News Bulldogs coach Dean Pay the man to help Canterbury recover from scandal

TwinTurbo

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There’s no point arguing semantics about ‘met’. If you have your arm around someone you’ve interacted with them.

In the example you gave I’m sure said photos were not taken at schools and irrespective you’re an adult and so are the players you had your photos taken with, so no Working with Children legislation issues.

In the case at hand, that legislation applies - it is taken very seriously and ignorance is not an excuse - unless the accused can provide clear evidence that they were not adequately trained/informed about their responsibilities before the interaction took place - which would the potentially open liability to another party - evidence we have not seen to this point.
Let’s agree to disagree on the definition of “met”. Working with children is an interesting question. Since they were there on a promotional visit, not supervising, controlling, managing, instructing or teaching I’m not sure that it meets the “working” test. More invited guest.

Surely if it did the school would be on the case, reporting to police and making a formal complaint. Doesn’t seem to have happened so far and they have had opportunity.

Go Dogs
 

DinkumDog

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Let’s agree to disagree on the definition of “met”. Working with children is an interesting question. Since they were there on a promotional visit, not supervising, controlling, managing, instructing or teaching I’m not sure that it meets the “working” test. More invited guest.

Surely if it did the school would be on the case, reporting to police and making a formal complaint. Doesn’t seem to have happened so far and they have had opportunity.

Go Dogs
No mate - if they’re on school property or at a school sanctioned event they are captured by the legislation. Now whether the legislation is 100% right or not - well that’s a different argument - but it is what it is today.

And no, the school is not on the hook because whilst there’s evidence of interaction at the school (photo) there’s no evidence that improper contact was started at the school or the function.

So by all means question the specifics of the legislation, but as it stands today, my educated view is that Okunbor (at least) is in violation and hence facing employment termination not on unreasonable grounds.
 

TwinTurbo

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No mate - if they’re on school property or at a school sanctioned event they are captured by the legislation. Now whether the legislation is 100% right or not - well that’s a different argument - but it is what it is today.

And no, the school is not on the hook because whilst there’s evidence of interaction at the school (photo) there’s no evidence that improper contact was started at the school or the function.

So by all means question the specifics of the legislation, but as it stands today, my educated view is that Okunbor (at least) is in violation and hence facing employment termination not on unreasonable grounds.
I guess we will find out in the next few days.

Go Dogs
 

wendog33

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Call me cynical but to me it repeats and repeats his pleading for our club to sink down even further and suffer loss.

Expecting our club to take the high moral ground over every other club, where they haven't, nor been asked to. For us to suffer and be derided and reminded and constantly written about as the club who had to have 2 players sacked because of schoolgirl sex.

In 2 weeks thats all we'll be spoken of.

There'll be no "good on Pay and the Canterbury Club - they took a stand against player behaviour and Souths, Storm, Broncs, Sharks havem't".

No there'll be no stories like that after 2 weeks.

It will all keep happening at every other club and Kent won't be crusading about them. We are just easy targets to get his one off sermon.

He just wants maximum damage done to us.

You should read it, not a bad read about the character of Pay and the club moving forward. As positive an article as we can expect at the moment.
 

Natboy

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With no front row and versing the likely premiers. Ash Taylor ruined the game for them in the first 10min.. After the half time talk they played well to get back in the game then just got outclassed.
I know mate but Pay isn’t allowed excuses so neither should Holbrook
 

Haddaway

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There’s a social media post where he asks if she was there today, plainly that’s evidence that he didn’t know until she confirmed. Obviously he didn’t “pick/chat her up” at school. The pictures are meaningless, players have 100’s of pictures taken everyday and wouldn’t remember most of them even being taken let alone who was in them.

Go Dogs
Yeah but she said yes. As in "yes I was at SCHOOL:. The dumb **** should have ended it then and there. If he was so built up with sexual tension after finding out he was talking to a school kid, go and bust a nut into the toilet LOL.

Sack the clown.

Go Dogs!!!
 

wendog33

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This is a true presentation of the situation.

The bs fluff writings of Kent are no where near as creditable.
Don’t know if this has been posted else where



NRL must find a 'crime' to fit punishment for Dogs duo

Malcolm Knox
Sports columnist
March 14, 2020 — 12.01am
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Rugby league’s twin pin-ups of the week, Corey Harawira-Naera and Jayden Okunbor, did nothing illegal in Port Macquarie. And yet they are guilty, certainly, of something. The NRL’s job is to find an appropriate punishment, but also, much more trickily, to find a ‘crime against league’ that fits.

There was no actual criminal act because their sexual partners in Port were of an age that the law slides around. There is no suggestion the sexual contact was not consensual, and indeed, to cast the girls as passive victims is to deny them sexual agency. This does not make them victims or the footballers predators, or vice versa; it simply leaves them as four heedless young people who followed their appetites into a world of adult consequence.


