Opinion The 'Rebuild' Is A Disaster

[Dognacious]

That logic makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

You don't just leave him in his postion. You sack him and find someone better. You dont let him run the club to the ground. Who cares who is next. They will get a chance like Pay did.
But this time around our club is in a better financial position which makes it more attractive for future potential coaches.

Wouldn't matter if we had Bellamy as coach with the current squad. The biggest issue is more than half of the side would be canterbury cup players if we had better troops to choose from. We have a lot of average players in the side. Part of the problem is how many rookies we have in key positions. We need a few experienced players, which cost good money we havent had since Des bent us over. Wouldnt hurt if our best and most expensive player could stay on the field too.

Id like to see Pay with a side that at least looks like they should go well on paper. So far we have given Pay a 20 year old hyundai to try and win bathurst in. Not saying Pay is the answer long term, but i also dont think hes had much to play with to date. All he can do is try different things with what we have to try and find something that works. Buts its still a 20 year old Hyundai.

2 years ago we finish the year well, and then lose Klemmer and both Mozzes and other players. Last year we finished the year well and then lose Okunbor, CHN and Foran before round 1 this year. Pay hasnt had the best of luck either. Every time we have a combination of players that works, we lose players lately

 

[CrittaMagic69]

Wouldn't matter if we had Bellamy as coach with the current squad. The biggest issue is more than half of the side would be canterbury cup players if we had better troops to choose from. We have a lot of average players in the side. Part of the problem is how many rookies we have in key positions. We need a few experienced players, which cost good money we havent had since Des bent us over. Wouldnt hurt if our best and most expensive player could stay on the field too.

Id like to see Pay with a side that at least looks like they should go well on paper. So far we have given Pay a 20 year old hyundai to try and win bathurst in. Not saying Pay is the answer long term, but i also dont think hes had much to play with to date. All he can do is try different things with what we have to try and find something that works. Buts its still a 20 year old Hyundai.

2 years ago we finish the year well, and then lose Klemmer and both Mozzes and other players. Last year we finished the year well and then lose Okunbor, CHN and Foran before round 1 this year. Pay hasnt had the best of luck either. Every time we have a combination of players that works, we lose players lately

How about no?

 

[Moey]

Wouldn't matter if we had Bellamy as coach with the current squad. The biggest issue is more than half of the side would be canterbury cup players if we had better troops to choose from. We have a lot of average players in the side. Part of the problem is how many rookies we have in key positions. We need a few experienced players, which cost good money we havent had since Des bent us over. Wouldnt hurt if our best and most expensive player could stay on the field too.

Id like to see Pay with a side that at least looks like they should go well on paper. So far we have given Pay a 20 year old hyundai to try and win bathurst in. Not saying Pay is the answer long term, but i also dont think hes had much to play with to date. All he can do is try different things with what we have to try and find something that works. Buts its still a 20 year old Hyundai.

2 years ago we finish the year well, and then lose Klemmer and both Mozzes and other players. Last year we finished the year well and then lose Okunbor, CHN and Foran before round 1 this year. Pay hasnt had the best of luck either. Every time we have a combination of players that works, we lose players lately

We live in 2 diff worlds based on your view...

 

[bradyk]

1. DWZ - winger playing fullback, can't ball play, bad hands
2. Meaney - reserve grade fullback playing wing
3. Reimis - winger playing centre
4. Hopoate - solid centre, slow
5. Crichton - reserve grade winger, midget
6. Foran - injury prone
7. Wakeham - signing elsewhere?
8. Tolman - finished
9. JMK - reserve grade five-eighth playing hooker
10. Napa - intimidation?
11. Britt - bench/depth player starting
12. Jackson - solid second rower
13. Elliott - honestly our best player bar Foran

The worst spine in the NRL?
The worst backs in the NRL?
The worst forwards in the NRL?

