Pay to be spared the axe for now... but Bulldogs’ $3m headache remains

[TwinTurbo]

The $3m is BULLSHIT, it's a well know fact that journalists can't even add up primary school lunch money.

According to Zero, there are 15 players off contact this year, being Jack Cogger, Matt Doorey, Adam Elliott, Raymond Faitala-Mariner, Kieran Foran, Tyrone Harding, Morgan Harper, Kerrod Holland, Tui Katoa, Marcelo Montoya, Sauaso Sue, Isaiah Tass, Aiden Tolman, Brandon Wakeham and Sebastian Winters-Chang.

Foran is on $1.2m (back ended from Year 1 $0.8m and Year 2 $1.0m) and from the $3m that leaves $1.8m between 14 players.
Tolman is also in his last year of a back ended contract reportedly $700k (back ended from Year 1 $400k and Year 2 $550k). That leaves $1.1m between 13 players.
Leaving out the 3 players between 27 and 30 on $80k each, and the 2 Development players on $60k, that leaves $740k between 8 players.
That's $92.5k each ................. BUT the Salary cap is $110k minimum for 2020 .............. ooops.

So whoever in Foxsports wrote this needs to go back to primary school and learn how to add up, because plainly they can't

FWIW my quick back of the envelope addition ends up a bit over $4m.

Go Dogs

 

[DinkumDog]

Is that simple though? You'll only find out if Pay can attract players after its too late because you'll have to re-sign him.

If he attracts players great but if he doesn't you're left in a worse position then we are now.

Many on here called for Gus to be hired by the Dogs as an oversee-er, guru, coaching director whatever. If that’s his opinion what does that tell you?

He even questioned why the Warriors sacked Kearney in ‘a season of upheaval and for whatever reasons they did it, they must’ve had very good reasons’.

He spoke against the coaching merry-go-round and said the only other option is a rookie and often that backfires.

He referred to the Eels roster and said ‘look how long it’s taken them to build’.

As for us, it would be pretty simple if the club were hearing loud and clear that players wouldn’t sign if Pay stays. They’d have to act. So far they haven’t. Does something change tomorrow? Maybe, maybe not, but whatever happens must be attached to broader thinking, not reacting and installing caretakers etc.

 

[Spoonman84]

If a top coach is available, e.g. Bennett (short term option) and Bellamy level, it's all good to say that. The problem is from where I sit they're not available and we need to make a decision soon/now who our coach for 2021 will be. I don't think we can sit around waiting any longer (player recruitment) and I believe if a top coach (a coach with an aura) isn't available Pay is the best person for the job in 2021. What you say is true, but we don't necessarily have another option.

I don't think Pay is the best option and obviously the board has doubts over him too or he would have been signed by now.

I agree the club has to make a call and I'm not sure what they are waiting to see from Pay. They should already know if he's their best option going forward and few wins or losses in the next few weeks won't reveal anything new.

 

[bradyk]

The $3m is BULLSHIT, it's a well know fact that journalists can't even add up primary school lunch money.

According to Zero, there are 15 players off contact this year, being Jack Cogger, Matt Doorey, Adam Elliott, Raymond Faitala-Mariner, Kieran Foran, Tyrone Harding, Morgan Harper, Kerrod Holland, Tui Katoa, Marcelo Montoya, Sauaso Sue, Isaiah Tass, Aiden Tolman, Brandon Wakeham and Sebastian Winters-Chang.

Foran is on $1.2m (back ended from Year 1 $0.8m and Year 2 $1.0m) and from the $3m that leaves $1.8m between 14 players.
Tolman is also in his last year of a back ended contract reportedly $700k (back ended from Year 1 $400k and Year 2 $550k). That leaves $1.1m between 13 players.
Leaving out the 3 players between 27 and 30 on $80k each, and the 2 Development players on $60k, that leaves $740k between 8 players.
That's $92.5k each ................. BUT the Salary cap is $110k minimum for 2020 .............. ooops.

So whoever in Foxsports wrote this needs to go back to primary school and learn how to add up, because plainly they can't

FWIW my quick back of the envelope addition ends up a bit over $4m.

Go Dogs

I posted this in another thread,

"Good morning/afternoon boys and girls.

I never say this as facts. It's an estimated guess + my opinion.

