News Bulldogs coach Dean Pay denies senior players wishes for mass changes

[bowleggedwog]

The tail is wagging the dog, Pay is letting these young wannabes dictate his selections. Lewis & Cogger are the worst halves pairing in our history and R Smith is a dead-set winger, has no idea at Centre. Whoever our Hooker is must have picked up the Lichaa handbook... no one wants to run the f’n ball! JMK runs out of dummy half 2 times a game when he should be going for a dart at least once in every second set like every other #9 in the game...

Pay just doesn’t have the coaching pedigree to attract talent and our roster/performances can’t attract a sponsor... What is this club doing to generate positive results????????

I prefer to have lichaa than king. Needed to lose 5k and play his game. In reserve grade all be it a weaker comp, he plays football. Gets out engages markers plays around the ruck with his forwards. Have a look how many tries scored by props in reserve grade. With the right coach lichaa would have been the 2nd or 3rd worst hooker in the comp not to worst like JMK. No ability.

 

[flamebouyant]

He has to be a dead man walking but let's not forget that the club is failing to get him more purebred cattle too. He wasn't lucky like Ricky and a couple others who walked into premiership standard teams.

Ricky is a good comparison. He was shocking for a number of years, even at Canberra. And he is only just starting to look good because of his star studded side. This is why I always stuck solid with Pay. Our roster is below average. Yet the issue I have now is that we actually do have some good juniors that are champing at the bit to play, and have a hell of a lot more to offer then what he is picking week in week out, yet they are not getting a run. If he is not willing to make these tough calls and drop underperforming players, then he has no chance of improving the teams chances.

 

[Tassie Devil]

Ricky is a good comparison. He was shocking for a number of years, even at Canberra. And he is only just starting to look good because of his star studded side. This is why I always stuck solid with Pay. Our roster is below average. Yet the issue I have now is that we actually do have some good juniors that are changing to the bit to play, and have a hell of a lot more to offer then what he is picking week in week out, yet they are not getting a run. If he is not willing to make these tough calls and drop underperforming players, then he has no chance of improving the teams chances.

Good post this and have to agree. Would love to give Pay more time but struggling to understand why he's not backing the juniors more as this is what the club and he have been talking about since he came in. Back to bringing through the juniors at the club.

We're playing shit. Let's throw some of those young fellas in there.

 

[flamebouyant]

the board are reluctant to make a call on pays coaching career, says a lot about the board doesn't it, cant make a decision that will set the club and team in the right direction

Do you remember reading an article recently where Vlandys said that up to 6 sydney based NRL teams could have gone bust? I don't think any club is in a position to sack and pay out a coach. And it doesn't make any sense to tap him on the shoulder after round 3. Who knows, we may even improve. So blaming the board and suggesting they can't make a tough decision is just nonsense.

 

[flamebouyant]

Good post this and have to agree. Would love to give Pay more time but struggling to understand why he's not backing the juniors more as this is what the club and he have been talking about since he came in. Back to bringing through the juniors at the club.

We're playing shit. Let's throw some of those young fellas in there.

I was really expecting some wholesale changes this week, but after he said Foran was not our saviour, he only added foran to the squad. WTF?!!! Averilo has shown more flair then any other player in our squad this year, and has played but a handful of minutes. The kid is a star in the making, and simply has to start. Just put him in any backline position and we will improve. I'm convinced of it. And now that Foran is back, play the inexperienced Wakeham with him.

 

[Natboy]

Do you remember reading an article recently where Vlandys said that up to 6 sydney based NRL teams could have gone bust? I don't think any club is in a position to sack and pay out a coach. And it doesn't make any sense to tap him on the shoulder after round 3. Who knows, we may even improve. So blaming the board and suggesting they can't make a tough decision is just nonsense.