As you can see Pay has a lot to work with. It also helps having next to no one to bring in from reserve grade as they're not good enough either bar Averillo who's on our bench now. Pay isn't a miracle worker, under similar conditions Nathan Brown at the Knights had a 26% win rate (which includes 2019 with a competitive squad) whereas Pay has a 35% win rate. Unless a top coach is available I can not get behind sacking Pay as I think it would be a backwards step (unless Pay has lost the dressing room).

Now player positions.
All of DWZ, Meaney and Hopoate are a bad fullback option for one reason or another.
Reimis is a winger not a centre. The only thing I can say regarding this is maybe we're in the market for a winger so we're moving Reimis early. This is also a problem because it allows Crichton to get into the side whereas we could have Averillo or Harper play centre.
Foran has barely played. Any halves combination without Foran is abysmal.
Tolman is finished and To'omaga should definitely be starting ability wise (even also over Napa). Tolman and Napa are both on massive money and it's Tolman's last year who is a club veteran.
JMK at hooker is abysmal but our other options are the same. I think Katoa should be given a chance with JMK on the bench just because our hooker position is that bad.
Britt isn't a starter. Our only other option really is RFM.

The only attacking threat in our team when Foran isn't playing is Elliott (CHN was a massive loss). Hopoate can create a few opportunities for his winger. There is next to no natural ability in this team and it's evident already that this new rule change isn't going to help us in anyway.

Our squad isn't really a 9.8m salary cap team. It's more like a 6m team. Foran and Tolman take up ~2m of the salary cap together and when you combine that with all the other issues this is what you get.

On paper I don't expect us to beat anyone bar the Titans where it's debatable they have more talent in their squad than us. We're not winning games through talent or individual brilliance.

I will be more upset with the Board than Pay if we don't have top spine players (fullback, half and hooker) recruited here for 2021. That's looking like the only way to revitalise the team. If we do that and Pay still fails and a top coach still isn't available that's when I'm for getting the next best thing (assistant or super league coach).

 

[wendog33]

1. DWZ - winger playing fullback, can't ball play, bad hands
2. Meaney - reserve grade fullback playing wing
3. Reimis - winger playing centre
4. Hopoate - solid centre, slow
5. Crichton - reserve grade winger, midget
6. Foran - injury prone
7. Wakeham - signing elsewhere?
8. Tolman - finished
9. JMK - reserve grade five-eighth playing hooker
10. Napa - intimidation?
11. Britt - bench/depth player starting
12. Jackson - solid second rower
13. Elliott - honestly our best player bar Foran

The worst spine in the NRL?
The worst backs in the NRL?
The worst forwards in the NRL?

As you can see Pay has a lot to work with. It also helps having next to no one to bring in from reserve grade as they're not good enough either bar Averillo who's on our bench now. Pay isn't a miracle worker, under similar conditions Nathan Brown at the Knights had a 26% win rate (which includes 2019 with a competitive squad) whereas Pay has a 35% win rate. Unless a top coach is available I can not get behind sacking Pay as I think it would be a backwards step (unless Pay has lost the dressing room).

Now player positions.
All of DWZ, Meaney and Hopoate are a bad fullback option for one reason or another.
Reimis is a winger not a centre. The only thing I can say regarding this is maybe we're in the market for a winger so we're moving Reimis early. This is also a problem because it allows Crichton to get into the side whereas we could have Averillo or Harper play centre.
Foran has barely played. Any halves combination without Foran is abysmal.
Tolman is finished and To'omaga should definitely be starting ability wise (even also over Napa). Tolman and Napa are both on massive money and it's Tolman's last year who is a club veteran.
JMK at hooker is abysmal but our other options are the same. I think Katoa should be given a chance with JMK on the bench just because our hooker position is that bad.
Britt isn't a starter. Our only other option really is RFM.

The only attacking threat in our team when Foran isn't playing is Elliott (CHN was a massive loss). Hopoate can create a few opportunities for his winger. There is next to no natural ability in this team and it's evident already that this new rule change isn't going to help us in anyway.

Our squad isn't really a 9.8m salary cap team. It's more like a 6m team. Foran and Tolman take up ~2m of the salary cap together and when you combine that with all the other issues this is what you get.

