News.com article saying Okunbor facing being sacked. CHN facing 8-12wk suspension.

[Moedogg]

I find it a bit hypocritical that former players can sit on a panel and pass judgement on current player for their behavior. Im sure they got up to worse shit than Okunbor and CHN but fortunate that it was before the days of social media.

 

[Tassie Devil]

I've highlighted what you have written and you claim I'm repeating fallacies.

. Below is what you have just written

'I've made it very clear that guidelines pertaining to working with children have potentially been breached and under various pieces of legislation there are grounds for further action'.

How is that not slanderous?

You have no credabilty with the hypocracy you're displaying

Certainly clutching at straws there mate. Sorry.

Clearly he's correct though as based on what we've been told Okunbor has potentially breached guidelines for working with children. If it's proven that he has breached these guidelines then there would potentially be grounds for further action. It all depends on the facts though.

Your slanderous calls are a little pathetic though mate. Just drop this ridiculous statement and let's debate the real topic here.

At the present time based on the limited infor we've received from the club, and the screen shots etc. the media have produced there seems to be some basis to these claims. I've been following @DinkumDog 's views on this matter from the very start, and at no point do I recall him saying that they've done anything illegal. If anything, that would've been me saying that however clearly I was wrong ... to a point.

You've got every right to feel that Okunbor is innocent until proven guilty, however in this case the current evidence in my mind clearly shows the wrongs were commited. By all means focus on the fact that they weren't 'illegal' hence why the police never pressed charges, but from my side that doesn't mean anything. Either the club and NRL find him 100% liable and responsible for his actions i.e. he received all the appropriate training, notification, support etc. to make the right decision, or he fights the case and it's proven that the club & NRL didn't properly perform their duties.

If it's the former then he's obviously gone. If it's the latter then the club and NRL's in shit.

 

[Tassie Devil]

Steve you're much closer to the mark that our protagonist here - but be careful or you'll be accused of 'slander' .
More seriously - it's important to define what are 'laws' and 'guidelines'.
And yes, obviously only Australian definitions can be applied here, even if they have similarities to other parts of the world.
However, 'guidelines' (particularly where breaches occur) can then be pursued via specific acts of legislation.
Now, I'm not saying this is the case (never have) so hence have never 'accused them of committing a crime' as our protagonist likes to keep repeating.
As it was published from day one - neither of the girls or their parents have made a complaint. The police do not consider it a criminal matter. No charges have been laid.
Where our protagonist is wrong (apart from accusing me of saying they've committed a crime and of accusing me of slander, which in and of itself is wrong) - is that this is a workplace issue where breaches of guidelines may be used, even partially, to determine their fate in terms of dismissal or not.
And yes, assuming that they were made aware of their obligations prior.
Pretty simple really, yet our protagonist has decided to turn it into something it is not and keep repeating the same things over and over.

Yes. Does seem pretty straight forward what you're saying. Don't really understand the great debate if I'm honest as I think reading between the lines he agrees with you ... mostly

 

[Natboy]

I find it a bit hypocritical that former players can sit on a panel and pass judgement on current player for their behavior. Im sure they got up to worse shit than Okunbor and CHN but fortunate that it was before the days of social media.

They sure did! I know they are paid for their opinions and want to protect their image but it would be good to see some more come out and without providing specifics be a bit more honest

 

[Bazildog]

This is like a boomerang of shit this thread.. What the fuck are we doing as supporters looking for precedents that are or "supposedly" are worse than the infractions caused by these 2 players. They are employee's on big coin working for a brand that has history of media disasters (regardless of whether the media targeted them or not) including stuff like Mad Monday, Coffs and the salary cap scandal.

Reminding people of scummy acts from Hayne, Lodge, Barba, and Bird etc does not excuse or lessen what these 2 dickheads have done to their family's, team mates, supporters or club. Enough of the story is already out there including screen shots and video to justify the anger and reaction by the club and although they are only young men they are old enough to know the responsibility they have.

