (which is basically like building 3 freeways), north connex, Sydney light rail, the northwest rail link, Barangaroo, and the stadiums project, all happening at once.

Fucking this, have you been to the harbor lately as well? I've just gotten back from Brisbane and travel Melbourne regularly because the misses loves it but Sydney for the last few years is steam rolling the other states in development and planned development.

I never thought I would see the day in my life time with an automated train system in Sydney with carriages every 2 minutes like Singapore. The amount of work due over the next 5 years is outstanding and they're planning even more.

Knock the shitty stadiums down and build the best ones in Australia. Glad to finally see develop from my tax dollars I get to use. The NSW government doesn't rely on minerals to drive the economy and what they're doing will make us a top 3 world city in the future even though I feel we already are but shit, the state will be flash and semi futuristic to.

 

[Como Dog]

Happy to refurbish properly or knockdown and rebuild.

Think we need a great stadium with a. great atmosphere that holds 85,000 - 90,000. Don't mind if it's at Moore Park or Homebush.

Can't believe we need to knock down and rebuild both stadiums, particularly with a 75,000 capacity for ANZ and 48,000 capacity for Allianz proposed.

At the end of the day the SFS & SGC Trust seem to wield too much influence and have Stuart Ayres in their pocket. I am still skeptical about how much funding will be given to ANZ. Ayres tried to inflate the reported ANZ costs after initially losing out. After this was unsuccessful suddenly funding is greatly increased, we are rebuilding both stadiums and of course Allianz has been scheduled first for completion. I'll bet by the time Allianz is re-built, Homebush only gets a small amount of funding. Time will tell.

Will be annoyed if we are stuck with a 'premier' stadium that only holds around 50,000-60,000 people.

 

[flamebouyant]

Two things mate. One is that most European cities are walking cities with an underground metro network which we can't do in Sydney due to the ironstone basin it sits in. And second, most if not all European cities are populated with people living in the city whereas most people in Sydney live on the outskirts so the transport systems are geared towards getting people in and out of the city not around it.

Fair points, but sydney is not an old city, in fact canterbury was mostly farmland when my dad was a kid growing up there, so they have had more then enough time to think ahead and prepare for the future.
In any case, sydney traffic is not my problem, so im not exactly invested in its future. The reason behind creating this thread was more to illistrate the stupidity of knocking down a perfectly good stadium, allthough not great for football, when they had already drawn up plans to refurbish it which looked amazing.

 

[steeliz]

Then you aren't aware of the North West Rail link and the tram systems that are currently under construction. You are probably not aware of the disentanglement of the heavy rail systems that they are still trying to work through to get the rail lines to run more smoothly, nor the fact that west connex also carries a significant bus transit capability for the huge and expanding public transport demand from the fastest growing area in Australia......

Or the fact it is cheaper to drive and park than take public transport.

The cost of public transport in NSW is a joke when compared around the world. We treat it as a business to make money where most 1st world countries have realized it is an essential service that keeps the city moving.

As long as the cost stays where it is people will drive.

 

[flamebouyant]

Or the fact it is cheaper to drive and park than take public transport.

The cost of public transport in NSW is a joke when compared around the world. We treat it as a business to make money where most 1st world countries have realized it is an essential service that keeps the city moving.

As long as the cost stays where it is people will drive.

When was the last time you visited london mate? £6 to go about 6-10 stops.

 

[flamebouyant]

Happy to refurbish properly or knockdown and rebuild.

Think we need a great stadium with a. great atmosphere that holds 85,000 - 90,000. Don't mind if it's at Moore Park or Homebush.

Can't believe we need to knock down and rebuild both stadiums, particularly with a 75,000 capacity for ANZ and 48,000 capacity for Allianz proposed.

At the end of the day the SFS & SGC Trust seem to wield too much influence and have Stuart Ayres in their pocket. I am still skeptical about how much funding will be given to ANZ. Ayres tried to inflate the reported ANZ costs after initially losing out. After this was unsuccessful suddenly funding is greatly increased, we are rebuilding both stadiums and of course Allianz has been scheduled first for completion. I'll bet by the time Allianz is re-built, Homebush only gets a small amount of funding. Time will tell.

Will be annoyed if we are stuck with a 'premier' stadium that only holds around 50,000-60,000 people.

Jobs for mates. Its bullshit that allianz is rebuilt first given how many teams use ANZ and also how many other events are held there.
Fuck the roosters btw.

 

[steeliz]

When was the last time you visited london mate? £6 to go about 6-10 stops.

London was a while ago.