The transgression for which the players have been stood aside is a code of conduct breach at the Bulldogs club, which prohibits players bringing guests to their hotel rooms. If you’ll recall, two Wallabies players fell into similar strife a couple of years ago, when they were dropped for breaching team protocol by having female visitors in their hotel room after a Test match. Even though one of the females was her host’s sister-in-law, and nothing more transgressive than a game of pinochle took place. More took place in Port, but if you are a player, your clear take-away from this code of conduct breach is that if you meet a girl and the pair of you want to have sex, you ought to do it in a car, a park or a phone booth, up a tree or in a bathroom … anywhere in fact, so long as it is not the pure sacristy of the team hotel.

If there is a sub-sub-transgression, it is the lingering bad odour of ‘schoolgirls’ being predated upon. But what happened was a little more convoluted. One of the girls met one of the players during a school visit, but she had to send him a picture to remind him. The other girl did not meet the players during the visit. Nevertheless, the image of school uniforms, and the mere word ‘schoolgirls’, are enough to set off a moral panic; however long the bow that is drawn, however far apart the dots that must be joined, to make that narrative.

Initially, I’d thought the players’ offence was against public health, and that by swapping saliva with members of the public, the two Bulldogs players were potentially endangering all Bulldogs, match officials, competitors and fans they encountered during the next 14 days, and the Dogs would now have to stage their campaign to avoid the wooden spoon before empty stadiums (in case you could tell the difference). But no, it wasn’t about health; this was the one story in the whole world that was not about COVID bloody 19.

Then the conversation turned to how Okunbor and Harawira-Naera brought the game of rugby league into disrepute. Jokes aside, rugby league thrives on disrepute like mushrooms thrive on cowpats. The comedy of disrepute extended to the restaurant chain Rashays (The Best Casual Restaurant & Cafe Near You – Get a Schnitty for $10 Today & Tomorrow ONLY!), which was about to sign a jersey sponsorship with the Bulldogs, but pulled out after the Port incident. In fear of being brought into disrepute, Rashays coupled its name indelibly with ‘Bulldogs’ and ‘Port Macquarie’ by making lengthy public statements about just how much disrepute it narrowly avoided.

And by the end of this performance, you could still get a schnitty for $10 yesterday and the day before. Port (which, along with Coffs Harbour, might have its own case for being brought into disrepute by the Bulldogs – where next, Taree?) will no doubt soon have a Rashays of its own. I’ve never seen a restaurant chain get so much publicity for not wanting to be associated with publicity.

As flamboyant as Rashays was in publicly distancing itself from the Bulldogs, nobody looked quite as much as if they could do with a free schnitty as poor old Dean Pay. There was the Bulldogs coach, alongside his chief executive Andrew Hill, in a press conference trying to evade the task of defending the indefensible or explain the inexplicable. Both looked as if they had seen the same ghost. These were hard-working servants of the game who had been made to look like fools.


It was while watching the fooled Pay and Hill, considering all this disrepute, that the penny finally dropped. The transgression that has been committed is that of making fools out of … everyone. The two players had made fools of Pay and Hill. They made fools of the NRL and its message of respect for women. They made fools of those members of the public who believe and accept the message that rugby league players routinely disrespect women. They made fools of the Women in League, and for that matter the Men in League.

There are many who never believe any of that PR in the first place, who have a cynical view of rugby league, a cynicism cloaked in amusement. This incident is so rugby league; it’s even more rugby league than actual games of rugby league. It speaks to a great big pantomime: here are the things that league says it believes in, here are the people league says it speaks for, but it’s all show. What is really happening in rugby league is dumb young men with narcissistic pride in their bodies and a sense of entitlement, whose current adventure in life is about any opportunity that comes their way in their brief moment of youth and celebrity. Everything else is hypocrisy.

This incident is not on the same continuum as the serious crimes involving violence, drugs and drink-driving for which league players have been convicted. Instead it belongs with the party-boy peccadillos, the stupid shit. These aren’t hanging offences, but in some ways they are the most corrosive acts a league player can commit, because they are saying that all the high-minded professions of morality, all the modernising of culture, all the charity work and championing of progressive causes, are really just an act for the cameras that league players are dragooned into performing, while what’s really happening, what’s really on their minds, is not much different from what was on their minds back in the dark ages.

These players are guilty of lifting a lid to reveal the real world of rugby league, a world that never caught up. Harawira-Naera and Okunbor have been caught making fools of too many people, inside and outside the game, to get away unpunished. Their actions have exposed a pantomime made of cardboard sets. In order to restore its own dignity, the game is now facing the task of inventing a ‘crime against league’ to fit the punishment.

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/nr...-punishment-for-dogs-duo-20200312-p549m5.html
 

TwinTurbo

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Yeah but she said yes. As in "yes I was at SCHOOL:. The dumb **** should have ended it then and there. If he was so built up with sexual tension after finding out he was talking to a school kid, go and bust a nut into the toilet LOL.

Sack the clown.

Go Dogs!!!
Unbelievably stupid, extremely naive and just plain dumb, but there’s no law against being dumb.

Go Dogs
 

wendog33

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It's a good article then...just presenting both the moral aspects and reality of modern day life.

He does draw a judgement that the players have made Pay, Hill, Club, NRL, themselves look like fools and confirms the continuation of the perceived belief that footy players are dumb, narcissistic boneheads.
This article left me wondering who's side he was on?
 

