Does Pay need to be supporting with training?

[Tassie Devil]

I think its a bit of an over reaction to be thinking anything other then, "lets see how the next few weeks/months go". Its only 2 games, and theres a ehole lot of shit going on in the world right now that could have an effect on players. Empty stadiums, social distancing, people dying, the threat of the NRL being cancelled at any moment and salaries being sacrifices because of it. I mean we as a race are facing something thay most of us have never experienced in our lives. So anyone thinking business as usual, sack pay, is kidding themselves.

Have to say I agree. Pay does need to get some results. He really does. We all know this.

The side he picks for this 3rd game will tell us a lot. He waited last year for changes to be forced through injury, would be nice seeing him on the front foot more this year. Starting with Lewis, and I'd say switching DWZ and Remis to their true positions also ...

 

[flamebouyant]

A mistake that never should've been made. Can you seriously believe that making Lewis the dominant half and on the ball almost as many times as a peak JT is anywhere near a logical decision? Like i said in another comment what if he starts him again next round?

Either way it feels like another wasted preseason with Pay selecting players where he wanted them and the realising it's not working and then spending the bulk of the year shuffling players around again...I'm just over it.

Round 2. Take a deep breath, and consider everything else thats going on.

 

[Chris Harding]

After 50 games, the coach should have put his stamp on the team. Despite their lack of experience, a team playing style should have emerged by now.

If this is it, we have no prospect of giving the fans anything to get excited about this year - apart from trying to achieve fewer points conceded for each loss.

 

[CrittaMagic69]

Round 2. Take a deep breath, and consider everything else thats going on.

It's not round 2? More like round 50 odd or whatever we're up to..

 

[flamebouyant]

I do think DWZ needs to move to the centres or wing,and that in turn means Reimis needs to go back to his wing. The team needs a lot more spark, so Averilo should play fb.

 

[CrittaMagic69]

Tactically on the defensive side we were spot on that first game. No? Considering the opponents? Mentally we were spot on also, wouldn't you say? Overall for that game I'd say we were pretty well prepared defensively. Of course, in attack it was a different story but lets not forget we had two young halves playing, had lost our winger and ball playing forward a few days before. Honestly think for that game we were alright.

Second game is obviously different but ... we did score more points which is what everyone was asking for?

Don't get me wrong though. I'm worried about the team and what we're going to do but there are some positives there.

We limited Parra to one 1 try, but imo Parra were no where near their best and that wasn't because we defended outstandingly well. Yes you can say we defended what was about Infront of us...but we're hardly in the position to look at things this way.

I have said before that Pay is far more suited to being a rep coach than NRL. You get the pick of the players with no cap restrictions, no daily NRL grind and you just need to get the players up and on the same page..the better and more experienced players take control of side

 

[Tassie Devil]

After 50 games, the coach should have put his stamp on the team. Despite their lack of experience, a team playing style should have emerged by now.

If this is it, we have no prospect of giving the fans anything to get excited about this year - apart from trying to achieve fewer points conceded for each loss.

Agree with what you're saying, and also expect to see more. Any manager in a company after being there for so long should be getting results, and at the very least showing some type of structure and clear vision for that area he's working in. It shouldn't be different at a football club.

On the other side we do need to take into account that this isn't your ordinary coaching position in the amount of shit he's had to deal with. From shipping off your star players. Losing your star organiser and best player for long periods of time. Issues with the salary cap. Problems off the field. It really has been difficult for him to get a steady run at it.

No excuses. I do expect more. But there are mitigating factors we need to take into consideration I think.

 

[Tassie Devil]

We limited Parra to one 1 try, but imo Parra were no where near their best and that wasn't because we defended outstandingly well. Yes you can say we defended what was about Infront of us...but we're hardly in the position to look at things this way.

I have said before that Pay is far more suited to being a rep coach than NRL. You get the pick of the players with no cap restrictions, no daily NRL grind and you just need to get the players up and on the same page..the better and more experienced players take control of side

You said we didn't look like we trained for anything, and were tactically inept. I disagree with that opening game when it came to defence. Attack I agree completely. But let's not forget that Pay constantly said that we'd be focusing on defence first so it's only natural that we started off better there?

 

[Shire Dog]

I’m not too sure about Dean’s coaching ability or future to be honest,
But in all fairness some of the most basic skills needed to play first grade are not being executed by our players which lead to unnecessary mistakes then pressure
As a result copping points against us
Dropping uncontested bombs
Not passing the ball to the chest or at least close to
Kicking a ball in general play with some kind of result or thought
We don’t have superstars for obvious reasons but I do not expect to see school boy errors when watching our top team play.

