Pay to be spared the axe for now... but Bulldogs’ $3m headache remains

[froggy]

What is the win ratio in first half of season when still a chance making the 8, back end of season wins are irrelevant

Just for the record here are Pay's stats since he has been coach:
First half of season 7 wins 25 losses 21% win ratio
Second half of season 12 Wins 11 Losses 52% win ratio.

That blows the "we have no cattle" theory out of the water. If we can manage that sort of win rate at the back end of the season then why can't he coach them to that at the start? This shows he is lacking something as a coach and cannot get these players performing consistently.

We are obviously some class players short of the top sides but nothing I have seen from Pay will convince me for 1) that he can turn this around and 2) that he can recruit the top line players. For god's sake he coached the NSW Under 20's for a few years and can't get them to come across either.

Pay has to go and we move from there. That's where it gets hard. My preference is to identify the next supercoach and take a shot at that. I've said before that Cameron Smith is worth a shot. What have we got to lose?

 

[CrittaMagic69]

Who do you want to coach over Pay who's "available"?

Fitzgibbon.

 

[bradyk]

Fitzgibbon.

After that no one? He's literally the only other coach currenty "available" that I'd consider to move on Pay for. I'm happy with Pay anyways (for reasons I've previously mentioned), my biggest concern is the roster.

 

[KiwiDog7]

Context is important. The first 25 minutes against the Roosters when they scored all their points was on the back of six agains, penalties and errors (if this is a representation of the coach, Bennett is a shit coach). After the first 25 minutes we played well. I also think we were the better "team" against the Sharks and I think we were unlucky not to win that game. On paper not one player in our team gets in the Roosters team, it's also inferior to the Sharks roster. If you think a top coach could transform this team you're wrong. I'll accept someone like Bellamy would get us an extra win or two during the season but that's about it. Back to playing for Pay, if you can't see the effort the boys are putting in and fighting until the end (four multiple years now) you're a terrible judge.

Don’t mix up context with excuses mate

Woulda coulda shoulda still equals a big Fat L!
Back end of last year after another winning run of meaningless games the Pay lovers were out in force like he was some super coach thinking that form would carry into this season when it mattered

Then we start the season like we have on every season under Pay

Post lockout we are so far off the pace with the new implementation of rules , one ref, ruck speed etc because Pay inability to make the correct adjustments

We have one win (over a struggling Dragons) to show for season 2020 thus far so you’re absolutely correct ‘context matters’.

Go Dogs!

 

[CrittaMagic69]

After that no one? He's literally the only other coach currenty "available" that I'd consider to move on Pay for. I'm happy with Pay anyways (for reasons I've previously mentioned), my biggest concern is the roster.

And who's fault is that? We missed O'Brien, Holbrook and Demetriou. Pay is fucking shit, end of. Couldn't give a fuck what your reasons are.

 

[bradyk]

Don’t mix up context with excuses mate

Woulda coulda shoulda still equals a big Fat L!
Back end of last year after another winning run of meaningless games the Pay lovers were out in force like he was some super coach thinking that form would carry into this season when it mattered

Then we start the season like we have on every season under Pay

Post lockout we are so far off the pace with the new implementation of rules , one ref, ruck speed etc because Pay inability to make the correct adjustments

We have one win (over a struggling Dragons) to show for season 2020 thus far so you’re absolutely correct ‘context matters’.

Go Dogs!

We're not expected to win any games based on roster. The fact the team and coach are getting any W's at all is amazing.

 

[bradyk]

And who's fault is that? We missed O'Brien, Holbrook and Demetriou. Pay is fucking shit, end of. Couldn't give a fuck what your reasons are.

No evidence to suggest Holbrook or Demetriou are better than Pay. O'Brien is also coaching a competitive roster.

 

[CrittaMagic69]

No evidence to suggest Holbrook or Demetriou are better than Pay. O'Brien is also coaching a competitive roster.

Suck harder

 

[The_Chimpster]

We're not expected to win any games based on roster. The fact the team and coach are getting any W's at all is amazing.

 

[bradyk]

View attachment 15554

Facts.