Haddaway

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Unbelievably stupid, extremely naive and just plain dumb, but there’s no law against being dumb.

Go Dogs
That's true and I've said if they get off because by the law they havnt done anything wrong, I will be fine with it.

Just for me, id rather not have Okunbor in the team or at our club. He knew he was plonking a kid from school, all be it legally. Just something that doesn't sit right with me.

CHN im unsure of. If it's true he didn't know she was a school kid, and may get on tinder or what ever, then time off and a fine would be ok even if I think he's an idiot aswell.

I'd just have to hate to cheer for a guy I deem as a creepy perv, all be it a legal creepy perv.
 

CrittaMagic69

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Don't know mate. Dont' see the sense of even bringing that up as they're two clearly seperate cases and incidents.

Imagine you're goign down the route that Pay was lenient in the past, was acting a bit like the lads and perhaps the boys took that the wrong way and / or lost a little respect for him?

Maybe it's true, but think it's pretty clear Pay and the Dogs were brutally honest with all the lads after that encounter NOT to act up again. Brutally honest with the lads before going on these tripy NOT to act up again. Whether Pay was inconsistent or whatever point you're trying to make about Elliot is true, I really don't see the connection to here. If they indeed acted out because he wasn't hard enough, or was hypocritical or whatever you're trying to say then ... they really do need to be let go.
Okay I'll ask you this. Do you believe this is the ONLY incident to happen since the mad monday scandal? Are we to believe not a single person at the club knew about players fucking in the hotel? Like c'mon. If this didn't leak the club wouldn't have said shit.
 

bricktamland

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Wow you are amazing if you can recognize someone from the back of their head.. lol okunbor filming? Wow you've got a very creative imagination.

I've seen the video and you are off your tree.. statements like you made are part of the problem
. The only reason it wasn't deleted is so i could be dispell the rubbish you just wrote
The video was sent with the label port maqurie night club from a mate who follows the bulldogs , I never said it was real, not gonna debate if it’s real or not just saying it was labeled and sent a day after the “scandal” came to air . I’m a fan of him I don’t want him sacked
 

KLil

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Unbelievably stupid, extremely naive and just plain dumb, but there’s no law against being dumb.

Go Dogs
Okunbor should still get sacked... The fact he didn't realise there was anything wrong with what he was doing in itself calls for a sacking.
 

GDR

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The video was sent with the label port maqurie night club from a mate who follows the bulldogs , I never said it was real, not gonna debate if it’s real or not just saying it was labeled and sent a day after the “scandal” came to air . I’m a fan of him I don’t want him sacked
What you said spreads like wildfire and causes more of a stir its unnecessary.. your first comment did not clarify anything..
 

KLil

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I know mate but Pay isn’t allowed excuses so neither should Holbrook
First game with a shit team, putting that into context with a guy who knows his players very well now and still cant organise their positioning or cant find the right game plan for the job has some serious issues.
 

LordSidious66

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First game with a shit team, putting that into context with a guy who knows his players very well now and still cant organise their positioning or cant find the right game plan for the job has some serious issues.
If Holbrook can't fix the Titans, then no one can.
 

c-b-b

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I know mate but Pay isn’t allowed excuses so neither should Holbrook
To compare the situations we'll have to see where Holbrook sits in 2 years, who he's managed to recruit and where the club stands.

They've had about the same starting point, neither had players of their choosing, not alot of money to play with and some overpayed players that haven't lived up to the hype.
 

JackDog

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Unbelievably stupid, extremely naive and just plain dumb, but there’s no law against being dumb.

Go Dogs
But there is a law against asking someone that is or looks under 18 for a nude pic. If those Snapchat screenshots are real, Cocknbur should be sacked (and IMO the NRL prevent his NRL re-employment for the duration of his present contract).

CHN is a 24yo manchild idiot that went against club rules and expectations that would’ve been drilled into them repeatedly. IMO the same treatment is due, but I could understand if he only gets a long suspension and big fine, if proved he met her completely independently of school/Cocknbur and she lied about her age/school status
 

diddly

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Let’s agree to disagree on the definition of “met”. Working with children is an interesting question. Since they were there on a promotional visit, not supervising, controlling, managing, instructing or teaching I’m not sure that it meets the “working” test. More invited guest.

Surely if it did the school would be on the case, reporting to police and making a formal complaint. Doesn’t seem to have happened so far and they have had opportunity.

Go Dogs
Anyone going into a school in an official capacity - a tradie, guest speaker, volunteer, canteen helper etc has to either provide a cleared working with children check or sign a form stating they have no priors - depends on the level of interaction supervised or unsupervised with students.

If the players met the girls for the first time at a licensed venue would put a different bent on the issue.
 

TwinTurbo

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Anyone going into a school in an official capacity - a tradie, guest speaker, volunteer, canteen helper etc has to either provide a cleared working with children check or sign a form stating they have no priors - depends on the level of interaction supervised or unsupervised with students.
If the players met the girls for the first time at a licensed venue would put a different bent on the issue.
It would seem from what we know so far that CHN is totally in the clear on that one as he didn't attend the school promotional visit.

Go Dogs
 
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