ANZ stadium rebuild

Is the proposed plan to knock ANZ down and rebuildbit a good idea?

  • Great idea. Well done NSW government.

    Votes: 13 44.8%
  • The original plan to refurbish the stadium was a better option.

    Votes: 8 27.6%
  • I dont know.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Fucking disgrace. The funding should be used elsewhere.

    Votes: 8 27.6%

  • Total voters
    29
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Bad Billy

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Yes, but will be it be good for the city/state? The ability from Penrith the the city shouldn't be a goal of government, in my view.
It is if you’re trying to de-centralize Sydney.
Can’t keep building 50story apartment blocks.
I agree, more should be spent on public transport, but the problem is some people just don’t like to use it.
Personally, I’ll drive into darling harbour and pay for parking at the convention center before I catch a train there.
 

Oatley Dog

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Yes, but will be it be good for the city/state? The ability from Penrith the the city shouldn't be a goal of government, in my view.

Just observing from afar, the NSW government seems to be prioritising roads over PT.
Then you aren't aware of the North West Rail link and the tram systems that are currently under construction. You are probably not aware of the disentanglement of the heavy rail systems that they are still trying to work through to get the rail lines to run more smoothly, nor the fact that west connex also carries a significant bus transit capability for the huge and expanding public transport demand from the fastest growing area in Australia......
 

Hacky McAxe

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It is if you’re trying to de-centralize Sydney.
Can’t keep building 50story apartment blocks.
I agree, more should be spent on public transport, but the problem is some people just don’t like to use it.
Personally, I’ll drive into darling harbour and pay for parking at the convention center before I catch a train there.
Had that on Saturday. Heading in to Newtown. Had the option of a 40 minute drive or 1.5 hour public transport across two buses and two trains. Sure it could be fixed by providing more public transport but if the demand for the route isn't there then it's just a waste of money and petrol. Plus I have to drive for work like many others in Sydney.

There is a place for public transport though and it does need more investment but it won't help everyone.
 

CroydonDog

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Then you aren't aware of the North West Rail link and the tram systems that are currently under construction. You are probably not aware of the disentanglement of the heavy rail systems that they are still trying to work through to get the rail lines to run more smoothly, nor the fact that west connex also carries a significant bus transit capability for the huge and expanding public transport demand from the fastest growing area in Australia......
I'm aware of the North West Rail link - as it was first discussed more more than 10 years ago when i was living in Sydney (a place where I lived half my life), and who really knows when it will be completed - i';m actually surprised it finally strarted The tram is just plain puzzling as it really isn't adding anything, other than 3 years and counting of chaos - I was shocked a couple of weeks ago in the city at just how little progress this project has made, in most of the world it would have been well and truly finished and operational by now.

With regards to the new train timetable, all there seems to be is complaints (I appreciate though, that people are natural complainers, and there are possible people who are happy with that changes).
 

CroydonDog

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Had that on Saturday. Heading in to Newtown. Had the option of a 40 minute drive or 1.5 hour public transport across two buses and two trains. Sure it could be fixed by providing more public transport but if the demand for the route isn't there then it's just a waste of money and petrol. Plus I have to drive for work like many others in Sydney.

There is a place for public transport though and it does need more investment but it won't help everyone.
Trust me, I prefer my car, and in Brisbane I guess i have that luxury, although there is also an excellent bus service near my house too).

But also, building a flash freeway between the suburbs and the city surely id the opposite of decentralisation?

Sydney just seems to be unsustainable... and its a shame as its a place I like visiting and of course I spent a long time there.

Sorry, getting of topic....

With the stadiums, I don;t know about the business case, has one actually been released? People just saying "its better spent on X Y and Z may actually be completely inaccurate, as may people who see it as vital to the city...
 

Oatley Dog

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I'm aware of the North West Rail link - as it was first discussed more more than 10 years ago when i was living in Sydney (a place where I lived half my life), and who really knows when it will be completed - i';m actually surprised it finally strarted The tram is just plain puzzling as it really isn't adding anything, other than 3 years and counting of chaos - I was shocked a couple of weeks ago in the city at just how little progress this project has made, in most of the world it would have been well and truly finished and operational by now.

With regards to the new train timetable, all there seems to be is complaints (I appreciate though, that people are natural complainers, and there are possible people who are happy with that changes).
Well you only have to read a few posts on here to know that everyone always complains about anything and everything. It's the price of having the internet I guess. NWRaillink is powering ahead. I drove along Windsor Road last week and the lines infrastructure is already there. I don't care as I don't live over there but I seem to recollect it being about a 3 year project and they are past halfway. The tram doesn't just go up George street - it goes out to Allianz and beyond and connects to the heavy rail and light rail systems. What people don't understand is that Sydney was built long before PT was invented and to do what they have done in other states would effectively require the entire city to be levelled. That's why we are a car dependent City. You can't build tunnels everywhere due to the ironstone basin that Sydney sits in. It's just too bloody hard to dig economically.
 