If you in your normal salary job (not Footballer money) do something that is clearly against company policy and in your work contract or agreement you know that you will most likely get the sack.

I feel for both as young men the publicity and social media crap they are facing but they are not school boys.., they are grown men that made a choice and clearly the wrong one.

 

[Superuber]

Certainly clutching at straws there mate. Sorry.

Clearly he's correct though as based on what we've been told Okunbor has potentially breached guidelines for working with children. If it's proven that he has breached these guidelines then there would potentially be grounds for further action. It all depends on the facts though.

Your slanderous calls are a little pathetic though mate. Just drop this ridiculous statement and let's debate the real topic here.

At the present time based on the limited infor we've received from the club, and the screen shots etc. the media have produced there seems to be some basis to these claims. I've been following @DinkumDog 's views on this matter from the very start, and at no point do I recall him saying that they've done anything illegal. If anything, that would've been me saying that however clearly I was wrong ... to a point.

You've got every right to feel that Okunbor is innocent until proven guilty, however in this case the current evidence in my mind clearly shows the wrongs were commited. By all means focus on the fact that they weren't 'illegal' hence why the police never pressed charges, but from my side that doesn't mean anything. Either the club and NRL find him 100% liable and responsible for his actions i.e. he received all the appropriate training, notification, support etc. to make the right decision, or he fights the case and it's proven that the club & NRL didn't properly perform their duties.

If it's the former then he's obviously gone. If it's the latter then the club and NRL's in shit.

I'm sorry but the guidelines breached pertain to bringing a female no matter the age back to the room, the fact that she also attended the school that the club just visited makes it that little bit more distasteful.
This is not clutching at straws it's what has happened and it's fact. The fact that anyone is claiming the disciplinary action taken is due to violations to working with children is slanderous.

 

[TwinTurbo]

My view hasn’t changed much since day 1, if the penalty doesn’t fit the crime then they will have good grounds on which to appeal. If the penalty is grossly out of line with the precedents then then have even more grounds to appeal.

Asking for an extension is a smart move, gives more time for the heat to die down.

Go Dogs

 

[wendog33]

Can't believe I agree with one of your posts!

My view hasn’t changed much since day 1, if the penalty doesn’t fit the crime then they will have good grounds on which to appeal. If the penalty is grossly out of line with the precedents then then have even more grounds to appeal.

Asking for an extension is a smart move, gives more time for the heat to die down.

Go Dogs

 

[wendog33]

No Wendog that’s not correct because no-one is being accused of breaking any laws but unfortunately some got their knickers in a twist over allegations which were never made.

I do agree with awaiting the outcome and have withdrawn from the conversation - in particular because some posters can’t refrain from turning it personal. Cheers.

Glad you've stopped posting Dinkum. You're only getting more and more defensive. Fancy telling me I'm not correct

 

[DinkumDog]

Glad you've stopped posting Dinkum. You're only getting more and more defensive. Fancy telling me I'm not correct

It’s normal to get defensive when you get falsely accused of things Wendog, but clearly the other poster is highly emotive about the issue and hence why stepping away is best.

Now come on Wendog, are you still dirty on me for the bleater video?? .

 

[wendog33]

It’s normal to get defensive when you get falsely accused of things Wendog, but clearly the other poster is highly emotive about the issue and hence why stepping away is best.

Now come on Wendog, are you still dirty on me for the bleater video?? .

Is it my fault my 5 minutes of fame was so inauspicious lol.

My comment was just agreeing with the general sentiment "the other poster" was putting forward. We all need to stop hypothesising the "crime"/"misdemeanour" when we don't know the full facts.

Yeah sure have an opinion and express it, but we can't be bringing up "guidelines pertaining to working with children have potentially been breached and under various pieces of legislation there are grounds for further action'.

That seems unfair.

Whilst plenty have said what if it was your daughter groomed at school etc

Well

Whatabout if it was your son in this situation. Made a hideous mistake. Probably without thinking it through. Somehow thought it was worth the risk of sneaking a female back to his room against club rules. Thought that was the only harm they'd put themselves under. Too dumb or wilful to think of team mates, their future livlihoods, family and their coach and club.

