News Staggs to test market

Bulldogs09

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id be very surprised Brisbane would let him go seeing that they are saying he is a priority. Kevvy wont let him go IMO.
We have made a good offer to another centre of same quality, depends on what happens there.
I hear you, same can be said about Fifita. Granted titans paid huge. Though the injury time off and broncos shit changed his views

Staggs is off injured half year and might see it’s a chance to head back to family down nsw and link with some blues like jac cotric etc and get paid bloody well too!

Broncos aren’t what they where and once again he is a nsw boy.

Agree if said centre was secured then no chance. Can’t afford both.

Though I’d say he’s staying where he is.

I hope we land staggs and b Smith from it!
 

bradyk

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Under normal circumstances I agree the spine should be the biggest expense but in our case we have both young halves and our fullback locked in for fairly low wages so the only big expense in our spine would be Brandon Smith if we can get him and even he wouldn't be on more than 700-800k you would think so that leaves us money to spend in other areas. Who are the 2 weakest links / players in our team that need replacing first for 2022 ? I would say JMK and Hopa then if we have money left over which is very likely chase a decent 5th prop or edge backrower. I wouldn't be surprised if Barrett is chasing Yeo from the Panthers along with B.Smith and either Crichton or Staggs or both (whoever signs first)
The weakest link is hooker (by a big margin) and then prop. I wouldn't even say Hopoate/centre is an issue unless you're talking about depth. Staggs would be a luxury signing and I don't think it's wise to do so before signing a hooker (Brandon Smith) and prop (Emre Guler, if we miss out on him there is pretty much nothing left, Leniu was a big miss). We also need a position for Averillo eventually, Schoupp and Alamoti coming through.
 

Teddybear

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Think we will nail staggs.

Just out of interest anyone know the try assists when comparing jmk, Brandon Smith, mcinness, Harry Grant etc

What about run metres
 

Bulldogs09

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Unfair to gage. B Smith not played hooker properly
Except for nz really.

Shared with c Smith for storm now and then but mainly forward.
 

Teddybear

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Just a guide mate, gives us an idea of what we are lacking stats wise at least.
I mean how does jmk compare with Damien cook?
Unfair to gage. B Smith not played hooker properly
Except for nz really.

Shared with c Smith for storm now and then but mainly forward.
 

bradyk

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Think we will nail staggs.

Just out of interest anyone know the try assists when comparing jmk, Brandon Smith, mcinness, Harry Grant etc

What about run metres
2020 NRL season (named at hooker)

Grant
15 games
~74 minutes
3 tries (0.2)
0 try saves
5 try assists (0.3)
3 line breaks (0.2)
6 line break assists (0.4)
~50 tackles (~0.7)
24 tackle breaks (1.6)
45 miss tackles (3)
11 offloads (0.7)
9 errors (0.6)
0 40/20
~82 metres gained (~1.1)
~19 kick metres
4 kick defusals
9 penalties concdeded (0.6)
1 forced drop out

B. Smith
5 games
~69 minutes
0 tries
1 try save (0.2)
1 try assist (0.2)
1 line break (0.2)
1 line break assist (0.2)
~37 tackles (~0.5)
9 tackle breaks (1.8)
8 miss tackles (1.6)
3 offloads (0.6)
3 errors (0.6)
1 40/20 (0.2)
~121 metres gained (~1.8)
~21 kick metres
0 kick defusals
3 penalties conceded (0.6)
0 forced drop outs

McInnes
10 games
~80 minutes
1 try (0.1)
1 try save (0.1)
2 try assists (0.2)
2 line breaks (0.2)
1 line break assist (0.1)
~57 tackles (~0.7)
27 tackle breaks (2.7)
11 miss tackles (1.1)
10 offloads (1)
5 errors (0.5)
0 40/20
~101 metres gained (~1.3)
~0.1 kick metres
0 kick defusals
7 penalties conceded (0.7)
0 forced drop outs

