Pay Admits Time Running Out

bricktamland

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Yes ! So excited for the madness for 2 more years ! Going to be mAd !
 

SPEARTAKVIDREFS

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I really think we should go hard for bellyache hes done everything at the storm high achievers always want new challenges,its not as far fetched as it sounds but if we dont even try its not a chance
I agree with this. We need someone with balls, experience and a good footy brain. Bellamy wont tolerate mediocrity. We were so great in the 80's. No nonsense. I think he'd be the bloke that could return us to being dangerous and entertaining. Steer us during this period of a circus that is the NRL and get us back to being a strong, professional team. Couple that with our pride and rich history. I think he'd be a draw card for quality players aswell. Every year the Storm start the comp like they are a strong contender to win it. We deserve better. I like Pay but I just dont see us making it with him.
 

WFC03

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It does matter who coaches us now. For fuk sake sign Flanagan for 2 years ...we need a high profile coach with the ability to attract quality players. Players like Fifita would never consider our club if they could sign with another team with a more high profile coach.
People really need to stop saying sign Flanagan for 2 reasons. First he is not allowed to be a first grade coach until after the 2021 season and that is only if he meets all the nrl’s rule and criteria (and we know how that worked for him before) .
And secondly the only reason the sharks won the premiership under him is because they were all drug cheats. And if you disagree go look up the stat decs they signed when accepting the 8 week suspension they took. He had them juiced up for 2 year which helped build their stamina and strength and by the time they were off the stuff they already had the base built (like a good ore season) to build off. Is it any surprise the best stats those players every put together were the years following the end of their drug regime?
 

bradyk

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So coming 12th two seasons in a row with the worst attack in the comp each year and a 0-2 record to start the third season is enough to earn an extension and exceeds expectations? Paul Langmack and Jason Taylor would be 10 year coaches with such a low bar.

Has our team improved over his three seasons in charge? We average the least amount of points in the comp each season. We start off each season last or second last for the first half of the year and "go on a run" late in the season and even then still only finish 12th!

So what has Pay done to warrant an extension? How has he improved the team during his tenure? Our defence has improved but everything else has stagnated or regressed. People suggesting to extend him are out of their minds. Talk about settling for mediocrity..
I'm not saying it's good but when I look at the team we're putting out it isn't good enough to compete with anyone bar the Warriors and Titans (that's why we've overachieved). Next year is a different ball game so if it's much the same in 2021 then I'm all for bashing Pay. The first reason Pay is coaching us is that he was the best person we could get due to the position our club was in regarding our salary cap... I wonder why that is!

I honestly believe if we add three to four more signings to go with Luke Thompson we'll be a top eight team (that's with Pay as coach) or that'll be the expectation at least. Now if you want us to be a title contender (winning the premiership/Grand Final) I think you're going to be waiting until at least 2024.

We have potentially the worst spine in the competition (without Foran - who still isn't enough himself against top teams) and you think we're going to score points when we're lacking in the backs too? We don't have dynamic props either (Tolman offers literally zero in the final third). Where are points coming from? I think that's the main reason our attack sucks...
 
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BulldogsNRL

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If no pay right now then who can be our head coach as of right now, we can’t have flank so who should coach us then
 

bradyk

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People really need to stop saying sign Flanagan for 2 reasons. First he is not allowed to be a first grade coach until after the 2021 season and that is only if he meets all the nrl’s rule and criteria (and we know how that worked for him before) .
And secondly the only reason the sharks won the premiership under him is because they were all drug cheats. And if you disagree go look up the stat decs they signed when accepting the 8 week suspension they took. He had them juiced up for 2 year which helped build their stamina and strength and by the time they were off the stuff they already had the base built (like a good ore season) to build off. Is it any surprise the best stats those players every put together were the years following the end of their drug regime?
I think we should be going after him for 2022 (and if for whatever reason his ban was . I don't think the second part is true. I just had a quick google and the peptides case was between 2011-12 (if I'm wrong please correct me). They won the Grand Final in 2016... I think the thing you're looking for is Sharks being over the salary cap but they also were found to not be over (otherwise they would of had their title stripped).
 

