News Is Pay having a fluffy?

[Bazildog]

I really don't understand why so many are so sensitive when you question Pay's record and tactics and whether he should be re-signed or not.

It's professional sport. Every player, coach and referee are under pressure to perform every game. If a player gets three seasons to prove himself but doesn't establish himself during that time then we have no problem if the club releases that player. We don't make excuses for them or say let's give them another two seasons to see how they perform with better players around them.. Why should Pay be any different?

You guys act as if he's a favourite son of the club but he deserted the club in 96 and I think he's been lucky to have coached FG for three seasons.. Especially considering his lack of a resumè and poor record.. The club don't owe him anything moving forward.

If we're 3-7 or 2-8 after the next two months would you still want him re-signed? We had the worst attack in the comp last year yet some of you act like it's sacrilege to doubt him after two plus years of ugly, slow motion and predictable footy..

To be fair, all that you say is valid as the record simply looking at the stats is not flattering. Its easy to make excuses with the very real mess that Des era left behind but I also agree with a few here that say at some point there has to be accountability. Covid-19 has messed up the season for everyone and not just Pay or the Dogs so that cant be added to excuses or time.

Its his third year and I think there have been many confusing coaching decisions and although we had young guys they now have had plenty enough experience to show there thing. Regardless of the "expert" opinions we all have on the Kennel none of our views mean shit when it comes to the KPI's that should be in place for the coach and board regarding our progress.

With 18 rounds ahead, we should win at least 45-50% of them or damn close and be competitive every week, finish no lower than 8-10 on the ladder and have made at least one major signing (preferably a gun representative young half or fullback).

Nathan Brown had the job from hell after Bennett and finished his 3rd year in only 11th on the ladder with just 9 wins, but had Pierce, Ponga, Conor Watson, Herman Essese, Aidan Guerra, Jacob Lillyman, Chris Heighinton, Shaun Kenny-dowell, Jamie Buhrer, Nathan Ross, + Nick Meaney and Cogger and some handy young forwards.. He then got Klem and still got the punt in 2019.

The club needs to flex its muscle and build around at least one star (not a Thompson/Bateman) to give old mate Pay his best shot, but Pay still needs to deliver a decent result with what we have now including Poppy Foran, otherwise the board will need to act swiftly to save 2021 and possibly the own butts..

 

[KLil]

Again, Here's where the problem...
1. The hooker lacks true direction, organizing and speed
2. The halfback has no idea what a halfback should play like, but can tackle
3. The five-eight exceptional if he stays on the field
4. The center very talented but not your classic center
5. The fullback that isn't a fullback
6. The wing that is not a wing
Does this sum it up ?
Please don't get me started on the forwards

In all honesty I can find another 10 just for the backline

 

[B-Train]

To be fair, all that you say is valid as the record simply looking at the stats is not flattering. Its easy to make excuses with the very real mess that Des era left behind but I also agree with a few here that say at some point there has to be accountability. Covid-19 has messed up the season for everyone and not just Pay or the Dogs so that cant be added to excuses or time.

Its his third year and I think there have been many confusing coaching decisions and although we had young guys they now have had plenty enough experience to show there thing. Regardless of the "expert" opinions we all have on the Kennel none of our views mean shit when it comes to the KPI's that should be in place for the coach and board regarding our progress.

With 18 rounds ahead, we should win at least 45-50% of them or damn close and be competitive every week, finish no lower than 8-10 on the ladder and have made at least one major signing (preferably a gun representative young half or fullback).

Nathan Brown had the job from hell after Bennett and finished his 3rd year in only 11th on the ladder with just 9 wins, but had Pierce, Ponga, Conor Watson, Herman Essese, Aidan Guerra, Jacob Lillyman, Chris Heighinton, Shaun Kenny-dowell, Jamie Buhrer, Nathan Ross, + Nick Meaney and Cogger and some handy young forwards.. He then got Klem and still got the punt in 2019.