Faced 2 weeks of public humiliation with fans, sponsors, media, baying for blood.

I'm just saying lets abide with what the club decides and pray that the NRLol aren't too hypocritical.

We all know the Murdoch press and tv will only be happy if they are both sacked, their club and families shamed, and then they can move to hunting down the girls for a further titiilating update ala A Current Affair.

Certainly not dismissing in any way the harm they've done to so many people and businesses, fans and family. I'm sick of the constant crap our club just can't seem to escape from.

Will trust in the process that our club will care for these dropkicks and their families, be the better, more admirable party and come out of this even stronger.

 

[DinkumDog]

Is it my fault my 5 minutes of fame was so inauspicious lol.

My comment was just agreeing with the general sentiment "the other poster" was putting forward. We all need to stop hypothesising the "crime"/"misdemeanour" when we don't know the full facts.

Yeah sure have an opinion and express it, but we can't be bringing up "guidelines pertaining to working with children have potentially been breached and under various pieces of legislation there are grounds for further action'.

That seems unfair.

Whilst plenty have said what if it was your daughter groomed at school etc

Well

Whatabout if it was your son in this situation. Made a hideous mistake. Probably without thinking it through. Somehow thought it was worth the risk of sneaking a female back to his room against club rules. Thought that was the only harm they'd put themselves under. Too dumb or wilful to think of team mates, their future livlihoods, family and their coach and club.

Faced 2 weeks of public humiliation with fans, sponsors, media, baying for blood.

I'm just saying lets abide with what the club decides and pray that the NRLol aren't too hypocritical.

We all know the Murdoch press and tv will only be happy if they are both sacked, their club and families shamed, and then they can move to hunting down the girls for a further titiilating update ala A Current Affair.

Certainly not dismissing in any way the harm they've done to so many people and businesses, fans and family. I'm sick of the constant crap our club just can't seem to escape from.

Will trust in the process that our club will care for these dropkicks and their families, be the better, more admirable party and come out of this even stronger.

But that's precisely it Wendog - I never hypothesised any 'crime' and I certainly didn't accuse them of a crime.

The other poster in their emotional state kept trying to pin that on me and of course I'm not going to wear it, because it's not true. Slovenia Steve confirmed as such.

Then the posts just got ridiculous with accusations of 'slander' and other nonsense.

So - it's best to walk away and hence I'm saying nothing further about the case itself until it's over.

As for the rest of it - The Murdoch press is such a massive machine it's hard to block out totally, but I make an effort to, especially the tabloid garbage. Unfortunately those that feed them keep the machine running.

What if it were my son? Well, we all need to learn from our mistakes and sometimes those lessons are hard.

No-one has called for them to be hung, drawn and quartered and should they find themselves unemployed at the end of this process then their lives will go on a different path.

We've all had to face times in life where things didn't turn out as expected or hoped or something backfired as the result of a poor decision. There are consequences.

I'd really prefer not to say any more and focus on other topics on the forum. Cheers.

 

[Superuber]

But that's precisely it Wendog - I never hypothesised any 'crime' and I certainly didn't accuse them of a crime.
The other poster in their emotional state kept trying to pin that on me and of course I'm not going to wear it, because it's not true. Even Slovenia Steve confirmed as such.
Then the posts just got ridiculous with accusations of 'slander' and other nonsense.
So - it's best to walk away and hence I'm saying nothing further about the case itself until it's over.

As for the rest of it - The Murdoch press is such a massive machine it's hard to block out totally, but I make an effort to, especially the tabloid garbage. Unfortunately those that feed them keep the machine running.
What if it were my son? Well, we all need to learn from our mistakes and sometimes those lessons are hard.
No-one has called for them to be hung, drawn and quartered and should they find themselves unemployed at the end of this process then their lives will go on a different path.
We've all had to face times in life where things didn't turn out as expected or hoped or something backfired as the result of a poor decision. There are consequences.
I'd really prefer not to say any more and focus on other topics on the forum. Cheers.