James zac

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2018, 2019 not disruptive seasons. We started winning games after our seasons were all but finished. We need to win games at the start of a season to be anywhere near a top 8 side.
20 is not normal can't pass judgement on just two games
 

shaun5150

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Bulldogs fan here: pay was given a train wreck...... he has done well and set up the club in the direction we want. He should be proud of his efforts and has done a good job with what he had. I still think he needs 1 more year before we see something good. To all the donkeys who say crap on here is evident you don’t know much. I can’t fight you all because I’ll get banned again, I am glad you all have no say in club is run or we would have Ray Dibs everywhere .... farken hell!
No instead we have no major sponsor, as well as losing sponsors by the minute. No future plan. No decent coach. A board which is poorly run by an out of touch bunch of clowns where bankruptcy follows. Case in point Andersons. Fact of the matter is we are fucked and right now i'd love to have Dib back, and i'd take Griffin or even freaking Toovey at this point. Anyone but Deputy Dog
 

Bazildog

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If the club extends him for 1 year fair enough but if they extend him for 2 that's a big strike against the board as far as I'm concerned. For what possible reason would we need to make it 2 years. There's no chance in the world any other club is thinking of poaching Pay on his record so far.
I really want to support the idea of Bulldog people in charge.. But I think given the current virus crap he ONLY should be given till end of 21 with set KPI's. the absolute minimum should be top 8 and finals.

The only stat that matters to me is that every coach we had since 1980 made or won a GF except for KMoore who came pretty close.
Yeah.. this stat pisses me off because it reminds me of the attitude and swagger we once had of always being a threat. Unless Deano pulls a rabbit out of his arse I think he will struggle to make a GF unless 21 is a huge success and we make it deep into the finals.

20 is not normal can't pass judgement on just two games
I would normally agree, but we were hopeless against the Cowboys and our benchmark defence and commitment was nowhere to be seen.

If no pay right now then who can be our head coach as of right now, we can’t have flank so who should coach us then
Not Flanagan, not ever.. Until he went to Soufs I would have said Bennett as I know he has a soft spot for our club but I think his time is passing with his age. Bellamy I think would only go somewhere he could turn into a premiership within 2-3 years. Who ever it is, we dont need another re-invent the club type like Hasler or Mag. I would rather we bring someone in like a Joey Johns or JT as an assistant coach or co- coach if Pay survives specifically as offence coach and have Pay concentrate on defence and maybe Opes to oversee it as Football manager or similar.

Starting from scratch is not the answer, unless you want to here "we are in the rebuilding phase" crap again for another 3-5 years....
 

B-Train

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I'm not saying it's good but when I look at the team we're putting out it isn't good enough to compete with anyone bar the Warriors and Titans (that's why we've overachieved). Next year is a different ball game so if it's much the same in 2021 then I'm all for bashing Pay. The first reason Pay is coaching us is that he was the best person we could get due to the position our club was in regarding our salary cap... I wonder why that is!

I honestly believe if we add three to four more signings to go with Luke Thompson we'll be a top eight team (that's with Pay as coach) or that'll be the expectation at least. Now if you want us to be a title contender (winning the premiership/Grand Final) I think you're going to be waiting until at least 2024.

We have potentially the worst spine in the competition (without Foran - who still isn't enough himself against top teams) and you think we're going to score points when we're lacking in the backs too? We don't have dynamic props either (Tolman offers literally zero in the final third). Where are points coming from? I think that's the main reason our attack sucks...
Who's talking about a title contender? I'm talking about having a team that averages more than 14 points a game and finishes higher than 12th. Pay has had three years to recruit and coach his team up so I can't see how anyone can suggest that Pay hasn't been given a fair opportunity yet or that the "jury is still out"..

How much more evidence does a jury need to make a decision? Have you even watched how bad we look in attack for two plus seasons? Some of you want to make Pay a 5 year coach when he has a 33% win percentage and our team averages 15 ppg during his two plus years in charge.

We had the worst attack in the comp last year, and a F/A of -155 (despite our "lofty" and "overachieving" position of 12th) and you're preaching patience and still making excuses for him?
 

speedy2460

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Everybody seems to have a different slant on the reasons for the lack of on field success. Some blame Hasler, Castle and Dib.
Some blame the Board. Some blame the players, and some blame the coach. Put simply, it's a case of all of the above.
To correct the mess of past incumbents will take time. It will happen.
Accept the fact that the currant roster is basically below standard. It is that way because of lack of available funds.
2021 apparently will be different with funding more available. Money attracts players. We will get them.
 

