U.S. Politics - Thread

[Bazildog]

I find it interesting that Trump talked about voter fraud long before the election and yet he is the one who ordered the removal of thousands of post mail boxes..

He knew or was advised that the mail vote would be huge for the election because of Covid and also because of Democrat voters concerns of aggressive Repblucan voters at polling booths.

By restricting places to post thier votes he hoped to slow the delivery enough to make them invalid..

I believed the US needed a strong (Sherrif type) leader after Obama, and Hilary was a poor option. So Trump became President, and then 4 years of almost unbelievable un Presidential behaviour unfolded.

I don't care if you are left or right leaning in your views (I lean right) this bloke is a disgrace, is dangerous and is making a mockery of the Presidency.

Make no mistake, the stalling and fraud conspiracy about the election is deliberate. Every lie he has told during the last 4 years is part of the sheep mentality brain washing tactic he has used most of his life in business. Tell a story enough times to enough people and it starts to become the truth, even to him...

80 million plus Americans voted his sorry ass out. Unfortunately and in my opinion "unbelievably" almost 74 million people voted to keep him.

 

[Psycho Doggie]

I find it interesting that Trump talked about voter fraud long before the election and yet he is the one who ordered the removal of thousands of post mail boxes..

He knew or was advised that the mail vote would be huge for the election because of Covid and also because of Democrat voters concerns of aggressive Repblucan voters at polling booths.

By restricting places to post thier votes he hoped to slow the delivery enough to make them invalid..

I believed the US needed a strong (Sherrif type) leader after Obama, and Hilary was a poor option. So Trump became President, and then 4 years of almost unbelievable un Presidential behaviour unfolded.

I don't care if you are left or right leaning in your views (I lean right) this bloke is a disgrace, is dangerous and is making a mockery of the Presidency.

Make no mistake, the stalling and fraud conspiracy about the election is deliberate. Every lie he has told during the last 4 years is part of the sheep mentality brain washing tactic he has used most of his life in business. Tell a story enough times to enough people and it starts to become the truth, even to him...

80 million plus Americans voted his sorry ass out. Unfortunately and in my opinion "unbelievably" almost 74 million people voted to keep him.

The US is in a lot of trouble. It is hard to know how they turn it around from here. Both parties need leaders to come to the front of the pile who can demonstrate strong value based direction but who also have a good sense of pragmatism and their own fallibility. I'll be amazed if Biden is able to do much at all, and Harris, while ticking some progressive boxes, is problematic because 1. she is a relatively unknown quantity in terms of international politics, and 2. the reality is a large chunk of the American population simply won't listen to her because she is a black female. Whatever anyone may feel about that 2nd point, whether it is unfair or unjust or whatever, it is the reality. Good politics has been as much about pragmatism as anything else. When Eike was President, he used to meet with the Democratic leader of the house every day at 6pm for a whiskey. They understood that the best results came from compromise. These days it is all about beating the other side through whatever means, and this approach is creating more and more devastation.

 

[Grunthos]

This is going to be extremely interesting. It is fairly safe to say that to at least some extent Trump and Co have relied on ignorance in order to hoodwink their way into power and influence. A large part of this process has involved mass fabrications. The lies have been believed. Will it subsequently become apparent that though you can fool a large amount of people by telling lies that agree with their biases, some sort of native instinctive honesty still prevails in that the people will unconsciously apply the beliefs and information you have fed them across the spectrum, not just when it is convenient.

We'll wait and see, but if the Ds pick up one or both of the Georgia senate seats, or even if it is a really tight race, it would perhaps indicate that there might be some truth to this. And if so, it would mean that Trump and Co's tactics are only ever workable in the short term, they will somehow backfire over time.

100% with you. You just can't keep saying "Its all a fraud" and then say "Get out and vote" and not have a few people beginning to question your motives.
But then again, it is America...

 

[Dawgfather]

this bloke is a disgrace, is dangerous

So dangerous that for the first time in many decades, a U.S. president hasn't taken America and the western world into another pointless war. So dangerous!

 

[Grunthos]

You know, its hard not to feel a little smug, even our worst government is far better and has more integrity than almost any US administration.

 

[south of heaven]

So dangerous that for the first time in many decades, a U.S. president hasn't taken America and the western world into another pointless war. So dangerous!