JMK
17 games
~71 minutes
1 try (0.1)
1 try save (0.1)
3 try assists (0.1)
3 line breaks (0.2)
2 line break assists (0.1)
~40 tackles (~0.6)
11 tackle breaks (0.6)
51 miss tackles (3)
4 offloads (0.2)
6 errors (0.4)
0 40/20
~56 metres gained (~0.8)
~16 kick metres
3 kick defusals (0.2)
5 penalties conceded (0.3)
1 forced drop out (0.1)
 

bradyk

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Just a guide mate, gives us an idea of what we are lacking stats wise at least.
I mean how does jmk compare with Damien cook?
Cook
26 games
~80 minutes
6 tries (0.2)
2 try saves (0.1)
8 try assists (0.3)
7 line breaks (0.3)
7 line break assists (0.3)
~47 tackles (~1.8)
58 tackle breaks (2.2)
44 miss tackles (2.2)
13 offloads (0.5)
11 errors (0.4)
0 40/20
~91 metres gained (~1.1)
~9 kick metres
1 kick defusal (0)
6 penalties conceded (0.2)
10 forced drop outs (0.4)

JMK
17 games
~71 minutes
1 try (0.1)
1 try save (0.1)
3 try assists (0.1)
3 line breaks (0.2)
2 line break assists (0.1)
~40 tackles (~0.6)
11 tackle breaks (0.6)
51 miss tackles (3)
4 offloads (0.2)
6 errors (0.4)
0 40/20
~56 metres gained (~0.8)
~16 kick metres
3 kick defusals (0.2)
5 penalties conceded (0.3)
1 forced drop out (0.1)
 

Bulldogsteve

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I hear you, same can be said about Fifita. Granted titans paid huge. Though the injury time off and broncos shit changed his views

Staggs is off injured half year and might see it’s a chance to head back to family down nsw and link with some blues like jac cotric etc and get paid bloody well too!

Broncos aren’t what they where and once again he is a nsw boy.

Agree if said centre was secured then no chance. Can’t afford both.

Though I’d say he’s staying where he is.

I hope we land staggs and b Smith from it!
yeh agree bruz, lets hope we land one of the 3
 

dogzofwar

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Come to Sydney come to the dogs plenty of freaky bitches down there that will let him suck there toes
You don’t need to be a famous footy player for that just hand them a few bags of coke they will let you do whatever you want these days lol sad world we live in
 

bradtalo

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The weakest link is hooker (by a big margin) and then prop. I wouldn't even say Hopoate/centre is an issue unless you're talking about depth. Staggs would be a luxury signing and I don't think it's wise to do so before signing a hooker (Brandon Smith) and prop (Emre Guler, if we miss out on him there is pretty much nothing left, Leniu was a big miss). We also need a position for Averillo eventually, Schoupp and Alamoti coming through.
I agree that hooker is our number 1 priority but we'll have money left over after that. Can't agree sorry that prop is our next priority when we can have 4 - 6 decent props already even if we shed Napa for 2022 (Thompson, Hetherington, Atoni, Ogden, and potentially RFM and Britt - on reduced minimum wage) AND when we only have 2 first grade standard centres in Cotric (former winger) and the other one is Hopa IF we decide to re-sign him that is.

If we re-sign Hopa he's just going to kill any momentum JAC, Cotric and Allan bring because he's just too slow to finish off tries or to create tries himself. When was the last time you saw Hopa dive on a loose ball in the in-goal to score a try ? (too slow). When was the last time he made a linebreak ? When was the last time he broke a tackle to score a try ? In recent memory I cannot recall him having ANY of these skills. The ONLY thing he is good at is catching and passing the ball quickly WOW !!!! We need a better younger faster, stronger centre to give us similar strike to Cotric on the other side of the field. Otherwise all our attack will be restricted to Cotric's side of the field only and thus easier for our opponents to defend. Hopefully Schoupp and Alamoti come good but there's no guarantee and that could take 2-3 years or more to find out. Even if we signed Staggs or Crichton there would be a wing spot available for whoever is best (Okunbor, Averillo, Schoupp)

If we move some of the 4M worth of talent on before 2022 including Napa, Hopa and Lewis there should be enough money left after signing Brandon Smith for Staggs or Crichton plus another decent established prop or even more if Atoni and / or Ogden don't work out.
 
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bradyk

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I agree that hooker is our number 1 priority but we'll have money left over after that. Can't agree sorry that prop is our next priority when we can have 4 - 6 decent props already even if we shed Napa for 2022 (Thompson, Hetherington, Atoni, Ogden, and potentially RFM and Britt - on reduced minimum wage) AND when we only have 2 first grade standard centres in Cotric (former winger) and the other one is Hopa IF we decide to re-sign him that is.