CroydonDog

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Well you only have to read a few posts on here to know that everyone always complains about anything and everything. It's the price of having the internet I guess. NWRaillink is powering ahead. I drove along Windsor Road last week and the lines infrastructure is already there. I don't care as I don't live over there but I seem to recollect it being about a 3 year project and they are past halfway. The tram doesn't just go up George street - it goes out to Allianz and beyond and connects to the heavy rail and light rail systems. What people don't understand is that Sydney was built long before PT was invented and to do what they have done in other states would effectively require the entire city to be levelled. That's why we are a car dependent City. You can't build tunnels everywhere due to the ironstone basin that Sydney sits in. It's just too bloody hard to dig economically.
The age of a city, is quite frankly not that relevant, to its ability to deliver PT and other infrastructure projects. Most cities in the world were founded before the train or the motor vehicle.

One thing you are definitely correct on, is the Sydney can be an expensive city to build stuff on, but in my view its more to do with topography (rivers, hills etc, as well as having to buy back properties) than what's under the ground. AFAIK, underground, most of Sydney is sandstone?

The tram does indeed go down past Allianz Stadium to Randwick Racecourse, UNSW and Prince of Wales Hospital etc - routes currently serviced by a good bus system. Whilst it will have the ability to move masses after a large event, overall it just seems like duplication, and driven by some weird obsession with trams/light rail.
 

Oatley Dog

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The age of a city, is quite frankly not that relevant, to its ability to deliver PT and other infrastructure projects. Most cities in the world were founded before the train or the motor vehicle.

One thing you are definitely correct on, is the Sydney can be an expensive city to build stuff on, but in my view its more to do with topography (rivers, hills etc, as well as having to buy back properties) than what's under the ground. AFAIK, underground, most of Sydney is sandstone?

The tram does indeed go down past Allianz Stadium to Randwick Racecourse, UNSW and Prince of Wales Hospital etc - routes currently serviced by a good bus system. Whilst it will have the ability to move masses after a large event, overall it just seems like duplication, and driven by some weird obsession with trams/light rail.
Age is highly relevant because the road system for the city was designed for horse and carts which means that whole city blocks of the city have to be destroyed to get the width necessary to expand the transport systems. It's OK for Brisbane, Perth and Adelaide because they are relatively new cities in the main and were designed with wide avenues and boulevards. Melbourne was laid out by Burley Griffin again with open spaces. Sydney was a convict settlement designed that way and now half the buildings are heritage listed. You are right about the topography which combined with the basin makes trains/trams etc extraordinarily expensive to implement. The other cities are relatively flat. In fact most cities around the world are like that. Sydney isn't one of them.
 

CroydonDog

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Age is highly relevant because the road system for the city was designed for horse and carts which means that whole city blocks of the city have to be destroyed to get the width necessary to expand the transport systems. It's OK for Brisbane, Perth and Adelaide because they are relatively new cities in the main and were designed with wide avenues and boulevards. Melbourne was laid out by Burley Griffin again with open spaces. Sydney was a convict settlement designed that way and now half the buildings are heritage listed. You are right about the topography which combined with the basin makes trains/trams etc extraordinarily expensive to implement. The other cities are relatively flat. In fact most cities around the world are like that. Sydney isn't one of them.
Burley Griffin didn't design Melbourne (he wasn't born until much later). He is famous for his circular designs (Canberra, Leeton, Griffith etc)

Melbourne has wide boulevards (great for sharing with trams), with little back roads for services etc. It ended up this way almost by accident, as it was a compromise I think between the NSW Governor (who wanted narrow streets) and his predecessor (who must have seen a good reason for the wide streets as far back as the 1830s - 50years before the first tram). The design is by Robert Hoddle, who has a street named after him was was unfortunately involved in one of Melbourne's worst mass shootings....

I'm not even going to charge everyone for this exciting trivia :grinning:
 

LordSidious66

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And when Sydney misses out on the big events to Melbourne etc, people will be whining about how crap Sydney, "the gummit is shit" etc.

If built properly (ie with a roof, steep seating, and huge screens), this new venue will attract the huge events - from UFC to massive arena sports like monster trucks, the biggest concerts, NFL games, Soccer giants' overseas tours etc, even conferences (think world youth day, Rotary international Convention etc - these events pull in billions). putting it on a level venues in the US, Asia and Europe. Nobody will ever dare of taking the NRL GF away and you can shut up fucking Queenslanders when they boast abut how great their stadium is (it really isn't, but its the best the country has).