The reason it is so expensive in London is because they screwed up. Years ago some nong in the Ministry of Transport over there thought it would be smart to sell off the land where the underground stations are to developers to build apartments and shopping centres. The developers being a little smarter than the morons in the ministry decided that 'HEY, we now own the land where the stations are built' and decided to charged the London Metro rent for the use of their land. The cost of this went straight onto the metro tickets. This is a situation unique to London.

I was in New York this year - $11 for an unlimited 7 day ticket for the metro, Boston was the same. Athens - 9 euro gets a 5 day unlimited rides for bus, tram, trolley & metro use.

2 years ago in Vancouver. $2.50 for a 4hr ticket. Calgary FREE transport within the CBD area. Toronto - train rides a standard $2.10.

I have also read that Berlin and Paris have moved or will be implementing FREE travel in the CBD to reduce congestion and lower pollution.

These are just the few I can remember off the top of my head.

 

[Stinky Wizzleteats]

Twice the cost, in current dollars, than the SMHS.
33kms total. longest tunnels in the country.

Yep, I think it's costing more because of where it is being built, whereas the Snowy Hydro didn't have to be built in the middle of Sydney. Westconnex will have the longest "transport" tunnels.

16 dams, 7 power stations, 145kms of tunnels. Took 25 years to build by 100000 people, mainly European refugees or migrants, probably why it didn't cost that much to build.

 

[CroydonDog]

London was a while ago.

The reason it is so expensive in London is because they screwed up. Years ago some nong in the Ministry of Transport over there thought it would be smart to sell off the land where the underground stations are to developers to build apartments and shopping centres. The developers being a little smarter than the morons in the ministry decided that 'HEY, we now own the land where the stations are built' and decided to charged the London Metro rent for the use of their land. The cost of this went straight onto the metro tickets. This is a situation unique to London.

I was in New York this year - $11 for an unlimited 7 day ticket for the metro, Boston was the same. Athens - 9 euro gets a 5 day unlimited rides for bus, tram, trolley & metro use.

2 years ago in Vancouver. $2.50 for a 4hr ticket. Calgary FREE transport within the CBD area. Toronto - train rides a standard $2.10.

I have also read that Berlin and Paris have moved or will be implementing FREE travel in the CBD to reduce congestion and lower pollution.

These are just the few I can remember off the top of my head.

Melbourne has a free tram area in the city/docklands. The trams are really crowded, but its great for getting around.

 

[steeliz]

Melbourne has a free tram area in the city/docklands. The trams are really crowded, but its great for getting around.

We used to have a free bus service (555) around the CBD but with the announcement of the light rail that service was scrapped.

Not that the state government is bending over for the new private operator or anything.

 

[Oatley Dog]

London was a while ago.

The reason it is so expensive in London is because they screwed up. Years ago some nong in the Ministry of Transport over there thought it would be smart to sell off the land where the underground stations are to developers to build apartments and shopping centres. The developers being a little smarter than the morons in the ministry decided that 'HEY, we now own the land where the stations are built' and decided to charged the London Metro rent for the use of their land. The cost of this went straight onto the metro tickets. This is a situation unique to London.

I was in New York this year - $11 for an unlimited 7 day ticket for the metro, Boston was the same. Athens - 9 euro gets a 5 day unlimited rides for bus, tram, trolley & metro use.

2 years ago in Vancouver. $2.50 for a 4hr ticket. Calgary FREE transport within the CBD area. Toronto - train rides a standard $2.10.

I have also read that Berlin and Paris have moved or will be implementing FREE travel in the CBD to reduce congestion and lower pollution.

These are just the few I can remember off the top of my head.

Mate I was in NYC 7 weeks ago - no way you can get a 7 day ticket for $11 - it is $30USD and that is only for the metro. If you want to go to Metlife it is a NJ Transit ticket and that cost me $16USD return as I recollect. Given that both Berlin and Paris are PT cities already, with heavily reduced road transport there is no sense in them making something that is chockers already more full. I've been to Paris 5 times and Berlin once. As for Boston, it is a walking city. Didn't even use their metro when I was there. There is no rail system like ours in the world. It is heavy rail whereas all those places you mention are light rail. We don't have the population in the right places to take advantage of light rail systems.

 

[steeliz]

Mate I was in NYC 7 weeks ago - no way you can get a 7 day ticket for $11 - it is $30USD and that is only for the metro. If you want to go to Metlife it is a NJ Transit ticket and that cost me $16USD return as I recollect. Given that both Berlin and Paris are PT cities already, with heavily reduced road transport there is no sense in them making something that is chockers already more full. I've been to Paris 5 times and Berlin once. As for Boston, it is a walking city. Didn't even use their metro when I was there. There is no rail system like ours in the world. It is heavy rail whereas all those places you mention are light rail. We don't have the population in the right places to take advantage of light rail systems.