Nah just disregarded medical advice and let many of his people die unnecessary

 

[Dawgfather]

Nah just disregarded medical advice and let many of his people die unnecessary

Saying that Trump ‘let’ all these people die, assumes that he had something easily within reach that he could have done to suddenly save anyone.

But this seems invalid given countless countries around the world are facing the same issues despite having done the things like lockdowns that some ppl thought would help, but have not.

It also assumes that American presidents have the legal authority to implement national health policy (which they don’t). The president (for example) can not legally enforce a mask mandate. Most health responsibility lies with individual states who rightfully should be held to account. On this measure 4/5 worst performing American states by death per capita are democrat. New York and New Jersey being the worst.

Any material amount of media coverage of the failings of New Jersey and New York? Of course not - run by democrats.

Trump like every other politician should of course be critiqued and held to account but the problem is that right now and for the last four years Trump is criticised to the degree that there is no basis for the criticism. It’s simply the case that whatever trump does will be criticised regardless of whether it’s a positive or negative act.

 

[south of heaven]

Saying that Trump ‘let’ all these people die, assumes that he had something easily within reach that he could have done to suddenly save anyone.

Its pretty easy he should of led being a leader and all and followed his medical advisors or said hey we are in unsure times lets just do our best to social distance and wear a mask its pretty easy if he wants history to remember him as a saviour as he wants he needs to take the good with the bad .yes he could of saved thousands of lives with a few simple words

 

[Dawgfather]

Its pretty easy he should of led being a leader and all and followed his medical advisors or said hey we are in unsure times lets just do our best to social distance and wear a mask its pretty easy if he wants history to remember him as a saviour as he wants he needs to take the good with the bad .yes he could of saved thousands of lives with a few simple words

You’d need to distinguish which things he followed medical advice on versus which he didn’t because it’s not black and white.

Also, if you think thousands of American lives would suddenly be saved because of a few words from the president, it’s just my opinion but I think you’re misreading the fundamentals of America. Many Americans hold forthright views as individuals and don’t particularly care to be told what to do, or when and how they can do it.

Those who wanted to self isolate or wear masks or any other types of thing generally did it, and would have done it regardless of what Trump (or Biden for that matter) said/says.

Those who weren’t going to listen were not going to listen regardless of what Trump or Biden said / says.

 

[Bazildog]

So dangerous that for the first time in many decades, a U.S. president hasn't taken America and the western world into another pointless war. So dangerous!

Not yet.. Instead its been free reign for 4 years while despots like Putin and Xi continue to build and design arms and build fake islands while claiming international seas as their own. The leader of the free world, has been missing in action.

Saying that Trump ‘let’ all these people die, assumes that he had something easily within reach that he could have done to suddenly save anyone.

But this seems invalid given countless countries around the world are facing the same issues despite having done the things like lockdowns that some ppl thought would help, but have not.

Nah, this one is on him just like Victoria is on Anderson. America makes up 5% of the worlds population but currently accounts for 20% of all Covid cases. (almost 14,000,000 people just in the states and growing @ almost 160,000 cases per day). He managed to convince 74,000,000 Americans to give him another term, dont kid yourself that he couldn't have made them all wear masks, social distance, wash their hands and work from home.

“disappear” like a “miracle” "its just a little flu" "US, the most prepared country in the world for Covid" or my personal favourite, "Covid, Covid, Covid. thats all you here but I bet you wont hear about it much on November 4"..

Its pretty easy he should of led being a leader and all and followed his medical advisors or said hey we are in unsure times lets just do our best to social distance and wear a mask its pretty easy if he wants history to remember him as a saviour as he wants he needs to take the good with the bad .yes he could of saved thousands of lives with a few simple words

The last line is exactly what I am referring to, "a few simple words" from the Leader of the country POTUS, could of saved tens of thousands of American lives. He is totally to blame for America's reaction to the pandemic both from politicians and the general public, and even now when the country is staring at a massive surge before Christmas his only interest is whether or not he will get credit for a bloody vaccine.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

So dangerous that for the first time in many decades, a U.S. president hasn't taken America and the western world into another pointless war. So dangerous!