If I was to go through our current contract players and have an estimated guess what they're on/we'd re-sign (that's also imo who we'd re-sign) them on it'd look something like this:

1. Averillo ~200k
2. DWZ ~500k
3. Hopoate ~500k
4. Reimis ~200k
6. Foran ~400k
7. Wakeham ~200k
8. Jackson ~600k
9. Elliott ~400k
10. JMK ~200k
11. To'omaga ~200k
12. Napa ~600k
13. Smith ~200k

That is ~4.2m

Other players off contract: Cogger, RFM, Harper, Holland, Montoya, Sue, Tass and Tolman.

Other players contracted for 2021

1. Britt ~200k
2. Crichton ~200k
3. Katoa ~200k
4. Meaney ~200k
5. Ogden ~200k
6. Stimson ~200k

That is ~1.2m

We know Thompson is coming for ~800k.

That means we already have ~6.2m/9.9m in the salary cap filled between 20 players (top 30). We have ~$3,700,000 to spend on 10 players. That's an average of ~370k per player.

Let's say we sign or promote 5 players on ~200k. That's another ~1m gone and we're left with ~$2,700,000. That leaves us with 5 spots to fill and a new average of ~540k per player.

I'd also just like to say a lot of players I have listed on ~200k are and would be on less. There will also be multiple players on or close to minimum wage (~115k in 2021). This will mean we'll have even more to spend and a higher average to spend per top player.

I hope this explains it. Also remember this is an educated guess.

*I forgot Lewis, include him with the 5 players on ~200k."

 

[bradyk]

I don't think Pay is the best option and obviously the board has doubts over him too or he would have been signed by now.

I agree the club has to make a call and I'm not sure what they are waiting to see from Pay. They should already know if he's their best option going forward and few wins or losses in the next few weeks won't reveal anything new.

I added to my post. It isn't "obviously" as they want to try and get a top coach to replace Pay, not just some other assistant coach or ex-coach that was given the flick.

 

[TwinTurbo]

Many on here called for Gus to be hired by the Dogs as an oversee-er, guru, coaching director whatever. If that’s his opinion what does that tell you?
He even questioned why the Warriors sacked Kearney in ‘a season of upheaval and for whatever reasons they did it, they must’ve had very good reasons’.
He spoke against the coaching merry-go-round and said the only other option is a rookie and often that backfires.
He referred to the Eels roster and said ‘look how long it’s taken them to build’.
As for us, it would be pretty simple if the club were hearing loud and clear that players wouldn’t sign if Pay stays. They’d have to act. So far they haven’t. Does something change tomorrow? Maybe, maybe not, but whatever happens must be attached to broader thinking, not reacting and installing caretakers etc.

I would add that Thompson signed for 2021 not knowing who the coach would be.
I don't believe that it is beyond imagination that half of the clubs would have grabbed Thompson if he showed any doubt about coming here because of coach doubt.
He knows the Titans coach rather well and even he couldn't change his mind.
Then he agreed to get here 6 months early, again not knowing who the coach might be next week let alone next year.

Is it possible that some are somewhat over emphasising the importance of who the coach is when a player is deciding which club to sign with?

Go Dogs

 

[Spoonman84]

Many on here called for Gus to be hired by the Dogs as an oversee-er, guru, coaching director whatever. If that’s his opinion what does that tell you?

He even questioned why the Warriors sacked Kearney in ‘a season of upheaval and for whatever reasons they did it, they must’ve had very good reasons’.

He spoke against the coaching merry-go-round and said the only other option is a rookie and often that backfires.

He referred to the Eels roster and said ‘look how long it’s taken them to build’.

As for us, it would be pretty simple if the club were hearing loud and clear that players wouldn’t sign if Pay stays. They’d have to act. So far they haven’t. Does something change tomorrow? Maybe, maybe not, but whatever happens must be attached to broader thinking, not reacting and installing caretakers etc.

I haven't wanted Gus in a role here his track record at Penrith isn't the best and his review at the Dragons hasn't done much for them either.

Look at the Knights a coaching change there has transformed them. Its not a black and white thing. Did Gus mention anything about that or leave that one out?

It would make it pretty easy if the club was hearing loud and clear players don't want to come because of Pay but what if they only find out in 6 months time when they haven't got the players they need.

 

[B-Train]

The $3m is BULLSHIT, it's a well know fact that journalists can't even add up primary school lunch money.

According to Zero, there are 15 players off contact this year, being Jack Cogger, Matt Doorey, Adam Elliott, Raymond Faitala-Mariner, Kieran Foran, Tyrone Harding, Morgan Harper, Kerrod Holland, Tui Katoa, Marcelo Montoya, Sauaso Sue, Isaiah Tass, Aiden Tolman, Brandon Wakeham and Sebastian Winters-Chang.