If we re-sign Hopa he's just going to kill any momentum JAC, Cotric and Allan bring because he's just too slow to finish off tries or to create tries himself. When was the last time you saw Hopa dive on a loose ball in the in-goal to score a try ? (too slow). When was the last time he made a linebreak ? When was the last time he broke a tackle to score a try ? In recent memory I cannot recall him having ANY of these skills. The ONLY thing he is good at is catching and passing the ball quickly WOW !!!! We need a better younger faster, stronger centre to give us similar strike to Cotric on the other side of the field. Otherwise all our attack will be restricted to Cotric's side of the field only and thus easier for our opponents to defend. Hopefully Schoupp and Alamoti come good but there's no guarantee and that could take 2-3 years or more to find out. Even if we signed Staggs or Crichton there would be a wing spot available for whoever is best (Okunbor, Averillo, Schoupp)

If we move some of the 4M worth of talent on before 2022 including Napa, Hopa and Lewis there should be enough money left after signing Brandon Smith for Staggs or Crichton plus another decent established prop or even more if Atoni and / or Ogden don't work out.
A lot of those props aren't good enough when comparing them to other NRL teams. Not one of them would make a top 20 list and I'm probably being nice to not extend that to top 30. The only thing I can diss Hopoate on is his speed and because of this he's in the solid bracket. With Hopoate's leadership values I think he's an important part to the team for the right price and we're not going to be locked in long term, we need a position for Averillo and Schoupp and Alamoti are coming through. If you're buying players/spending a lot of money, you don't do it where you have promising players coming through otherwise you're blocking their pathways. Since Barrett has already heavily targeted a prop in Leniu I'm confident he'll do something similar with someone like Emre Guler and we obviously need a hooker too.
 
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bradtalo

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A lot of those props aren't good enough when comparing them to other NRL teams. Not one of them would make a top 20 list and I'm probably being nice to not extend that to top 30. The only thing I can diss Hopoate on is his speed and because of this he's in the solid bracket. With Hopoate's leadership values I think he's an important part to the team for the right price and we're not going to be locked in long term, we need a position for Averillo and Schoupp and Alamoti are coming through. If you're buying players/spending a lot of money, you don't do it where you have promising players coming through otherwise you're blocking their pathways. Since Barrett has already heavily targeted a prop in Leniu I'm confident he'll do something similar with someone like Emre Guler and we obviously need a hooker too.
Thompson could be and should be (for what we're paying him) one of the best 10 props this year and Hetherington has great potential too. In his highlights reel he shows he can be an effective runner of the ball. Atoni was great when we won the reserve grade comp a few years ago and he's always shown good potential. He never got enough game time under Pay or Georgalis. I thought Ogden showed good potential last year also. He was hitting the line really hard in attack and hitting hard in defense. He should get more consistent with the improved fitness. RFM could easily play prop and Britt was fairly successful when he was with Souths. You would only expect 2 props from any team to be in the top 30 in the NRL and we would have to be close to that. Lenai wouldn't have made the top 20 - 30. Yes Guler looks big and strong and worth pursuing.

Young players will only usually have pathways blocked if the players ahead of them are playing very well. I hope we have that problem. If Schoupp or others turn out to be as good as Staggs or Crichton then great but there;'s no guarantee. If we can afford a Staggs or Crichton who are already proven then why not. There will always be injuries and young players for depth will get their chance at some time. We need depth and the more depth the better. Young players can also look up to, emulate and learn from established superstars playing the same position.

I really don't think we need Hopa's leadership values (we have Jackson for that and others). DWZ was NZ test captain. Elliott could be a good leader. Thompson also. JAC spoke about being a role model. Allan they say has an old head on young shoulders. I think the players will get the leadership they need from Barrett and our new coaching team. We need more skill than leadership at centre. We need more than someone just being solid (especially for the decent money Hopa is on)
 

TwinTurbo

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I agree that hooker is our number 1 priority but we'll have money left over after that. Can't agree sorry that prop is our next priority when we can have 4 - 6 decent props already even if we shed Napa for 2022 (Thompson, Hetherington, Atoni, Ogden, and potentially RFM and Britt - on reduced minimum wage) AND when we only have 2 first grade standard centres in Cotric (former winger) and the other one is Hopa IF we decide to re-sign him that is.