The club needs to flex its muscle and build around at least one star (not a Thompson/Bateman) to give old mate Pay his best shot, but Pay still needs to deliver a decent result with what we have now including Poppy Foran, otherwise the board will need to act swiftly to save 2021 and possibly the own butts..

I agree that Brown did a terrible job at Newcastle with a great squad last year. But he was always a short term stepping stone coach while they through the mess Bennett and Tinkler left them in. Pay was also always a stop gap solution as no one else would take the job.

Now that we finally have cap space, should we risk having a year of disappointment like Newcastle did last year just because they want to be loyal to Pay or should they be proactive instead of reactive and not risk wasting a season with a coach that was never the long term answer like Brown wasn't. Or like Kearney and McGregor aren't..

 

[Spoonman84]

You can say what you want mate. I've just noticed your increasing level of negativity to Pay and the club and they're not even playing - that's what I don't get.
So on that note, how do you turn those young blokes into NRL players? A normal season this year would've allowed that - and it's likely several of them will get game time from next weekend considering we aren't contenders this year.
Brian Fletcher? He left the NRL 15 years ago! Clearly a lot has changed since then. But yes, I would agree it's never a good idea for a coach to be too much of a mate to his squad - we've seen that fail with the likes of Jason Taylor. At the opposite end of the scale you have Madge - probably wouldn't want that either.

What has come out of the club to be positive about for the last few months? Thompson’s signing was the only bright spot and that has been off set by another scandal and in turn weakening our roster even more.

The two games didn’t really leave me with much optimism for when the comp restarts and with our draw in the next few weeks it’s looks like we will be out of contention by round 10 again.

Clubs like the Tigers are out smarting us and it just feels like we are making no progress. All the eggs are in one basket for a recruitment drive for next year to break this cycle the club has been in for the last three years.

My point on developing players into NRL players is Pay hasn’t done that with anyone yet. Developing young players and making them better is supposed to be his bread and butter. You’d think there would have been one or two at the least that he could hang his hat on but in my opinion there isn’t.

 

[Natboy]

You agree he was one of the form centres playing on the right?
Do you think he deserves another chance on his preferred side with reimis next to him....i do..

They had a pretty good combination I agree but I don’t think they troubled the opposition so much that it was impossible to split them up to strengthen the squad overall

 

[DinkumDog]

Dinkum, I respect your opinion and contributions on here.. I know your opinion differs to mine on this and you're entitled to it. I'm sure we'll agree on plenty of other issues..

Where I get frustrated is when people claim people who question certain things aren't patient or aware of the circumstances or simply aren't true fans. I have absolutely no grudge against Pay and never have. But after watching our team play under his coaching for two plus seasons, I don't think he's deserving of getting a contract extension. I don't see what the crime is in having that opinion.

No crime at all Ben.
Under ‘normal’ circumstances I’d most likely agree with you. I just don’t think the club has faced normal circumstances in the past two seasons - particularly with 10% of our cap on the sideline for 50% of that time. That has unquestionably contributed to our poor performances without that class or experience to assist our otherwise young squad.

I don’t agree with everything Pay has done - I just don’t see a credible alternative to coach in 2021. 2022 is a different story if he can’t improve our results with a better squad next year.

Regardless of how any of us feel I think it’s likely he’ll be extended and those who that’s going to upset might as well start preparing for that outcome.

 

[B-Train]

No crime at all Ben.
Under ‘normal’ circumstances I’d most likely agree with you. I just don’t think the club has faced normal circumstances in the past two seasons - particularly with 10% of our cap on the sideline for 50% of that time. That has unquestionably contributed to our poor performances without that class or experience to assist our otherwise young squad.

I don’t agree with everything Pay has done - I just don’t see a credible alternative to coach in 2021. 2022 is a different story if he can’t improve our results with a better squad next year.

Regardless of how any of us feel I think it’s likely he’ll be extended and those who that’s going to upset might as well start preparing for that outcome.