Riggs80

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Pay is currently a rebuild coach, just like Brown was. He'll be given a chance with our "competitive" roster for 2021 and if he fails miserably will be given the flick, just like Brown was at the Knights. If a top coach did become available and it makes sense for us moving forward we should be ruthless regardless and go for them.
I think you are being nice that he is a rebuild coach , have not seen any evidence of a rebuild under him. where are the exciting you players , where has the squad improved. The only thing he has achieved was good defence at the END of each season that inflates the club performances as sides have taken them lightly .
 

bradyk

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Who's talking about a title contender? I'm talking about having a team that averages more than 14 points a game and finishes higher than 12th. Pay has had three years to recruit and coach his team up so I can't see how anyone can suggest that Pay hasn't been given a fair opportunity yet or that the "jury is still out"..

How much more evidence does a jury need to make a decision? Have you even watched how bad we look in attack for two plus seasons? Some of you want to make Pay a 5 year coach when he has a 33% win percentage and our team averages 15 ppg during his two plus years in charge.

We had the worst attack in the comp last year, and a F/A of -155 (despite our "lofty" and "overachieving" position of 12th) and you're preaching patience and still making excuses for him?
Why not read everything I wrote instead of what you can use to move the goal posts?

I'm not saying it's good but when I look at the team we're putting out it isn't good enough to compete with anyone bar the Warriors and Titans (that's why we've overachieved).

We have potentially the worst spine in the competition (without Foran - who still isn't enough himself against top teams) and you think we're going to score points when we're lacking in the backs too? We don't have dynamic props either (Tolman offers literally zero in the final third). Where are points coming from? I think that's the main reason our attack sucks...

You're just so out of touch with what we have compared to other teams and why and your expectations aren't realistic. Stop using the ladder because we overachieved where we finished...

Also I never said we have to keep Pay. What I'm saying is he's done a terrific job considering everything (only people who think otherwise are off with the fairies). If a top coach is available we should be ruthless regardless and go for him but I don't see this happening until at least 2022.
 
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B-Train

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Why not read everything I wrote instead of what you can use to move the goal posts?

I'm not saying it's good but when I look at the team we're putting out it isn't good enough to compete with anyone bar the Warriors and Titans (that's why we've overachieved).

We have potentially the worst spine in the competition (without Foran - who still isn't enough himself against top teams) and you think we're going to score points when we're lacking in the backs too? We don't have dynamic props either (Tolman offers literally zero in the final third). Where are points coming from? I think that's the main reason our attack sucks...

You're just so out of touch with what we have compared to other teams and why and your expectations aren't realistic. Stop using the ladder because we overachieved where we finished...

Also I never said we have to keep Pay. What I'm saying is he's done a terrific job considering everything (only people who think otherwise are off with the fairies). If a top coach is available we should be ruthless regardless and go for him but I don't see this happening until at least 2022.
Good coaches do more with less.. Our team isn't great but not shocking in terms of talent compared to other teams. To suggest we can't do better is ignorant and a defeatist attitude.

Most other clubs would love to have players like CHN (before the saga), Reimis, Hopoate, DWZ, Renouf, Ogden, RFM, Foran and even stalwarts like Jackson, Tolman with others like Wakeham on their roster and would manage to utilise them better than Pay has.

Our spine still had two Internationals last season in DWZ and Foran. Other teams don't have amazing spines either and also have holes all throughout their roster.

You admit Tolman is average, then why does Pay play him 60 minutes a game and let him touch the ball three times a set when we have exciting and far more dynamic young forwards like To'omaga, Ogden and RFM etc?

Why does Pay play JMK 80 minutes each week when he shouldn't even be a bench player and why has he failed to sign another full time hooker in three seasons as coach?

You make it seem like Pay has nothing to answer for, has zero control over the team and should never be held responsible.
 

Bad Billy

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Coronavirus or not, to re-sign a coach for two more years who has a win percentage south of 35% and has been responsible for the worst attack in the comp during two plus seasons would be a preposterous decision that would only set the club back further.

Surely our management aren't that blind or soft and would finally pull the trigger on a replacement. Who that replacement would be, I don't know.. But things can't get much worse and Pay has proven he isn't a head coach as he has zero tactical nous or gameplan. He's a defensive assistant at best.
Win percentage, means absolutely nothing unless you’ve got a team that can win.
 

bradyk

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Good coaches do more with less.. Our team isn't great but not shocking in terms of talent compared to other teams. To suggest we can't do better is ignorant and a defeatist attitude.

Most other clubs would love to have players like CHN (before the saga), Reimis, Hopoate, DWZ, Renouf, Ogden, RFM, Foran and even stalwarts like Jackson, Tolman with others like Wakeham on their roster and would manage to utilise them better than Pay has.

Our spine still had two Internationals last season in DWZ and Foran. Other teams don't have amazing spines either and also have holes all throughout their roster.