Do you understand that Wendog has agreed with my sentiment and highlighted the point of you that it's wrong to accuse him of an infraction to do with working with children. You agree with what is being said and then claim that you are getting defensive due to the accusations.

Your claim that thier punishment has anything to do with working with children cannot be anywhere but a crime even if you state that is being dealt with as a workplace matter.

I'm not taking any of your attacks on me to heart as it's clearly being done as a subconscious defence of your conduct

 

[Horse]

Do you understand that Wendog has agreed with my sentiment and highlighted the point of you that it's wrong to accuse him of an infraction to do with working with children. You agree with what is being said and then claim that you are getting defensive due to the accusations.

Your claim that thier punishment has anything to do with working with children cannot be anywhere but a crime even if you state that is being dealt with as a workplace matter.

I'm not taking any of your attacks on me to heart as it's clearly being done as a subconscious defence of your conduct

If Wendog takes your side in an argument, then that’s your official cue to tap out mate.

 

[Superuber]

If Wendog takes your side in an argument, then that’s your official cue to tap out mate.

Its been a fun ride to see him behave like his username after being hit by his owner and running away with his tail between his legs. I find it really amusing how whilst drowning he is reaching out for his friends like you to support him and he thinks by typing away with what he thinks is intelligent replies that he is better than me.
He is just a very sad human that can attack others for thier behaviour but is unwilling to accept when someone points out his faults.

All I'm asking of him and others is to stop referencing the working with children as the reason JO and CHN is being disciplined, it's not hard to understand that.
Child abuse of any kind especialy if it includes a sexual component is abhorrent but this is not the case. Lets just leave the lynch mob at bay for the real crimes committed.

 

[2ndphase]

The two boys have asked for an extension.
So they have another week until next Tuesday to front the Nrl.

 

[Bazildog]

Its been a fun ride to see him behave like his username after being hit by his owner and running away with his tail between his legs. I find it really amusing how whilst drowning he is reaching out for his friends like you to support him and he thinks by typing away with what he thinks is intelligent replies that he is better than me.
He is just a very sad human that can attack others for thier behaviour but is unwilling to accept when someone points out his faults.

All I'm asking of him and others is to stop referencing the working with children as the reason JO and CHN is being disciplined, it's not hard to understand that.
Child abuse of any kind especialy if it includes a sexual component is abhorrent but this is not the case. Lets just leave the lynch mob at bay for the real crimes committed.

I dont know where you have suddenly popped up from mate but you are drawing a long bow on plenty..From reading thru all the posts he (DD) has never implied or suggested he is better or smarter than you but you certainly haven't helped your own argument with your derogatory comments. You can fluff over this all you like but I suggest you go and look at the screen shots again and the video that is on line.

They are not pedophiles nor are they rapist as there has been no suggestion by anyone of no consensual or illegal sex, pull your fucking head in. As usual on here it ends up being a personal attack and depending on the mods view point as to where it goes with posts and warnings etc. You can spend all your time defending their actions but here's some facts for you champ;

1. Did the Bulldogs representing our club and the NRL visit a school where at least one of the girls involved was present?
2. Did 2 girls under the age of 18 hook up with 2 Bulldog players either in a toilet at a club or back at the team hotel?
3. Is there video and screen shots of some pretty damning evidence?
4. Have we lost a $2 million sponsor?
5. Are we the same club and supporters that have been under the microscope because of Coffs, Salary Cap, and Mad Monday amongst other things?
6. Have these two players signed a contract with their employer which they knew they would be in breach of before their actions and choices?

If you want to underestimate the significance of what these players have done thats up to you, but its not the facts relative to what is known and it doesn't give you the right to personally attack anyone that doesn't agree with you (or his mates that you point out). I am sure if you had 16 or 17 girls your opinion might be different but that is not what they are in trouble for, they have this shit on them because even though its not illegal it is dumb, naive, stupid, selfish, immature and against their employment contract and team policy..