Common sense prevails.
He’ll either finish the season or a fair settlement will be made.
We can’t afford to pay out the rest of his contract

 

[Tassie Devil]

I was really expecting some wholesale changes this week, but after he said Foran was not our saviour, he only added foran to the squad. WTF?!!! Averilo has shown more flair then any other player in our squad this year, and has played but a handful of minutes. The kid is a star in the making, and simply has to start. Just put him in any backline position and we will improve. I'm convinced of it. And now that Foran is back, play the inexperienced Wakeham with him.

The way I see it is this.

He had all of lockdown to decide how he was going to approach that first game. He wouldn't have made those decisions to start with Cogger, Lewis etc. rashly and in all honesty, they would've been the most thought through plans he's made in his lifetime of coaching. Those plans failed spectacularily. Utter embarrassment of a performance which was on the back of his selections.

The argument is what him sticking with the same team shows.

Is it showing that he's stubborn in his ways, refuses to change his approach, sticks to his guns at all costs?

Or is it a coach giving those "well thought out plans" a chance to come to fruition? To stick to those players who he showed loyalty to?

I'm not here trying to say that Pay's right or wrong about things (he's wrong btw). Just trying to understand the madness (imo) behind his selections decisions so far. As much as a majority on here hate him, there needs to be some reasoning behind his decision making as poor as that reasoning might be.

 

[2ndphase]

Whether the article is true or not atleast everyone is talking about it and it puts more pressure on the board.

 

[Kempsey Dog]

Good post this and have to agree. Would love to give Pay more time but struggling to understand why he's not backing the juniors more as this is what the club and he have been talking about since he came in. Back to bringing through the juniors at the club.

We're playing shit. Let's throw some of those young fellas in there.

Ricky is a straight shooter though, tells it like it is and isn't afraid to drops players or call them out in the media when deserved wether that be individual or as a group. He demands better despite his flaws. That's there difference

 

[2144superman]

The way I see it is this.

He had all of lockdown to decide how he was going to approach that first game. He wouldn't have made those decisions to start with Cogger, Lewis etc. rashly and in all honesty, they would've been the most thought through plans he's made in his lifetime of coaching. Those plans failed spectacularily. Utter embarrassment of a performance which was on the back of his selections.

The argument is what him sticking with the same team shows.

Is it showing that he's stubborn in his ways, refuses to change his approach, sticks to his guns at all costs?

Or is it a coach giving those "well thought out plans" a chance to come to fruition? To stick to those players who he showed loyalty to?

I'm not here trying to say that Pay's right or wrong about things (he's wrong btw). Just trying to understand the madness (imo) behind his selections decisions so far. As much as a majority on here hate him, there needs to be some reasoning behind his decision making as poor as that reasoning might be.

Interesting thought I guess and we will find out which way in the coming weeks pending on results and team selections about if he is stubborn in his ways or in fact was he following a plan.

 

[SweetFA]

Do you remember reading an article recently where Vlandys said that up to 6 sydney based NRL teams could have gone bust? I don't think any club is in a position to sack and pay out a coach. And it doesn't make any sense to tap him on the shoulder after round 3. Who knows, we may even improve. So blaming the board and suggesting they can't make a tough decision is just nonsense.

Pay is bringing back the madness, just the the kind we expected.
If he was worth his salt;
He would have asked one of his assistant coaches,
One senior player & Foran to rewatch that game by Monday morning & debrief.
Conclusion
DWZ is not our best option at FB
R Smith is not our best option in the Centres
Lewis is not our best option in the halves.
JMK is not our best option at #9
Britt is not our best option as an edge forward.
Tolman !!!!?????

It’s understandable that he doesn’t want to amend his top17 but the current formation doesn’t function.


1 Hopoate
2 DWZ
3 Harper
4JMK can tackle, pass played a lot of centre/fullback 5/8 at the Tigers lower grades. Or I Tass
5 Smith
6 JMK Averillo
7 Foran
8 Ogden
9 Katoa
10 Napa
11 Jackson
12 RFM
13 Elliott

14 JMK Averillo
15 Toomaga
16 Britt
17 Tolman

7 days is a long time in Football this time last week Pay was on the brink of a 12month extension.
His contract finishes at the end of this season, if on field performances don’t improve he will be gone soon rather than later.