You admit Tolman is average, then why does Pay play him 60 minutes a game and let him touch the ball three times a set when we have exciting and far more dynamic young forwards like To'omaga, Ogden and RFM etc?

Why does Pay play JMK 80 minutes each week when he shouldn't even be a bench player and why has he failed to sign another full time hooker in three seasons as coach?

You make it seem like Pay has nothing to answer for, has zero control over the team and should never be held responsible.
I don't think any coach could do anything you'd expect with the roster we have. I can't disagree with if we had Bellamy as our coach we would do better, but I don't think it's as drastic as you think (and we're with Pay for a reason... he's a rebuild coach because no one else would touch us due to our salary cap position/team). Our team is shocking in terms of talent compared to other teams. We're a bottom four side on paper with little to no X-Factor.

Almost every player you've listed isn't top eight or 16 in their position which means compared to the rest of the NRL they're average or below average. Ogden can't even make our side (which is shocking) and Wakeham has basically played two NRL games - inexperienced half. DWZ isn't even a top eight fullback and if he is he just scrapes in.

Our spine has a winger playing fullback who can't ball play - offers zero points. Foran who has been injured 1/3 of the time (or is it closer to 1/2 - can't be f'd researching that again). Wakeham (or whoever else we've tried) who's inexperienced or not good enough. JMK who's a five-eighth (?) playing hooker. One of the worst starting hooker's in the competition. We have one of the worst spines in the competition no contest.

Tolman is finished and offers nothing in attack but that has been the case forever (the second part - before Pay). I think the reason he's getting the ball in the final third (where he offers nothing) is because of our inexperienced halves (or hooker, especially) talking the weak option. In other teams with dynamic prop's it's viable but not with Tolman. I can't really defend why Tolman gets a lot of minutes besides he's experienced and has leadership qualities. I agree with you in regards to Tolman tho and I'd be giving him more closer to 30 minutes and the only reason why I wouldn't drop him is he's been with us forever and I think it's fair to give him this last season.

JMK isn't a good starting hooker. I think he'd be most useful off the bench. The problem is the other hookers we have at the club are Katoa (was third string at Panthers before they signed Koroisau - who at the time had major hooker issues too) and Holland (who isn't a hooker). We've tried to sign at least five hookers. Not getting them isn't Pay's fault and instead the board/recruitment team not offering them enough money and/or a guaranteed starting position - as we had competition from other clubs. Pay openly came out and said he wanted to strengthen in hooker slightly before the Koroisau links. I would run Katoa regardless on the bench personally but the game has developed into hookers playing 80 minutes.

Despite everything Pay still has the team playing for him. It's evident that's the case. They haven't given up playing for him even in the toughest times. He has done everything expected of him if not more. I'm not saying he's perfect and there has definitely been things he's done/doing that I don't agree with but overall he's done his job.
 
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B-Train

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Win percentage, means absolutely nothing unless you’ve got a team that can win.
If that doesn't bother you, then does scoring 13 points a game last season? Or 15 ppg over Pay's two seasons?
 

bradyk

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If that doesn't bother you, then does scoring 13 points a game last season? Or 15 ppg over Pay's two seasons?
There are other things that bother me. The main thing being why we have a low win % in the first place which is because we don't have a competitive roster that's bottom four on paper.
 

D- voice

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Who's talking about a title contender? I'm talking about having a team that averages more than 14 points a game and finishes higher than 12th. Pay has had three years to recruit and coach his team up so I can't see how anyone can suggest that Pay hasn't been given a fair opportunity yet or that the "jury is still out"..

How much more evidence does a jury need to make a decision? Have you even watched how bad we look in attack for two plus seasons? Some of you want to make Pay a 5 year coach when he has a 33% win percentage and our team averages 15 ppg during his two plus years in charge.

We had the worst attack in the comp last year, and a F/A of -155 (despite our "lofty" and "overachieving" position of 12th) and you're preaching patience and still making excuses for him?
As a Canterbury supporter I used to boast...
No mater how bad the politics is in rugby league, or how shocking the referees are, we are blessed to be following such a great club and entertaining team...I wish I could still say the same now !!!
As a whole our club is infested by politics and deceit.
So much so our motto... Club 1st Team 2nd Individual 3rd is a joke !!!
NOW it's...Individual 1st, Individual 2nd Individual 3rd and The club isn't even in the EQUATION.
And certain SO CALLED SUPPORTERS all they are interested in is finding excuses for failures of their FAVORED INDIVIDUALS .
 
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