Foran is on $1.2m (back ended from Year 1 $0.8m and Year 2 $1.0m) and from the $3m that leaves $1.8m between 14 players.
Tolman is also in his last year of a back ended contract reportedly $700k (back ended from Year 1 $400k and Year 2 $550k). That leaves $1.1m between 13 players.
Leaving out the 3 players between 27 and 30 on $80k each, and the 2 Development players on $60k, that leaves $740k between 8 players.
That's $92.5k each ................. BUT the Salary cap is $110k minimum for 2020 .............. ooops.

So whoever in Foxsports wrote this needs to go back to primary school and learn how to add up, because plainly they can't

FWIW my quick back of the envelope addition ends up a bit over $4m.

Go Dogs

You're not taking into account signing Thompson or how much of an increase each player that has had their previous contract extended is receiving.

Some of them like Jackson and Hoppa would be on a similar amount to before. Others like DWZ, JMK, Reimis, Lewis, Wakeham, Renouf etc would be earning substantially more from next season onwards.

I'm not saying the actual figure isn't more than $3 million. I hope it is. What I'm saying is you need to factor in upgrades to contracts also.

Regardless, if they use whatever money they have wisely, then the rest will sort itself out. Hopefully they do because if they waste the cap space it could be a long, long time til we're a force again.

 

[Bazildog]

Many on here called for Gus to be hired by the Dogs as an oversee-er, guru, coaching director whatever. If that’s his opinion what does that tell you?

He even questioned why the Warriors sacked Kearney in ‘a season of upheaval and for whatever reasons they did it, they must’ve had very good reasons’.

He spoke against the coaching merry-go-round and said the only other option is a rookie and often that backfires.

He referred to the Eels roster and said ‘look how long it’s taken them to build’.

As for us, it would be pretty simple if the club were hearing loud and clear that players wouldn’t sign if Pay stays. They’d have to act. So far they haven’t. Does something change tomorrow? Maybe, maybe not, but whatever happens must be attached to broader thinking, not reacting and installing caretakers etc.

Mate..I dont know or speak for others but I suggested Gus to be involved to help Pay if that is the only plan the board and club have with the head coach. Even you have questioned some selections and positional play as have others only to be left scratching your head. You were just as upbeat about our chances this year as anyone because of our finish and recruitment etc, and even figured us as top 8 (its in a thread).

But now we are staring down the barrel of possibly 3 from our first 10 or maybe worse, surely that raises red flags even with you about our Coaching dept?

I dont believe and never really did, that we should just change for the sake of change. But I will be fucked if we just sit on our hands and miss out on the right players because the confidence isn't there for our coach, regardless of the money..

Gus isn't going to put forward Bennett, Bellamy or Hook, that would be to much like endorsing them. But if we dont bring in someone in some capacity (Football manager, Coaching Director, whatever) with real cred to spend the money we have, we will be fucked until enough top juniors come thru, and thats if they dont get pinched..

I have always backed the optimistic brigade and unconditionally back the club and still do, but something just isn't right, and something will happen..

 

[BULLDVGS]

I would add that Thompson signed for 2021 not knowing who the coach would be.
I don't believe that it is beyond imagination that half of the clubs would have grabbed Thompson if he showed any doubt about coming here because of coach doubt.
He knows the Titans coach rather well and even he couldn't change his mind.
Then he agreed to get here 6 months early, again not knowing who the coach might be next week let alone next year.

Is it possible that some are somewhat over emphasising the importance of who the coach is when a player is deciding which club to sign with?

Go Dogs

Hes said that he only got offered a contract from the Warriors, outside of the doggies.

 

[Cappuccino]

The $3m is BULLSHIT,

According to Zero...

It's bullshit!
According to this even less credible source

Then into a bunch of new assumptions and opinions

Hahahahaha

 

[Spoonman84]

The $3m is BULLSHIT, it's a well know fact that journalists can't even add up primary school lunch money.

According to Zero, there are 15 players off contact this year, being Jack Cogger, Matt Doorey, Adam Elliott, Raymond Faitala-Mariner, Kieran Foran, Tyrone Harding, Morgan Harper, Kerrod Holland, Tui Katoa, Marcelo Montoya, Sauaso Sue, Isaiah Tass, Aiden Tolman, Brandon Wakeham and Sebastian Winters-Chang.