Oh I'm prepared for it and expect it! Haha. I hope whatever they decide that they wait til late in the season before they make a decision so that his record can determine his fate.

 

[Teddybear]

But here's the thing blind Freddy can see it weakened the team...those 2 had something special....now I ask you what do we have in terms of attack??

They had a pretty good combination I agree but I don’t think they troubled the opposition so much that it was impossible to split them up to strengthen the squad overall

 

[sgodllubsti]

the sooner people see the crafty play on the BULLDOGS DNA words used by the board the better
there is no such thing as bulldogs dna, that died along with bullfrog, what we have is a group of people related to bullfrog who are trying to convince us they can do what the great man did .

way back when bullfrog was in charge things were very different and business was conducted very differently in regards to getting players to the club. bullfrog wanted someone he went and got that person, rarely missing his man

lyn, the board, pay, have no bulldogs dna they only have an association with the club through family or playing for the club, nothing else, they cannot go out and get anyone as they are no one themselves.

we are failing on so.many levels, mid year 2020 with only 1 signing of significance for next year, a host of players off contract and we are no better off than we were 3 years ago when we had a lot of cap restraints. we have no fullback no halves no hooker

we need success to build greater success we will not do that with this board coach or recruitment personal, more of the past few years for us with no likely changes

 

[Bad Billy]

Pay won’t rest anybody.
His career is on the line this year.
If anything he’s, more likely to play people injured

 

[Moey]

Pay is fkn useless. End of story.

Any coach besides Pay would be an upgrade. Storm didnt know Bellamy was going to be a freak. Nobody knew anything about Roosters coach a few years ago etc etc
They took a punt on rookie coach and it worked. Sticking with Pay using the "there is no one else " is a losers attitude plain and simple.

We bought Hasler and look where that got us... and before u say but we made 2 GFs. But did we win... nope. No premierships since 04. I dont care how many Gfs we made or semism we havnt won anything in 16yrs

We can't even pick a half decent nines squad... lol

 

[flamebouyant]

Oh I'm prepared for it and expect it! Haha. I hope whatever they decide that they wait til late in the season before they make a decision so that his record can determine his fate.

I can't help but feel as though you have already written him off as a failure for this year. He might just surprise you too. I just wish people could just try to be a little more optimistic about the tough position that the club and coaching staff are in.

 

[B-Train]

I can't help but feel as though you have already written him off as a failure for this year. He might just surprise you too. I just wish people could just try to be a little more optimistic about the tough position that the club and coaching staff are in.

I was cautiously optimistic heading into the season. That all changed when two weeks into his third year the team looked as bad and poor in attack as it ever has under Pay.

People act as if we have no First Graders in our squad and we're lucky to not lose every game by 50. As if we should be thankful that we start off every season under Pay 3-10 and that no other coach could do better in the same circumstances.

Pay had recruited most of the team. If we keep regressing in his third season, then I can't see why you'd keep that person on for a fourth and fifth year.

 

[maroondog72]

Lol **** has no idea

 

[Gabs]

There is only so much a grumpy old dogs supporter like me can take. This will be the fourth season in a row we miss the finals. I can’t remember that happening in my fourty odd years as a Bulldogs supporter.

I am sick of excuses. Des, Raelene, salary cap, off field incidents, the dog ate my homework, blah blah. I don’t want to hear excuses. Apparently we’ve got a shed load of money in our salary cap for next season. We’ve signed a Pommy front rower. That’s Great. How about a halfback, fullback and Hooker? They are the most important positions in a team.

 

[Teddybear]

Its all good mate
We have dwz,wakeham,jmz.

There is only so much a grumpy old dogs supporter like me can take. This will be the fourth season in a row we miss the finals. I can’t remember that happening in my fourty odd years as a Bulldogs supporter.