Yet he carried out more drone strikes than any president before him. Some President of peace.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

Saying that Trump ‘let’ all these people die, assumes that he had something easily within reach that he could have done to suddenly save anyone.

But this seems invalid given countless countries around the world are facing the same issues despite having done the things like lockdowns that some ppl thought would help, but have not.

It also assumes that American presidents have the legal authority to implement national health policy (which they don’t). The president (for example) can not legally enforce a mask mandate. Most health responsibility lies with individual states who rightfully should be held to account. On this measure 4/5 worst performing American states by death per capita are democrat. New York and New Jersey being the worst.

Any material amount of media coverage of the failings of New Jersey and New York? Of course not - run by democrats.

Trump like every other politician should of course be critiqued and held to account but the problem is that right now and for the last four years Trump is criticised to the degree that there is no basis for the criticism. It’s simply the case that whatever trump does will be criticised regardless of whether it’s a positive or negative act.

Science | AAAS

science.sciencemag.org

 

[Dawgfather]

Not yet.. Instead its been free reign for 4 years while despots like Putin and Xi continue to build and design arms and build fake islands while claiming international seas as their own. The leader of the free world, has been missing in action.

Russia is no great threat. Either economically, or militarily. Trump almost single handedly ruined Russia by making the American economy self sufficient from an energy perspective with their use of oil and gas. China on the other hand I agree is an enormous threat both financially and militarily.

Russia is enormously reliant on oil and gas and without money from these two, they are consigned to the dust bin. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Russia#:~:text=Russia relies on energy revenues,over 70% of total exports

And on the topic of China I agree with you, China is the biggest threat to global prosperity the world faces. Trump has been one of the only politicians to attempt to create public narratives around the dangers posed by China, whether it be in relation to COVID or things like global trade and economic superiority.

You think you're going to get Joe Biden advocating for the strong arming of China? Of course not - you know why? Biden is a career politician. The people who gave him the power as Democrat nominee in 2020 are people like Big tech (facebook, twitter and google), teachers unions, colleges and other groups who all rely on money from China to keep their businesses/industries moving forward.

You think Twitter, facebook and google are going to help an american president to combat China? Hell no - all the big tech companies want access to the 1billion+ chinese consumers for their profits. The benefit of having had Trump in the white house was that he was an outsider who could call out stupid stuff without worrying about what his donors or interest groups thought (because he was elected purely because American voters wanted him, and not because some big corporates and interest groups wanted him there).

Again, Joe Biden on the other hand - guess why he's there? Granted (in part) because some people wanted a particular health response on COVID, some people couldn't stand the combative nature of Trump, but in a big part because Big tech, Washington DC govt and corporate types decided they didn't want Trump anymore and wanted a safe bet like Biden, who wasn't going to call them out for their hypocrisy and selling out of the American people to foreign countries like China.

“disappear” like a “miracle” "its just a little flu" "US, the most prepared country in the world for Covid" or my personal favourite, "Covid, Covid, Covid.

Time will tell however his commentary around COVID disappearing could end up partly true if Vaccines are delivered quickly and the 'at-risk' segment of the American population is vaccinated by early 2021.

 

[Psycho Doggie]

Note the date stamps...

 

[wendog33]

100% with you. You just can't keep saying "Its all a fraud" and then say "Get out and vote" and not have a few people beginning to question your motives.
But then again, it is America...

Be interesting to see if sufficient numbers of D's get out and vote in the Georgia Senate run off...have they had enough and weary of all the bs....or are they galvanised enough to vote and give Biden the authority he needs to stop McConnell overruling all his decisions....or will Trump get a big sympathy vote.

The results will tell a lot of where USA (via Georgia) are atm.

Sorry state of affairs with Trump undermining their system of government and their institutions accusing the FBI and COJ of being corrupt. Society's collapse on less denigration by a President or head of state.

It's totally unbelievable what's presently happening.

If your child was at little league, or soccer or a spelling comp and refused to accept the umpire's decision or your kid threw a tantrum cos lil Joey had beat her at a math test...most parents would be aghast, embarrassed and ready to teach their child right from wrong and the way to best behave.

But not with Trump. Sold themselves to a cult. Unbelievable.

 

[Lov_Dog]

I'm not sure I understood what you're saying perfectly.