 

[bradyk]

Suck harder

Facts.

 

[wendog33]

Yes.

Behind the 8 ball still then. We were told that that problem was going to be fixed.

 

[Riggs80]

No evidence to suggest Holbrook or Demetriou are better than Pay. O'Brien is also coaching a competitive roster.

‘but we have evidence that Pay is not a coach for the future . Difference with all them is that they can all site recent success as assistants or head coach in England . Pays only success what start of 2000s as Stuart’s assistant. What did he achieve since as assistant , parra useless , Canberra got success once he left

 

[KiwiDog7]

We're not expected to win any games based on roster. The fact the team and coach are getting any W's at all is amazing.

No, that’s a cop out

We have a roster that can win games and at least be competitive against heavy weights but until this week Pay selections have been baffling

His game plans as always have been diabolical as well and I’m interested to see if he can make the adjustments on our defensive pattern which he couldn’t do on the run v Sharks where they scored all their tries on the up and in style.

I do acknowledge he’s not helped by being two players down on the roster and it’s not his fault however history will show the incidents (and Mad Monday) both happened on his watch and under his leadership

We are getting Thommo so with this current side I absolutely expect to win games

If he picks the team like this week and changes our game plan and works his bench better we will win games and then I will credit him for it

It starts this weekend

 

[Cappuccino]

we need to start somewhere.

We should chase McQueen. we can easily build a team around him.

Nasheed hacking accounts now too haha that suggestion is as bad as Lewis to lock

 

[bradyk]

‘but we have evidence that Pay is not a coach for the future . Difference with all them is that they can all site recent success as assistants or head coach in England . Pays only success what start of 2000s as Stuart’s assistant. What did he achieve since as assistant , parra useless , Canberra got success once he left

I'm judging Pay on what he's done here and he's done a terrific job considering the situation/conditions where he's actually exceeded expectations. You can argue this all you want but when you're predicted for the wooden spoon and finish 12th (and I think three points out of the eight) that's exceeding expectations. We've also picked up multiple wins where we were the underdog (which is almost every game - the latest vs the Dragons this year). Even off the back of that we were predicted to finish second last this year. That's based on roster. Pay passes the eye test for me as the players are continuing to put in 100% effort which is a reflection on the coach, and "playing for the coach". If you don't have the cattle or the players to create or finish an opportunity (or they just give away six agains, penalties and errors at crucial times) I really don't see how that's the coaches fault. We just don't have the roster and we're missing another three to five quality players in key positions (where we need to fill/strengthen), it's really that simple.

 

[bradyk]

No, that’s a cop out

We have a roster that can win games and at least be competitive against heavy weights but until this week Pay selections have been baffling

His game plans as always have been diabolical as well and I’m interested to see if he can make the adjustments on our defensive pattern which he couldn’t do on the run v Sharks where they scored all their tries on the up and in style.

I do acknowledge he’s not helped by being two players down on the roster and it’s not his fault however history will show the incidents (and Mad Monday) both happened on his watch and under his leadership

We are getting Thommo so with this current side I absolutely expect to win games

If he picks the team like this week and changes our game plan and works his bench better we will win games and then I will credit him for it

It starts this weekend

Unrealistic, sorry. Your first problem is what you expect right now and it's wrong.

 

[CrittaMagic69]

Unrealistic, sorry. Your first problem is what you expect right now and it's wrong.

Can say the exact same back to you, fucking ridiculous.

 

[wendog33]

If pay is really bad at communicating and is always being told to make changes, then why is the board still keeping him on?

He hasn't been told to make enough selection changes by the look of it.

Gets 4 weeks to show his credentials?

The players continually hearing they are an inferior team by fans, the commentators, the journos feeling sorry for Dean and say the poor coach can't do anything with them they are so average. What would our players be thinking when how poor a player they are is so openly discussed in the media? And we are supposed to believe that he still has the sheds?

The whole show is puzzling and disappointing for our club to say the least.

 

[KiwiDog7]

Unrealistic, sorry. Your first problem is what you expect right now and it's wrong.

If he’s doing such an outstanding job why did his bosses give him a 4 week ultimatum?