On paper I don't expect us to beat anyone bar the Titans where it's debatable they have more talent in their squad than us. We're not winning games through talent or individual brilliance.

I will be more upset with the Board than Pay if we don't have top spine players (fullback, half and hooker) recruited here for 2021. That's looking like the only way to revitalise the team. If we do that and Pay still fails and a top coach still isn't available that's when I'm for getting the next best thing (assistant or super league coach).

How do you explain the purple patch these no hopers, you've written off, achieved at the end of the last 2 seasons.

I reckon they are better players than what we've seen coach Pay get out of them.

 

[El Padrino]

How do you explain the purple patch these no hopers, you've written off, achieved at the end of the last 2 seasons.

I reckon they are better players than what we've seen coach Pay get out of them.

overachievers

 

[Bob dog]

Its not a rebuild, we just gotta take the lessons out of last year, we have been here before, what did we learn?
We finished the year playing for a bit of pride and not being the comps Lenny Losers.

 

[bradyk]

How do you explain the purple patch these no hopers, you've written off, achieved at the end of the last 2 seasons.

I reckon they are better players than what we've seen coach Pay get out of them.

Who was playing well at the back end of last year (refer to what I said for X player and tell me what wasn't there)? By that logic how do you explain Pay's purple patch coaching wise? At the start of the season I told all of yous you had unrealistic expectations and that's after last years "purple patch". I think we overachieved massively last year. I think it's unlikely you see that end of season run for three times in a row as well. I think they're better players (still one of the worst NRL teams on paper) when they have a few top players beside them, preferably in the spine positions. Last weeks game was disappointing (Manly 13+ expected) but on the flip side we shouldn't be competing with the Eels in round one either (Eels 13+ expected). Going of expectations we should lose to Dragons 1-12 this week. Lets see what result we get.

 

[Qld-Dog]

1. The young guys aren't getting quality minutes
2. We're persisting with 3 duds in the spine Lewis, JMK & DWZ
3. Pay is coach
4. Players out of position
5. We let go of CHN. Britt & Stimson step in lol

Please add to the list of things that are not right in this so called 'rebuild'. Or add positives if you disagree and think that the rebuild is on the right track.

You need $$$$$$$$$$$'s before we can do what you wish to do and that will not happen till next year so be patient Dude

 

[Qld-Dog]

Who was playing well at the back end of last year (refer to what I said for X player and tell me what wasn't there)? By that logic how do you explain Pay's purple patch coaching wise? At the start of the season I told all of yous you had unrealistic expectations and that's after last years "purple patch". I think we overachieved massively last year. I think it's unlikely you see that end of season run for three times in a row as well. I think they're better players (still one of the worst NRL teams on paper) when they have a few top players beside them, preferably in the spine positions. Last weeks game was disappointing (Manly 13+ expected) but on the flip side we shouldn't be competing with the Eels in round one either (Eels 13+ expected). Going of expectations we should lose to Dragons 1-12 this week. Lets see what result we get.

"Yous" are female sheep! stay cool dude, all will work out in the end, the money is just around the corner!

 

[Superuber]

1. DWZ - winger playing fullback, can't ball play, bad hands
2. Meaney - reserve grade fullback playing wing
3. Reimis - winger playing centre
4. Hopoate - solid centre, slow
5. Crichton - reserve grade winger, midget
6. Foran - injury prone
7. Wakeham - signing elsewhere?
8. Tolman - finished
9. JMK - reserve grade five-eighth playing hooker
10. Napa - intimidation?
11. Britt - bench/depth player starting
12. Jackson - solid second rower
13. Elliott - honestly our best player bar Foran

The worst spine in the NRL?
The worst backs in the NRL?
The worst forwards in the NRL?

As you can see Pay has a lot to work with. It also helps having next to no one to bring in from reserve grade as they're not good enough either bar Averillo who's on our bench now. Pay isn't a miracle worker, under similar conditions Nathan Brown at the Knights had a 26% win rate (which includes 2019 with a competitive squad) whereas Pay has a 35% win rate. Unless a top coach is available I can not get behind sacking Pay as I think it would be a backwards step (unless Pay has lost the dressing room).