There are actually many not only rail systems but transport systems just like ours.

Seattle and Toronto to name just 2. Both cities reasonably spread out, population very similar to ours with modes of transport just like ours (Bus, train & Ferry). We overpay by so much it is not even funny.

The definition of light rail is a tram. Any other form of rail transport is, by definition, heavy rail. Driverless trains used in places like San Fransisco, Vancouver and Toronto are not light rail.

The term light rail used by the minister in NSW is used incorrectly. He is trying to sway public opinion by muddying the waters to privatize all forms of transport in NSW, but that is a different argument.

What he is defining as light rail is more trains, more often but with less carriages. this is not light rail. Prices will go through the roof.

A ticket from Parramatta to Central is just under $5. return $10. Use that 5 days for work and then on the weekend for recreation. Add a connecting bus and you can work out how much the cost is. Then compare that to driving. Do your own math because you won't believe me. The difference is significant. I travel from Merrylands to Port Botany and it costs almost half for me to drive in $ terms and saves me about 1/2 an hour.

2 adults and 1 child take the Rivercat into the City from Parra on a Saturday and return by train, you will spend over $30. That $30 is half my petrol bill for the week.

Public transport in Sydney costs much more than anywhere else you care to mention AND we don't pay rent like the London Metro. Guaranteed iPart will increase fare again in early January.

 

[Oatley Dog]

There are actually many not only rail systems but transport systems just like ours.

Seattle and Toronto to name just 2. Both cities reasonably spread out, population very similar to ours with modes of transport just like ours (Bus, train & Ferry). We overpay by so much it is not even funny.

The definition of light rail is a tram. Any other form of rail transport is, by definition, heavy rail. Driverless trains used in places like San Fransisco, Vancouver and Toronto are not light rail.

The term light rail used by the minister in NSW is used incorrectly. He is trying to sway public opinion by muddying the waters to privatize all forms of transport in NSW, but that is a different argument.

What he is defining as light rail is more trains, more often but with less carriages. this is not light rail. Prices will go through the roof.

A ticket from Parramatta to Central is just under $5. return $10. Use that 5 days for work and then on the weekend for recreation. Add a connecting bus and you can work out how much the cost is. Then compare that to driving. Do your own math because you won't believe me. The difference is significant. I travel from Merrylands to Port Botany and it costs almost half for me to drive in $ terms and saves me about 1/2 an hour.

2 adults and 1 child take the Rivercat into the City from Parra on a Saturday and return by train, you will spend over $30. That $30 is half my petrol bill for the week.

Public transport in Sydney costs much more than anywhere else you care to mention AND we don't pay rent like the London Metro. Guaranteed iPart will increase fare again in early January.

You have gone to a lot of trouble but most of your info is not correct. There is heavy rail, light rail (trams) and metro lines overseas We don't have those versions in NSW. Our heavy rail which is double decker trains is not common in most other cities due to its unusual size. Our light rail here is a token effort that caters to hundreds rather than thousands. Metros in all those cities move millions a day. We do the same with heavy rail. The heavy rail in other cities do regional lines not inner city lines.

The River cat has always been a private ferry - not that it matters now the others have been sold off. There are other public transport options but I assume you took the cat to give the kid a thrill. There is (or at least until recently was) a limit on the number of journeys you have to pay for on our rail system. Toronto is a subway (metro) system. The Skytrain in Vancouver covers 10% of the tracks and 30% of the stations of Sydney. And the BART is less than 25% of the track and 30% of the stations of Sydney. So the bottom line is that there is no rail system like sydney in the world.

 

[Bob dog]

Belmore to receive funding for upgrade as announced in the news, hope they jazz it up without losing the hill, or do youse want more seating?

 

[Stinky Wizzleteats]

Was in Singapore in September and caught the MTR daily. It's a metro type system (I think), seats down the side, people crammed in at peak times (made the mistake once of travelling in peak). Train every 7 minutes, no drivers.
We were staying in the outer suburbs of Singapore and it cost us $2.70 return, probably about 10 stops from the city.

Could not fault it.

 

[Oatley Dog]

Was in Singapore in September and caught the MTR daily. It's a metro type system (I think), seats down the side, people crammed in at peak times (made the mistake once of travelling in peak). Train every 7 minutes, no drivers.
We were staying in the outer suburbs of Singapore and it cost us $2.70 return, probably about 10 stops from the city.

Could not fault it.