If we re-sign Hopa he's just going to kill any momentum JAC, Cotric and Allan bring because he's just too slow to finish off tries or to create tries himself. When was the last time you saw Hopa dive on a loose ball in the in-goal to score a try ? (too slow). When was the last time he made a linebreak ? When was the last time he broke a tackle to score a try ? In recent memory I cannot recall him having ANY of these skills. The ONLY thing he is good at is catching and passing the ball quickly WOW !!!! We need a better younger faster, stronger centre to give us similar strike to Cotric on the other side of the field. Otherwise all our attack will be restricted to Cotric's side of the field only and thus easier for our opponents to defend. Hopefully Schoupp and Alamoti come good but there's no guarantee and that could take 2-3 years or more to find out. Even if we signed Staggs or Crichton there would be a wing spot available for whoever is best (Okunbor, Averillo, Schoupp)

If we move some of the 4M worth of talent on before 2022 including Napa, Hopa and Lewis there should be enough money left after signing Brandon Smith for Staggs or Crichton plus another decent established prop or even more if Atoni and / or Ogden don't work out.
You really are down on Hopoate, unfairly so, which the facts simply don't support. In 13 games (4 at centre and 9 at fullback) last season he scored 2 tries, had 2 try assists, 3 line breaks, 21 tackle breaks and averaged 154 run metres per game. With what everyone thinks are shit players inside him giving him the ball without drawing the defence, giving him no space to work with and the forwards not setting a platform for him to work from.

Go Dogs
 

bradtalo

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You really are down on Hopoate, unfairly so, which the facts simply don't support. In 13 games (4 at centre and 9 at fullback) last season he scored 2 tries, had 2 try assists, 3 line breaks, 21 tackle breaks and averaged 154 run metres per game. With what everyone thinks are shit players inside him giving him the ball without drawing the defence, giving him no space to work with and the forwards not setting a platform for him to work from.

Go Dogs
Yes I'm down on Hopa but he just doesn't offer enough in my opinion for the salary he's on. That's exactly why the Eels let him go. He's reliable yes but also very average. Average has been good for us the last couple of years as it was better than most in our team but we need to get much better than average.

Meaney only played 3 more games but had better stats and got dropped at one stage. 16 games. 6 tries. 1 try assist., 10 line breaks, 35 tackle breaks and averaged 124 metres per game.

Even DWZ and we know how badly he played. 18 games. 2 tries, 1 try assist, 37 tackle breaks, 4 line breaks, average of 147 metres.

Reimis and we know how lazy he is 14 games, 4 tries, 0 try assists, 20 tackle breaks, 2 line breaks, 114 metres
 
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TwinTurbo

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Yes I'm down on Hopa but he just doesn't offer enough in my opinion for the salary he's on. That's exactly why the Eels let him go. He's reliable yes but also very average. Average has been good for us the last couple of years as it was better than most in our team but we need to get much better than average.

Meaney only played 3 more games but had better stats and got dropped at one stage. 16 games. 6 tries. 1 try assist., 10 line breaks, 35 tackle breaks and averaged 124 metres per game.

Even DWZ and we know how badly he played. 18 games. 2 tries, 1 try assist, 37 tackle breaks, 4 line breaks, average of 147 metres.

Reimis and we know how lazy he is 14 games, 4 tries, 0 try assists, 20 tackle breaks, 2 line breaks, 114 metres
Seriously, talk about expectation bias, comparing a wingers run metres to a centre (for more than 1/3rd of the games), they should be almost double the run metres compared to a centre. I don't think anyone doubts DWZ's ability to run the ball back hard every single time. He issue last season was dropped balls (ie; footballs). As for Meaney averaging 25% less run metres, for someone with his speed, that's a credit to Hopoate. RSmith is even worse at 35% less run metres.

FWIW your memory on his Eels departure in 2015 is a gross over simplification, he had played for them in 2013 and 2014 following his Mormon mission and they offered him a 3 year contract extension half way through 2014, obviously he wasn't playing that badly to be "let go". The fact is there were "legal issues" with his contract renewal which meant it wasn't registered with the NRL. As a result he sued them for $1.8m, which was eventually settled out of court for $400k as he had already signed with us (ie; reducing the loss of income claim).

Go Dogs
 

bradtalo

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Seriously, talk about expectation bias, comparing a wingers run metres to a centre (for more than 1/3rd of the games), they should be almost double the run metres compared to a centre. I don't think anyone doubts DWZ's ability to run the ball back hard every single time. He issue last season was dropped balls (ie; footballs). As for Meaney averaging 25% less run metres, for someone with his speed, that's a credit to Hopoate. RSmith is even worse at 35% less run metres.