 

[Superuber]

Don't just disagree, why are you unable to stand by you convictions and keep defending yourself. Oh it's because you can't and just act like a child crying in the corner when you feel wronged. Grow up, it's pathetic how you're getting comfort from reaching to friends for support.

 

[Superuber]

I dont know where you have suddenly popped up from mate but you are drawing a long bow on plenty..From reading thru all the posts he (DD) has never implied or suggested he is better or smarter than you but you certainly haven't helped your own argument with your derogatory comments. You can fluff over this all you like but I suggest you go and look at the screen shots again and the video that is on line.

They are not pedophiles nor are they rapist as there has been no suggestion by anyone of no consensual or illegal sex, pull your fucking head in. As usual on here it ends up being a personal attack and depending on the mods view point as to where it goes with posts and warnings etc. You can spend all your time defending their actions but here's some facts for you champ;

1. Did the Bulldogs representing our club and the NRL visit a school where at least one of the girls involved was present?
2. Did 2 girls under the age of 18 hook up with 2 Bulldog players either in a toilet at a club or back at the team hotel?
3. Is there video and screen shots of some pretty damning evidence?
4. Have we lost a $2 million sponsor?
5. Are we the same club and supporters that have been under the microscope because of Coffs, Salary Cap, and Mad Monday amongst other things?
6. Have these two players signed a contract with their employer which they knew they would be in breach of before their actions and choices?

If you want to underestimate the significance of what these players have done thats up to you, but its not the facts relative to what is known and it doesn't give you the right to personally attack anyone that doesn't agree with you (or his mates that you point out). I am sure if you had 16 or 17 girls your opinion might be different but that is not what they are in trouble for, they have this shit on them because even though its not illegal it is dumb, naive, stupid, selfish, immature and against their employment contract and team policy..

What are you on about mate, I'm not disputing thier actions being inappropriate or distasteful. I agree with them being punished however he has claimed that it's to do with working with children and it's clearly not. In one of his post He wanted to be informed how it couldn't be that reason. So basically he claimed that JO and CHN committed a crime then he changed to say its a workplace issue relating to that misconduct.
I returned fire after he started to ridicule my view as someone who is agitated and have an agenda amongst other insinuations.

I don't need to but I'll add that I'm a father of 3 girls with a 15yo in high school, so if you think that holds any significance to allow me to comment on this subject, which it doesn't.

 

[Superuber]

I dont know where you have suddenly popped up from mate but you are drawing a long bow on plenty..From reading thru all the posts he (DD) has never implied or suggested he is better or smarter than you but you certainly haven't helped your own argument with your derogatory comments. You can fluff over this all you like but I suggest you go and look at the screen shots again and the video that is on line.

They are not pedophiles nor are they rapist as there has been no suggestion by anyone of no consensual or illegal sex, pull your fucking head in. As usual on here it ends up being a personal attack and depending on the mods view point as to where it goes with posts and warnings etc. You can spend all your time defending their actions but here's some facts for you champ;

1. Did the Bulldogs representing our club and the NRL visit a school where at least one of the girls involved was present?
2. Did 2 girls under the age of 18 hook up with 2 Bulldog players either in a toilet at a club or back at the team hotel?
3. Is there video and screen shots of some pretty damning evidence?
4. Have we lost a $2 million sponsor?
5. Are we the same club and supporters that have been under the microscope because of Coffs, Salary Cap, and Mad Monday amongst other things?
6. Have these two players signed a contract with their employer which they knew they would be in breach of before their actions and choices?

If you want to underestimate the significance of what these players have done thats up to you, but its not the facts relative to what is known and it doesn't give you the right to personally attack anyone that doesn't agree with you (or his mates that you point out). I am sure if you had 16 or 17 girls your opinion might be different but that is not what they are in trouble for, they have this shit on them because even though its not illegal it is dumb, naive, stupid, selfish, immature and against their employment contract and team policy..

Plus is really important to the debate where I popped up from