Yes the metro's around the world are great. It's just a shame we don't have the infrastructure to support them.

 

[steeliz]

You have gone to a lot of trouble but most of your info is not correct. There is heavy rail, light rail (trams) and metro lines overseas We don't have those versions in NSW. Our heavy rail which is double decker trains is not common in most other cities due to its unusual size. Our light rail here is a token effort that caters to hundreds rather than thousands. Metros in all those cities move millions a day. We do the same with heavy rail. The heavy rail in other cities do regional lines not inner city lines.

The River cat has always been a private ferry - not that it matters now the others have been sold off. There are other public transport options but I assume you took the cat to give the kid a thrill. There is (or at least until recently was) a limit on the number of journeys you have to pay for on our rail system. Toronto is a subway (metro) system. The Skytrain in Vancouver covers 10% of the tracks and 30% of the stations of Sydney. And the BART is less than 25% of the track and 30% of the stations of Sydney. So the bottom line is that there is no rail system like sydney in the world.

Haven't gone to a lot of trouble at all. It is my job to know these things. I have worked in the transport industry in various roles not only in the Ministry of Transport but in various government and private companies since 2005. A lot of these figures are straight off the top of my head so they will not be exact but they are close enough.

Metro if you must know is a brand name not a transport type. Same way people call all cola Coke. Heavy rail does not refer to just double decker trains it also includes things like single level driverless 4 carriage trains in San Fransisco and Toronto. You are right on one thing our light rail is a joke.

The Rivercat has never been a private ferry. According to the Ministry of Transport it has been 'franchised'. By NSW government definition that means the government still owns all the ferries, wharfs, docks and pays a private consortium to run Sydney Ferries for them. By legal definition and as Transport Minister Andrew Constance has been quoted publicly many times 'still government owned'. The same as he is trying to do with State Transit and Sydney Rail. The government will own all the buses, depots and companies but will hire a private company and give a 99 yr lease to run it for them.

Torontos subway System as you put it is less than 30% underground and the Sky train in Vancouver (why you want to differentiate here is beyond me) is fully integrated into the rest of the rail system in Vancouver.

So the bottom line here is if you would put a little more effort into your argument you would see how wrong you really are.

 

[Oatley Dog]

Haven't gone to a lot of trouble at all. It is my job to know these things. I have worked in the transport industry in various roles not only in the Ministry of Transport but in various government and private companies since 2005. A lot of these figures are straight off the top of my head so they will not be exact but they are close enough.

Metro if you must know is a brand name not a transport type. Same way people call all cola Coke. Heavy rail does not refer to just double decker trains it also includes things like single level driverless 4 carriage trains in San Fransisco and Toronto. You are right on one thing our light rail is a joke.

The Rivercat has never been a private ferry. According to the Ministry of Transport it has been 'franchised'. By NSW government definition that means the government still owns all the ferries, wharfs, docks and pays a private consortium to run Sydney Ferries for them. By legal definition and as Transport Minister Andrew Constance has been quoted publicly many times 'still government owned'. The same as he is trying to do with State Transit and Sydney Rail. The government will own all the buses, depots and companies but will hire a private company and give a 99 yr lease to run it for them.

Torontos subway System as you put it is less than 30% underground and the Sky train in Vancouver (why you want to differentiate here is beyond me) is fully integrated into the rest of the rail system in Vancouver.

So the bottom line here is if you would put a little more effort into your argument you would see how wrong you really are.

Good to see you have a sense of humour. Important in a policy officer. I've had quite a few Dept of Transport people working for me over the years although I am now retired. I wasn't responding on a technical basis, instead on a plain english one. Bottom line remains that there is no rail system like ours in major cities around the world which was the point I was making all along. I can still remember though sitting around the table at GMT while one DG or other was 'schooling' us on the relative merits of the system and just how difficult it was to untangle a system that was more complex than any other in the world. Maybe now they have the spaghetti all sorted but somehow I seriously doubt it. Anyway, on to the next discussion.

 

[steeliz]

Good to see you have a sense of humour. Important in a policy officer. I've had quite a few Dept of Transport people working for me over the years although I am now retired. I wasn't responding on a technical basis, instead on a plain english one. Bottom line remains that there is no rail system like ours in major cities around the world which was the point I was making all along. I can still remember though sitting around the table at GMT while one DG or other was 'schooling' us on the relative merits of the system and just how difficult it was to untangle a system that was more complex than any other in the world. Maybe now they have the spaghetti all sorted but somehow I seriously doubt it. Anyway, on to the next discussion.

Dude serious, new invention called google.

Try it. You won't look like so much of a fool.