I am sick of excuses. Des, Raelene, salary cap, off field incidents, the dog ate my homework, blah blah. I don’t want to hear excuses. Apparently we’ve got a shed load of money in our salary cap for next season. We’ve signed a Pommy front rower. That’s Great. How about a halfback, fullback and Hooker? They are the most important positions in a team.

 

[DinkumDog]

Oh I'm prepared for it and expect it! Haha. I hope whatever they decide that they wait til late in the season before they make a decision so that his record can determine his fate.

I get that - but in the absence of a true alternative for 2021, does it really matter when the decision is made? It's possible the decision is already made pending other outcomes.
First things first - let's hope we can knock over Manly next weekend .

 

[maroondog72]

I knew this dumb **** would start with this shit anyone who thinks he is a genuine first grade coach is Fukn delusional.

 

[D- voice]

Well mate if that happens they will lose their positions in early 2022 and I won't be supporting them either.
That will be incredibly disappointing if it plays out that way and they haven't been able to turn us around in the timeframe they committed to do so.
They were upfront in 2018 about the road back and that the goal was always 2021. I still believe there will be roster improvements for next year - but we're unlikely to hear anything before 30 June.
If I'm wrong I'll be the first to wear it and be as annoyed as any other Dogs fan - but for now the benefit of the doubt remains.

The way I look at the whole scenario...
The new board was voted in, they chose to offload players in order to implement a way to deal with the salary cap debacle, and that's fine by me.
We both agree, Their plan must be executed in the set time frame.
I hate to see our team and club weakened only to become an easy target for the CROOKS that is the NRL (News Ltd & Nine networks)
Our on field success was and should always be our strength it's the magnet to high fan base and corporate support
Without...I worry we will be doomed !!!

 

[DinkumDog]

What has come out of the club to be positive about for the last few months? Thompson’s signing was the only bright spot and that has been off set by another scandal and in turn weakening our roster even more.

The two games didn’t really leave me with much optimism for when the comp restarts and with our draw in the next few weeks it’s looks like we will be out of contention by round 10 again.

Clubs like the Tigers are out smarting us and it just feels like we are making no progress. All the eggs are in one basket for a recruitment drive for next year to break this cycle the club has been in for the last three years.

My point on developing players into NRL players is Pay hasn’t done that with anyone yet. Developing young players and making them better is supposed to be his bread and butter. You’d think there would have been one or two at the least that he could hang his hat on but in my opinion there isn’t.

Well, what were your 2020 expectations? Mine weren't significant knowing 2021 was always when we could become competitive again squad wise.
As for the scandal, how is that the club or coaches fault? It was the two selfish former employees who brought that on everyone.
Thompson could've been announced at any time - he was always for 2021 - never in contention to join in 2020.
It might be a different story for other signings - already agreed but won't be announced before 30 June as if their existing clubs wanted to cut them loose early, we couldn't accommodate them this year.
That situation has now potentially been complicated by the Rona, whatever the new broadcast deal ends up being and how that may effect the cap moving forward. It might not simply be a reduction in the cap - but structural change coming.
Hence some potential announcements were held back.
Whatever the story - I just refuse to believe the club is doing nothing as many claim just because nothing has been said publicly - it's clearly deliberate.
How are we being outsmarted by the Tigers? The Grant thing?
They haven't outsmarted us trying to palm Reynolds back on us (to date) and with each passing day that's less and less likely (I never really believed it anyway).
Fair enough, the Grant thing is somewhat creative but I don't see how that's 'outsmarting' us. He'll go back to Melbourne once Cam Smith retires and it'll be forgotten.
On developing players - a rising tide lifts all boats, right? How can you achieve that when 10% of your cap in one player (ie: your most experienced and talented player) has been on the sideline for 50% of the time - not allowing the tide to rise (ie: young players able to learn and grow playing with said experience). Foran being out so much hasn't only been about how much money we've blown on him, but has proven the constraint on the rest of the club, including the coach and emerging squad from moving forward. That changes at the end of this year, regardless of whether he is retained or not.