 

[KiwiDog7]

Doesnt hooking Lewis prove he can also accept his mistakes?

Starting him next week will offset that unfortunately

 

[KiwiDog7]

Don’t sack Pay


Just lapse his contract at seasons end

 

[The_Chimpster]

He clearly struggles with rotation tactics, set play execution, playing to player's strengths and identifying weakness in the opposition

Pretty much anything involving attack

 

[Tassie Devil]

He clearly struggles with rotation tactics, set play execution, playing to player's strengths and identifying weakness in the opposition

Pretty much anything involving attack

So how do we fix it? He's not going to be sacked. So who can we get in to help him?

 

[The_Chimpster]

So how do we fix it? He's not going to be sacked. So who can we get in to help him?

We showed signs of attacking flair in stages last year when the playbook was thrown out the window, and we had nothing to play for.
So why don't the players start early, just play what is in front of them on field and ignore any attacking directive from the coach?

Even if it runs pay the wrong way, it wouldn't make much sense to drop a player from a winning team

 

[Tassie Devil]

We showed signs of attacking flair in stages last year when the playbook was thrown out the window, and we had nothing to play for.
So why don't the players start early, just play what is in front of them on field and ignore any attacking directive from the coach?

Even if it runs pay the wrong way, it wouldn't make much sense to drop a player from a winning team

Were we playing well in those latter stages of the season because Foran was there? Do you think having two pretty inexperienced halves in the team playing for the first time together is having an impact on our attacking play? Imagine being young they probably need more structure to feel confident as they're yet to develop that maturity to be able to deal with fucking up a play and getting over it quickly. Perhaps that's why?

 

[Novdoggie]

The players we have are not to the stamdard that can play and stick to a game plan for 80 minutes. We don't have halves that can control a game or forwards that can dominate, period.

So how do we stay competitive and win games? Move the ball around and play adlib footy. We have proven in the past this works with this type of team.

Just because it's the beginning of the season doesn't mean you have to start with structure and be like every other team. We need to be different and play to our strengths not competing with the strengths of other teams that we can not match with.

 

[The_Chimpster]

Were we playing well in those latter stages of the season because Foran was there? Do you think having two pretty inexperienced halves in the team playing for the first time together is having an impact on our attacking play? Imagine being young they probably need more structure to feel confident as they're yet to develop that maturity to be able to deal with fucking up a play and getting over it quickly. Perhaps that's why?

Foran was still injured. Cogger and Lewis were the halves.

Absolutely having a guy who's played what like five nrl games and lewis are going to struggle to develop a combination, these players train together all week so would have a general understanding of each other's strengths. Seeing pay can't develop anyone's offence, ad lib and off the cuff football is the way to go with this side imo

 

[GrogDog]

I suspect the damage that Oka and CHN caused has been underestimated to an extent. You would have to be part of the group to truly know but I imagine that year after year of bad news, scandals, sub par players, coaching etc had us so down that this years incident just knocked any wind out of the sails.

We finished really strong last year, took that into the off-season and by all accounts our boys trained hard and the feeling felt good & positive just days out of 2020 season start. The team would have known they weren't fancied but every report had the club united and optimistic. Then the school girl thing happened and I really think that just knocked all momentum for a 6.

Obviously there are many other issue like still needing a winger, centre, half, hooker & some proper attack coaching but I think the incident smashed us.

 

[speedy2460]

The side he picks for this 3rd game will tell us a lot.

Probably right. But just who do you pick? The reggies players are just not first grade ready.
They would not be an improvement on what we are playing.
Only change I would make is to replace Wakeham with Averillo.

 

[Tassie Devil]

Foran was still injured. Cogger and Lewis were the halves.

Absolutely having a guy who's played what like five nrl games and lewis are going to struggle to develop a combination, these players train together all week so would have a general understanding of each other's strengths. Seeing pay can't develop anyone's offence, ad lib and off the cuff football is the way to go with this side imo

Actually. Of those last 10 where we won 8 games, Foran played in 5 of them. A mixture of Wakeham, Cogger, and Lewis played together for the other 5.

The question is ... did we play better with Foran in the side? Playing ad-lib may the way forward? I certainly don't pretend to know. However, I would question the effect it'd have on the discipline and attitude when looking at the defensive side of things.