FWIW your memory on his Eels departure in 2015 is a gross over simplification, he had played for them in 2013 and 2014 following his Mormon mission and they offered him a 3 year contract extension half way through 2014, obviously he wasn't playing that badly to be "let go". The fact is there were "legal issues" with his contract renewal which meant it wasn't registered with the NRL. As a result he sued them for $1.8m, which was eventually settled out of court for $400k as he had already signed with us (ie; reducing the loss of income claim).

Go Dogs
The figures I was referring to were more about tackle breaks and line breaks (and try assists) - stats where centres should be around the same as wingers. Meaney also played some fullback like Hopa. Meaney had only 3 more games but 7 more line breaks (10 to 3) and 14 more tackle busts (35 to 21) 1 less try assist (1 compared to 2). Yes Hopa had much better run metres but run metres don't necessarily score you points. (ie: Tolman always had great run metres although ineffective). If you think Hopa is decent then so is Meaney (who will only be depth this year once Okunbor returns). If you think Hopa is in the same class as Staggs or Crichton (who would only cost 100K - 200K more per season - less than the cost of a Lewis) then I don't know what to say.

Just for your information Staggs who played with the worst team in the comp last year (14 games only 1 more than Hopa) scored 10 tries (compared to 2), had 46 tackle breaks (21) and 12 line breaks (3). 1 try assist for average 97 metres. Besides run metres that shits all over Hopa and we could sure benefit from a player like that.

Would you be happy to have Cotric and JAC on one side of the field in 2022 and Hopa and Okunbor on the other side in attack ? I definitely wouldn't. Hopa and Oka would be lucky to score more than 4 tries combined in a whole season. Hopa is incapable of creating something from nothing and he's also incapable of converting half chances into tries because he lacks both pace and a decent sidestep. Crichton and Staggs both have the ability to regularly convert those half chances into tries. Watch their highlight reels if you don't believe me. For Hopa (500K - 600K) and Lewis (350K) if we can get Staggs or Crichton for 2022 and have change (and have Schoupp as depth) we would be crazy not to.

Regarding Hopa and the Eels, from what I remember they signed him from Manly for some ridiculous record amount like 800k a season. He did his mission and when he came back he was average (and always has been since) so they were happy to let him go.

The only time Hopa looked anything special was when he played with Manly - when they won the comp. It could be a similar story for Crichton (hot team making him look good) but Staggs has proved he can still perform even with a very bad team. Hopa is reliable yes but he's not going to score us points against the good sides and just like any team we desperately need points.
 
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Bulldog1966

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I think some of these things have to play out during the course of the year? potentially we miss a target or two i know(there are usually others pop up it's inevitable)but i like Bradtalo also have faith in our props rising up, just a hunch only but i reckon Hetherington is going to fire right up at the Dogs.
Unsure on Hoppa maybe on less $$$ and how long a contract is he offered? i'd suggest on only a year by year but reckon he would move on at that offer..
 

bradtalo

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I think some of these things have to play out during the course of the year? potentially we miss a target or two i know(there are usually others pop up it's inevitable)but i like Bradtalo also have faith in our props rising up, just a hunch only but i reckon Hetherington is going to fire right up at the Dogs.
Unsure on Hoppa maybe on less $$$ and how long a contract is he offered? i'd suggest on only a year by year but reckon he would move on at that offer..
I can't understand the people saying we need another prop as a priority when we have 4 pretty decent props already (not counting Napa) and we shouldn't buy a great young centre to replace Hopa because it will block the pathway for Schoupp - when they likely haven't even seen Schoupp play. At least our 4 props have all proved good enough to make first grade. Schoupp hasn't yet. I just wonder if they are the same people who said we shouldn't sign another half because it would block the pathway for Wakeham
 

SPEARTAKVIDREFS

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Staggs is extremely talented and might be worth that much money if he didn't have such a long injury history. Surely that would keep his price down or scare a few teams off. Any club would want to wait and see how he looks coming back from his ACL surgery before making that kind of investment.
There will always be injuries but after tying up so much money in he who shall not be named for the last couple of years, I think $650K+ is a big risk.
 

sgodllubsti

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either brandon smith or harry grant is not will not and wont be happening
 
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