Problem in Oz often is the lack of just getting shit done. This is why we are still talking about a new Airport in Sydney after 25 years. In the meantime, Hong Kong built a new one with am awesome rail link, Thailand did so too (with a bit less success), and Singapore just opened the new terminal and is already building a 5th.
It could even host wrestlemania if the new anz stadium is big enough.
 

Mr Invisible

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*deep breath*

ANZ is NOT a concert venue.... it wasn't built for that purpose and will never be decent for concerts.. that's just fact.

Sound setup is designed for PA not concerts.

Thus also why Qudos was built next door.
 

CroydonDog

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*deep breath*

ANZ is NOT a concert venue.... it wasn't built for that purpose and will never be decent for concerts.. that's just fact.

Sound setup is designed for PA not concerts.

Thus also why Qudos was built next door.
Quodos holds abput 20k tops.

You think the Taylor Swifts, Foo Fighters etc are going to bother playing a venue that small in a city the size of Sydney?

If built properly stadiums can be great concert venues.
 

Wahesh

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Im behind anything that improves the atmosphere in stadiums, Its the one thing that I dislike about Australian sports, THERES NO FUCKING ATMOSPHERE.
For some reason, I'm imaging David Klemmer screaming that last sentence you wrote with the same look on his face as in your avatar!
 

Wahesh

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Quodos holds abput 20k tops.

You think the Taylor Swifts, Foo Fighters etc are going to bother playing a venue that small in a city the size of Sydney?

If built properly stadiums can be great concert venues.
You are 100% correct... IF built properly. ANZ does not fall into that category!
 

Stinky Wizzleteats

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People will always complain.
It’s only just started (30%complete)
Once finished, you’ll be able to drive from Campbelltown to the city or Penrith to the city or bypass the city completely, under freeway conditions. The harbour tunnel will also be duplicated and be accessed via westconnex.
It’s the biggest infrastructure project ever undertaken in NSW.
Bigger than the Snowy Hydro Scheme?

Nah.
 

flamebouyant

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The problem with the stadium is that it was built for Olympics. It was a waste of money to begin with when they refurbished it after the games. In the current state, a knockdown/re-build job is the best action. However what would've been the best action was 25 years ago when work begun on the entire Sydney Olympic Park complex, when they should have built a brand new rectangular arena 100,000 capacity ONLY for Rugby League, Soccer and Union. Now it's costing the Government 3-4 times more.
They should have built a stadium that could easily have been converted afterwards. Designed plans that would easily facilitate a remodel. Im no architect, but surely the best architectsbin australia could have devised plans that could easily convert into something else.
 

flamebouyant

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And when Sydney misses out on the big events to Melbourne etc, people will be whining about how crap Sydney, "the gummit is shit" etc.

If built properly (ie with a roof, steep seating, and huge screens), this new venue will attract the huge events - from UFC to massive arena sports like monster trucks, the biggest concerts, NFL games, Soccer giants' overseas tours etc, even conferences (think world youth day, Rotary international Convention etc - these events pull in billions). putting it on a level venues in the US, Asia and Europe. Nobody will ever dare of taking the NRL GF away and you can shut up fucking Queenslanders when they boast abut how great their stadium is (it really isn't, but its the best the country has).

Problem in Oz often is the lack of just getting shit done. This is why we are still talking about a new Airport in Sydney after 25 years. In the meantime, Hong Kong built a new one with am awesome rail link, Thailand did so too (with a bit less success), and Singapore just opened the new terminal and is already building a 5th.
Thisbis all true, but the increase in budget of almost $1B and the change of mind to knock the stadiums down and start from scratch is puzzling and unnecessary. Its clearly a typical jobs for mates situation.
 

flamebouyant

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Age is highly relevant because the road system for the city was designed for horse and carts which means that whole city blocks of the city have to be destroyed to get the width necessary to expand the transport systems. It's OK for Brisbane, Perth and Adelaide because they are relatively new cities in the main and were designed with wide avenues and boulevards. Melbourne was laid out by Burley Griffin again with open spaces. Sydney was a convict settlement designed that way and now half the buildings are heritage listed. You are right about the topography which combined with the basin makes trains/trams etc extraordinarily expensive to implement. The other cities are relatively flat. In fact most cities around the world are like that. Sydney isn't one of them.
So how did they manage in european cities then? Sydney is incredibly young compared to almost every big city in the world, so its not its age thats the problem, its the topography.
 

Oatley Dog

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So how did they manage in european cities then? Sydney is incredibly young compared to almost every big city in the world, so its not its age thats the problem, its the topography.
Two things mate. One is that most European cities are walking cities with an underground metro network which we can't do in Sydney due to the ironstone basin it sits in. And second, most if not all European cities are populated with people living in the city whereas most people in Sydney live on the outskirts so the transport systems are geared towards getting people in and out of the city not around it.
 
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