Now player positions.
All of DWZ, Meaney and Hopoate are a bad fullback option for one reason or another.
Reimis is a winger not a centre. The only thing I can say regarding this is maybe we're in the market for a winger so we're moving Reimis early. This is also a problem because it allows Crichton to get into the side whereas we could have Averillo or Harper play centre.
Foran has barely played. Any halves combination without Foran is abysmal.
Tolman is finished and To'omaga should definitely be starting ability wise (even also over Napa). Tolman and Napa are both on massive money and it's Tolman's last year who is a club veteran.
JMK at hooker is abysmal but our other options are the same. I think Katoa should be given a chance with JMK on the bench just because our hooker position is that bad.
Britt isn't a starter. Our only other option really is RFM.

The only attacking threat in our team when Foran isn't playing is Elliott (CHN was a massive loss). Hopoate can create a few opportunities for his winger. There is next to no natural ability in this team and it's evident already that this new rule change isn't going to help us in anyway.

Our squad isn't really a 9.8m salary cap team. It's more like a 6m team. Foran and Tolman take up ~2m of the salary cap together and when you combine that with all the other issues this is what you get.

On paper I don't expect us to beat anyone bar the Titans where it's debatable they have more talent in their squad than us. We're not winning games through talent or individual brilliance.

I will be more upset with the Board than Pay if we don't have top spine players (fullback, half and hooker) recruited here for 2021. That's looking like the only way to revitalise the team. If we do that and Pay still fails and a top coach still isn't available that's when I'm for getting the next best thing (assistant or super league coach).

You make no sense at all. Your post are so painful to read because you seem to think your views are beyond doubt.

How is it you believe the club cannot start building the team roster except with marquee players in 2021. After 3 years we are no closer to anywhere near a so called rebuild and will need no less than 8 players next year to look like an NRL side. The more I think of it the more it’s looks like a we have been lied to by the board to get elected for the benefits associated with being a member

 

[bradyk]

You make no sense at all. Your post are so painful to read because you seem to think your views are beyond doubt.

How is it you believe the club cannot start building the team roster except with marquee players in 2021. After 3 years we are no closer to anywhere near a so called rebuild and will need no less than 8 players next year to look like an NRL side. The more I think of it the more it’s looks like a we have been lied to by the board to get elected for the benefits associated with being a member

You don't know what a rebuild is. We haven't even recruited yet. Our goal next year is to be a top eight team. We've had little to no money and for whatever reason with the little to no money we've had the club decided to not pay overs to attract top players and instead rejects and opportunists. Pay said we'd be looking for a "Ponga" (franchise player) for 2021. We'll know if we've been lied to next year. If contracts don't mean anything these days why not go out and buy the best spine players that aren't already on overs?

 

[DoggyStyla]

1. DWZ - winger playing fullback, can't ball play, bad hands
2. Meaney - reserve grade fullback playing wing
3. Reimis - winger playing centre
4. Hopoate - solid centre, slow
5. Crichton - reserve grade winger, midget
6. Foran - injury prone
7. Wakeham - signing elsewhere?
8. Tolman - finished
9. JMK - reserve grade five-eighth playing hooker
10. Napa - intimidation?
11. Britt - bench/depth player starting
12. Jackson - solid second rower
13. Elliott - honestly our best player bar Foran

The worst spine in the NRL?
The worst backs in the NRL?
The worst forwards in the NRL?

As you can see Pay has a lot to work with. It also helps having next to no one to bring in from reserve grade as they're not good enough either bar Averillo who's on our bench now. Pay isn't a miracle worker, under similar conditions Nathan Brown at the Knights had a 26% win rate (which includes 2019 with a competitive squad) whereas Pay has a 35% win rate. Unless a top coach is available I can not get behind sacking Pay as I think it would be a backwards step (unless Pay has lost the dressing room).