 

[bricktamland]

The way I see it is this.

He had all of lockdown to decide how he was going to approach that first game. He wouldn't have made those decisions to start with Cogger, Lewis etc. rashly and in all honesty, they would've been the most thought through plans he's made in his lifetime of coaching. Those plans failed spectacularily. Utter embarrassment of a performance which was on the back of his selections.

The argument is what him sticking with the same team shows.

Is it showing that he's stubborn in his ways, refuses to change his approach, sticks to his guns at all costs?

Or is it a coach giving those "well thought out plans" a chance to come to fruition? To stick to those players who he showed loyalty to?

I'm not here trying to say that Pay's right or wrong about things (he's wrong btw). Just trying to understand the madness (imo) behind his selections decisions so far. As much as a majority on here hate him, there needs to be some reasoning behind his decision making as poor as that reasoning might be.

Anthony griffin worth a shot? Craig Fitzgibbon or Flanagan ?

 

[Chris Harding]

Canterbury coach Dean Pay has resisted making mass changes to his side to take on St George Illawarra despite calls from senior players to shake up the backline.

The Daily Telegraph can reveal a group of four senior Bulldogs players approached Pay following the Bulldogs’ 32-6 loss to Manly in Gosford on Sunday expressing their frustrations at the side’s winless start to the season.

It’s believed the players asked Pay to consider moving Will Hopoate from centre to fullback, Dallin Watene-Zelezniak from fullback to the wing, Reimis Smith from centre to the wing and for Kerrod Holland and youngster Morgan Harper to be selected at centre.

But Pay only made one change for Monday’s clash against the Dragons and that was naming Kieran Foran at five-eighth at the expense of Jack Cogger.

Foran was out injured with a serious shoulder injury he suffered last November while playing in a Test match for New Zealand against Great Britain.

His inclusion will add a much-needed boost and experience into Pay’s spine. Foran’s return also marks the Kiwi international’s 200th NRL match.

The Daily Telegraph can also reveal no deadline has been placed on Pay’s future but the club refused to guarantee he would see out the rest of the season.

Pay, who is off contract at the end of this year, is not only fighting to salvage his career at the Bulldogs but the team’s 2020 campaign.

It’s understood Pay met with CEO Andrew Hill and chairwoman Lynn Anderson on Monday to discuss his future and was told his side’s performance was unacceptable, but was offered any support he needed.

The club remains reluctant to sack Pay mid-season but there is no doubt calls for him to be replaced will only grow louder, particularly from disgruntled fans, if the Bulldogs can’t beat the Dragons, who are also winless and under pressure to find results.

While it is widely accepted Pay is coaching an inferior roster compared to others in the NRL, the Bulldogs entered the season on a high note.

Pay’s team ended last season with five from six wins, giving fans hope that they could improve on their 12th placed finish in season 2020.

But losses to Parramatta, North Queensland and the Sea Eagles to open their 2020 campaign has dampened those hopes.

The Bulldogs could receive a recruitment boost this season if the club is able to secure the release of St Helens forward Luke Thompson from the English Super League. Thompson signed a three-year deal to join Canterbury from season 2021 but the club is exploring ways to get him to Belmore this season.


Canterbury recently baulked at the opportunity to bring back local junior and experienced playmaker Josh Reynolds after they failed to agree the terms of his release with the Wests Tigers.

Former Bulldogs hooker and Cronulla premiership winner Michael Ennis blasted the club’s recruitment decisions after Sunday’s loss to the Sea Eagles. Ennis said pairing up Reynolds with Foran in the halves could help turn around the side’s on-field fortunes.

"If there’s a committee for recruitment, boy, oh boy – fair dinkum, do they want to win footy games?” Ennis said.

“They cannot score a point. Yes, they keep saying we want to bring local juniors through and this is our thing, and that’s fantastic.