Foran is on $1.2m (back ended from Year 1 $0.8m and Year 2 $1.0m) and from the $3m that leaves $1.8m between 14 players.
Tolman is also in his last year of a back ended contract reportedly $700k (back ended from Year 1 $400k and Year 2 $550k). That leaves $1.1m between 13 players.
Leaving out the 3 players between 27 and 30 on $80k each, and the 2 Development players on $60k, that leaves $740k between 8 players.
That's $92.5k each ................. BUT the Salary cap is $110k minimum for 2020 .............. ooops.

So whoever in Foxsports wrote this needs to go back to primary school and learn how to add up, because plainly they can't

FWIW my quick back of the envelope addition ends up a bit over $4m.

Go Dogs

Players contracts that end in 2020 are totally irrelevant for 2021.

You have no idea what part of Foran's $1.2 million or the other contracts that are finishing up have been used to sign other players.

 

[Bazildog]

I would add that Thompson signed for 2021 not knowing who the coach would be.
I don't believe that it is beyond imagination that half of the clubs would have grabbed Thompson if he showed any doubt about coming here because of coach doubt.
He knows the Titans coach rather well and even he couldn't change his mind.
Then he agreed to get here 6 months early, again not knowing who the coach might be next week let alone next year.

Is it possible that some are somewhat over emphasising the importance of who the coach is when a player is deciding which club to sign with?

Go Dogs

Or perhaps he knows more about who is coaching in 2021 then anyone on here does..

 

[no1bulldog]

How often do you hear from other clubs boards?

dunno but when Lynne took over it was like she was haunting me, open my phone and there she was in the news feed, switch on the tv there she was, open the paper bang there she was again....since the old board excuse ran out of puff they've gone underground

 

[TwinTurbo]

Hes said that he only got offered a contract from the Warriors, outside of the doggies.

Source; https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/se...gland-star-luke-thompson-20200204-p53xie.html
"The Bulldogs stunned the NRL world by landing Thompson's prized signature on Tuesday, beating the Rabbitohs, Warriors and Titans to the punch."

Just another journalist filing his column inches, but I did ask Holbrook personally about trying and missing out on Thompson. So I'd consider that one as solid.


Go Dogs

 

[Natboy]

dunno but when Lynne took over it was like she was haunting me, open my phone and there she was in the news feed, switch on the tv there she was, open the paper bang there she was again....since the old board excuse ran out of puff they've gone underground

That sounds like any around election time to be honest. I find that annoying too. Hopefully they have more to say very soon

 

[bradyk]

Source; https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/se...gland-star-luke-thompson-20200204-p53xie.html
"The Bulldogs stunned the NRL world by landing Thompson's prized signature on Tuesday, beating the Rabbitohs, Warriors and Titans to the punch."

Just another journalist filing his column inches, but I did ask Holbrook personally about trying and missing out on Thompson. So I'd consider that one as solid.


Go Dogs

I listened to a podcast recently with Luke Thompson (it was linked on these forums, he was talking to two people from England) and he was asked what other clubs were interested in him and the only other club that was in advanced talks were the Warriors (that he mentioned at least).

 

[GrogDog]

5 pages in and not one person has made a comment about the "Clubs aggressive recruiting" at the moment mentioned in the article LMAO.

The way I see it, the Board are deciding to have their fate decided by Dean Pay's abilities if they continue to sit back.

Is it 2021 the next election or the year after?

Will they come close to being voted out if things stay the same and someone decides to run against them? This time they were lucky because everyone was waiting for this amazing 2021 year that they promised.

 

[bradyk]

5 pages in and not one person has made a comment about the "Clubs aggressive recruiting" at the moment mentioned in the article LMAO.

The way I see it, the Board are deciding to have their fate decided by Dean Pay's abilities if they continue to sit back.

Is it 2021 the next election or the year after?

Will they come close to being voted out if things stay the same and someone decides to run against them? This time they were lucky because everyone was waiting for this amazing 2021 year that they promised.

Yes, everyone agrees with you but we have to wait until we know our 2021 roster before we start rioting or maybe we don't even have to...

 

[TwinTurbo]

5 pages in and not one person has made a comment about the "Clubs aggressive recruiting" at the moment mentioned in the article LMAO.
The way I see it, the Board are deciding to have their fate decided by Dean Pay's abilities if they continue to sit back.
Is it 2021 the next election or the year after?
Will they come close to being voted out if things stay the same and someone decides to run against them? This time they were lucky because everyone was waiting for this amazing 2021 year that they promised.

2022

Go Dogs