If you're suggesting I'm caught up in conspiracy - perhaps to an extent. My own personal feelings are that the election was not a fair one, but I don't have evidence for it. Of course it's possible Biden won in a fair way, all I'm saying is that I have doubts.

On the topic of 9/11, I spent months or possibly years interested in those conspiracy theories, and on this particular issue, I concluded that each conspiracy theory was not solid. On face value many of them seemed quite believable, but when you dig below they are quite baseless.

I don't believe every conspiracy theory that comes along, I sit and look and make my own mind up. 9/11 I don't, russian election conspiracy I don't, U.S. 2020 election - in part. I believe that the election was rigged to the extent that mainstream media supported Biden/Harris as hard as possible. They refused to run stories that played well for Trump. They blocked stories damaging to Biden/Harris. They essentially failed to ask any real questions of Biden/Harris and instead let them coast into the election under the guise of COVID-19, instead of doing what happens to every presidential nominee - they face grillings by the press so the public can work out what their policy position are.

On top of this I think it's quite a good possibility that the polling companies colluded to make the polls look awful for Trump. It's generally accepted that poor polling results in a candidates potential voters becoming dis-interested and not going to vote on election day.

On the Viability of Conspiratorial Beliefs
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0147905

This might help with understanding of conspiracy theories - I share this humbly with best intentions to educate and bring awareness.

 

[Lov_Dog]

On the Viability of Conspiratorial Beliefs
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0147905

This might help with understanding of conspiracy theories - I share this humbly with best intentions to educate and bring awareness.

An automated pipeline for the discovery of conspiracy and conspiracy theory narrative frameworks: Bridgegate, Pizzagate and storytelling on the web

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0233879

There is a significant volume of peer-reviewed, mathematical approaches to evaluating the field of conspiracy theory.
While it may not be as entertaining as YouTube .. it hopefully provides the balance one strives for to counter certain arguments/claims and levels the playing field to allow for an informed decision matrix.

 

[Bazildog]

Originally @Dawgfather I was going to respond to your entire post but then read the above gem at the end of it..Perhaps you would be vote number 74,000,001 for the Pussy grabber if you had a chance. Please enlighten me on how you can go from 15,000,000 Americans infected by the disease with more than 250,000 dead to "being partly true" ???

Partly true about a little flu?? Partly true about being the best prepared country in the world?? Or Partly true that he lost the election.?

Oh, and just to ad to your previous comments before about not dragging the US into another un-necessary war, did you realize that more Americans have died this year than World War 1, Korea, Vietnam, The Gulf War, Afghanistan and the Iraq war combined from the little flu.

 

[Dawgfather]

View attachment 18900

Originally @Dawgfather I was going to respond to your entire post but then read the above gem at the end of it..Perhaps you would be vote number 74,000,001 for the Pussy grabber if you had a chance. Please enlighten me on how you can go from 15,000,000 Americans infected by the disease with more than 250,000 dead to "being partly true" ???

Partly true about a little flu?? Partly true about being the best prepared country in the world?? Or Partly true that he lost the election.?

I said it could end up partly true (that COVID could vanish - so to speak), (if) the high risk citizens in America get vaccinated by early next year, thus leaving COVID as a far less serious illness.

 

[Mr 95%]

On the Viability of Conspiratorial Beliefs
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0147905

This might help with understanding of conspiracy theories - I share this humbly with best intentions to educate and bring awareness.
[/QUOTE]


LD that blew a bit of my brain out.. What I come away with though, which simply confirmed my thoughts, is the sheer size of the number people needed for some conspiracy theories to be successful, and for it to be kept ‘secret’..the difficulty in doing this negates the idea that a conspiracy could succeed without being ‘outed’.. Additionally, I have always believed that those who believe in conspiracy theories, like say ‘911’, is more about the feeling of vulnerability, as they can’t believe that something so ‘simple’..for want of a better word..as a plane being hijacked and smashing into a building and thus unleashing such devastation could happen where they live. Therefore, the thought, almost a need, that there has to be some elaborate plan or agenda to allow such an incident occurring, in their minds provides a comfort, it means they are not so vulnerable.

ps..However, I still believe they have a cure for spinal cord injury but won’t release it because the disabled industry is worth a fortune!!



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