“The solution is put Foran in when he’s healthy, and put Reynolds next to him.

"They’re two quality halves who can manage them through this period. Josh’s deal would only be for 18 months.

“It’s frustrating, it’s really frustrating as a former player to see how hard some of their players are working, and the pain they’re going through and not getting any reward for it.”

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/s...s/news-story/be5e187da028715f81ebcd8c8e110f3b

But is it true? This is typical Murdoch reporting. No names, just suggestions that it happened, and no evidence to back it up.

Murdoch is good at having a reporter ask you - are you a wife basher? You say "of course not". They go back, and run the headline
"BILL DENIES HE IS A WIFE BASHER!"
Next time someone mentions Bill, everyone says - "Oh, you mean the wife basher?"
Lazy, grubby journalism. Believe it when they give names and instances.

There was a time when journalism was Who What Why Where? Now it's unsupported rumours.

 

[Longtimedog]

Unfortunately Jacko is playing with passion but little effect.

Do you recall the look on Jackson's face walking off at halftime? He looked pissed. Wouldn't doubt he had something to say.

 

[diddly]

I dont think it would be unusual for senior players to offer their opinions on how to improve results - what is unusual is that its leaked and reported as it has been.
Any coach would struggle with the squad - its weak - BUT is Pay developing players with potential to become quality first grade players? Is he selecting the right players in the right positions? Does he instill confidence with his media performances? - id say no to all three.

Struggling but improving is completely different to just struggling - atm the indicators are that he is struggling.

 

[Chris Harding]

If there is any inkling of truth sprinkled into this story, I hope it wasn’t Hill / Anderson asking Pay what he needs? It’s time to run the club like a football powerhouse not a nursery school. Backslapping happens pre-season not when you are zero wins, can’t score a point and and and ....we’ve copped years if this garbage. Who is making changes and taking decisions to steer the place forward ?

The story is reflecting the views of most of the Kennelers - and I wonder whether they've just invented a story based on that. The suggested team changes are almost word for word from our comments; and we know their "journos" trawl the Kennel for "scoops".

The Telegraph is just Twitter with a paywall.

 

[B-Train]

Common sense prevails.
He’ll either finish the season or a fair settlement will be made.
We can’t afford to pay out the rest of his contract

You talk about common sense, let's use some.. I don't think it would cost much to pay out the rest of his deal.

He's in the last year of his contract. He was already the lowest paid coach in the league by a fair margin. He's already taken a pay cut this season and the way NRL payments work, he would have been paid for most of this season already despite it being round 4.

So I highly doubt that sacking Pay early will put the club in financial ruin when there'd be no more than 150k left to pay on his deal factoring in the pay cut and what's already been paid.

 

[DinkumDog]

The story is reflecting the views of most of the Kennelers - and I wonder whether they've just invented a story based on that. The suggested team changes are almost word for word from our comments; and we know their "journos" trawl the Kennel for "scoops".

The Telegraph is just Twitter with a paywall.

Baffles me why anyone would ascend that paywall with their hard earned too .

 

[SweetFA]

They’d have to know. Can’t not.

I don’t think Bellyache is realistic.
He’s said this Storm deal is his last.
He likely doesn’t need the money or the aggravation and unless he just can’t stop like Skeletor then to me it’s likely he’ll coach the second Brisbane team if they’re admitted and if he wants a new challenge.

Bellamy will be succeeded by either A O’Brien or Madge. Bellamy will head up the 2nd Brisbane franchise.

 

[DinkumDog]

You talk about common sense, let's use some.. I don't think it would cost much to pay out the rest of his deal.

He's in the last year of his contract. He was already the lowest paid coach in the league by a fair margin. He's already taken a pay cut this season and the way NRL payments work, he would have been paid for most of this season already despite it being round 4.

So I highly doubt that sacking Pay early will put the club in financial ruin when there'd be no more than 150k left to pay on his deal factoring in the pay cut and what's already been paid.

Can we do the same with Foran then Ben if we’re looking at ways to move people on?