Now player positions.
All of DWZ, Meaney and Hopoate are a bad fullback option for one reason or another.
Reimis is a winger not a centre. The only thing I can say regarding this is maybe we're in the market for a winger so we're moving Reimis early. This is also a problem because it allows Crichton to get into the side whereas we could have Averillo or Harper play centre.
Foran has barely played. Any halves combination without Foran is abysmal.
Tolman is finished and To'omaga should definitely be starting ability wise (even also over Napa). Tolman and Napa are both on massive money and it's Tolman's last year who is a club veteran.
JMK at hooker is abysmal but our other options are the same. I think Katoa should be given a chance with JMK on the bench just because our hooker position is that bad.
Britt isn't a starter. Our only other option really is RFM.

The only attacking threat in our team when Foran isn't playing is Elliott (CHN was a massive loss). Hopoate can create a few opportunities for his winger. There is next to no natural ability in this team and it's evident already that this new rule change isn't going to help us in anyway.

Our squad isn't really a 9.8m salary cap team. It's more like a 6m team. Foran and Tolman take up ~2m of the salary cap together and when you combine that with all the other issues this is what you get.

On paper I don't expect us to beat anyone bar the Titans where it's debatable they have more talent in their squad than us. We're not winning games through talent or individual brilliance.

I will be more upset with the Board than Pay if we don't have top spine players (fullback, half and hooker) recruited here for 2021. That's looking like the only way to revitalise the team. If we do that and Pay still fails and a top coach still isn't available that's when I'm for getting the next best thing (assistant or super league coach).

Geez a lot of work went into this dribble! Pay lover please, EAD

 

[bradyk]

Geez a lot of work went into this dribble! Pay lover please, EAD

How am I a Pay lover? I said if a top coach is available he should be sacked regardless. For whatever reason you're expecting a miracle with the roster we have tho. Also saying everything I wrote is dribble means you don't have an argument for whatever you believe in. Go through the specifics and tell me what isn't true?

 

[El Padrino]

How am I a Pay lover? I said if a top coach is available he should be sacked regardless. For whatever reason you're expecting a miracle with the roster we have tho. Also saying everything I wrote is dribble means you don't have an argument for whatever you believe in. Go through the specifics and tell me what isn't true?

so what you are really saying is

 

[DogsOfWar1704]

Rebuild hasn’t even started yet so how is it a disaster?
Thompson’s a good start, bateman would be a boost.
I’d try for cotric or Brent Naden, Naden seems to have dropped out off favour at Penrith he’s been on the extended bench the last two weeks and on the casualty ward it doesn’t say he’s had any injuries?

 

[AucklandDog]

I think a vast majority of the kennel is hysterical and not rational.

Most "star, superstar, excellent", however use want to put it, players are off contract at the end of 2021.

There is a reason why the majority of the playing group at Canterbury, were given a one year extension only (for 2021) - perform or you will be replaced

As it stands - NOW, the only players contracted beyond 2021 are - Jackson (2023), Thompson (2023), DWZ (2022), Stimson (2022)

The remainder of the squad is off contract either this year or next year, along with Pay being off contract this year.

It is quiet obvious, even to the standard spastic, that there is a major overhaul coming soon, and no-one knows who will be coming or going due to the nature of the current contracts of the big players

The board made it clear from day 1 that it will be a tough few years and there number area which they will improve is junior development.

Thus far, they have promoted To'omaga, Wakeham and Averillo, and by the looks of it, these 3 kids will have very bright futures and hopefully locked up long term at Canterbury.

 

[DogsOfWar1704]

He’s been good so far. Would be a handy pick up!! Hopefully we go for him!

 

[Howie B]

View attachment 15118 He’s been good so far. Would be a handy pick up!! Hopefully we go for him!

That would be a good move

Hence we won’t do it

 

[bleedblue&white]

View attachment 15118 He’s been good so far. Would be a handy pick up!! Hopefully we go for him!

Definitely should be looking at this kid direct swap fo okunbor but better