Tolman

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I don't take Tolman's defence for granted. He's one of the best defensive forwards in the comp. I've always praised him for that. But he shouldn't be taking two hitups a set as he offers no impact, slow play the balls and minimal yardage.

It's not an overreaction, Tolman getting in the way in attack and having too many ineffectual runs has been an issue dating back to Des' last few seasons. Nothing has changed.

If Tolman was a tackling machine lock who only ran it a handful of times so they were quality runs over quantity then I wouldn't have an issue. But Tolman can't help himself and insists on hogging it.

So many people disagree with me because they don't like anyone questioning Tolman as he's such a great clubman and works so hard every game. No one is doubting that.

But we're on track for our fourth year in a row missing the finals and having Tolman playing huge minutes and having 20 carries a game is a huge part of the problem. At what point do they address and change things which clearly aren't working?
You genuinely believe that Tolman is a major reason that we haven’t made the 8 recently?

He’s been heavily involved in teams that have made the Grand Final on 3 occasions in the past decade. The way he played then is no different to what it is now.

The issue in recent years has been the cattle around him. If we’d had a genuine playmaker and perhaps an additional attacking weapon or 2 amongst the ranks fit and healthy then I guarantee there wouldn’t be any complaints about the job Tols does.

Tolmans just the scapegoat.
 

B-Train

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You genuinely believe that Tolman is a major reason that we haven’t made the 8 recently?

He’s been heavily involved in teams that have made the Grand Final on 3 occasions in the past decade. The way he played then is no different to what it is now.

The issue in recent years has been the cattle around him. If we’d had a genuine playmaker and perhaps an additional attacking weapon or 2 amongst the ranks fit and healthy then I guarantee there wouldn’t be any complaints about the job Tols does.

Tolmans just the scapegoat.
I said Tolman is a huge part of the problem. That problem is we have too many players who are defensive minded with no real size, skill or footwork. A pack with Tolman, Napa, Stimson, Jackson and Elliott isn't striking fear in anyone and will always struggle for metres and offloads. None of those players can break a game open.

Considering Tolman is the one who takes the most runs and has the most touches out of those players, and often stifles momentum in attack or gets in the way more than the others, then he gets a lot of criticism.

Tolman won't be here next year and this is another rebuilding season. Hopefully soon enough To'omaga gets more minutes and his and Ogden's development is prioritised.
 

CroydonDog

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A sack Tolman thread within 12 hours of round one. I'm kind of impressed.
 

B-Train

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A sack Tolman thread within 12 hours of round one. I'm kind of impressed.
Not suggesting to drop him. I know that will never happen. Just don't play him the first 50 minutes of the game like he's Payne Haas and tell him to stop getting in the way so much in attacking positions.
 

Dingo

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Tolman would be useful coming off the bench as both sides are tiring.
 

Howard Moon

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Not suggesting to drop him. I know that will never happen. Just don't play him the first 50 minutes of the game like he's Payne Haas and tell him to stop getting in the way so much in attacking positions.
might not be the strongest carrier of the ball but he keeps that middle tight which is just as important in that first 20. I agree that he should see less ball in the strike zone, but if it's not him it's some other forward, so that's on Pay
 

Berries

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Napa or Elliot would make a good run and get the defense on the back foot and this bloke would legit like you said make 3 meters. It’s over for the bloke, should not be playing a single match further.
 

Alan79

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I don't take Tolman's defence for granted. He's one of the best defensive forwards in the comp. I've always praised him for that. But he shouldn't be taking two hitups a set as he offers no impact, slow play the balls and minimal yardage.

It's not an overreaction, Tolman getting in the way in attack and having too many ineffectual runs has been an issue dating back to Des' last few seasons. Nothing has changed.

If Tolman was a tackling machine lock who only ran it a handful of times so they were quality runs over quantity then I wouldn't have an issue. But Tolman can't help himself and insists on hogging it.

So many people disagree with me because they don't like anyone questioning Tolman as he's such a great clubman and works so hard every game. No one is doubting that.

But we're on track for our fourth year in a row missing the finals and having Tolman playing huge minutes and having 20 carries a game is a huge part of the problem. At what point do they address and change things which clearly aren't working?
We had the upper hand in the forwards last night. I don't think any player stood out for being overly good or bad. By rights, the fact that Tolman does the hard yards for a long period should leave it open for forwards that are more physically dominant fresh to make a difference.

It's easy to say sacrifice defence for more attacking players. But nobody has thrown their hand up to take on that X factor forward role. If someone puts their hands up to be that player the ball will wind up going their way more frequently. People complained that Klemmer was under used at first. Like everyone that earns promotion, they also have to earn the respect of those around them when they hit the top 17.
 

Scoooby

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Tolman Lol, has his place in some sense, been around forever. And I won’t be disappointed when he goes, he wears the blue an white so although he is not a great player, because of his loyalty I will give him a break.
 

zac hollywood

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Has been a real trier as a player and defensively sound, but if dean pay isn’t screaming into his face at half time about getting out of the the play from tackle 3 onwards then pay really has no idea. Lewis nickname should be bomber , modern day Johnny peard we must just be picking him to put up bombs, love the dogs and in my opinion we have some very ordinary footballers in our squad, but the way we play in attack, we need someone with gumption to get into pays ear, and just tell him mate we need to change this
 

Noeasyday

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I'm a Tolman fan, he does need to get out of the way a bit, but come on, he's a front rower.
It's the halfbacks job to tell him to get out of the way, run a decoy etc.
If we had a stronger halfback who did that, Tolman wouldn't have to make 20 hit ups a game and might have some more impact in his runs.
 

zac hollywood

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I'm a Tolman fan, he does need to get out of the way a bit, but come on, he's a front rower.
It's the halfbacks job to tell him to get out of the way, run a decoy etc.
If we had a stronger halfback who did that, Tolman wouldn't have to make 20 hit ups a game and might have some more impact in his runs.
I agree about strong halves but we don’t have that, we have a kid who judging by last night in attack was purposely given the minority of ball and the guy who got majority of ball can’t attack, he is dead set there to kick bombs, and both would be worried about there own positions in the side. As I said it may be a case of pay really putting it to Tolman behind closed doors when we are in attack. And if he keeps doing it make an example out of him. I may be way of the mark with the dynamic of the boys on the park, just hope our attack gets better.
 

Papa Emeritus

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Tolman does a lot of good, but yeah I have no idea why he gets so many hitups. Like let him do all of his defensive work but we need someone else trying to bend the line.
 

Blueandwhiteblood1968

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Surely we can't go another full season of Tolman playing 50-60 minutes taking two hitups a set? Last night he was honestly making three and four metres a run and just surrenders to the defence. Then we get a slow play the ball and the next guy makes no yards because of Tolman's run. Then Tolman repeats the process two tackles later...

No hint of an offload or tackle break and nothing resembling a ten metre carry.. He's a ball hog like Gallen but without the roids and peptides.

At what point do our halves or the coaches tell him to get out of the way or bench him? Playing him 50 minutes straight to start the game and not again after that was bizarre minute management by Pay.

Renouf and RFM needed to get on earlier to spell Napa and Tolman and provide some impact.
I'm sick of Tolman, slow, useless, and a fucking hinderence, and I'll throw our useless coach in their too, can't coach for shit, couldn't score one try, what did these players do over summer, oh that's right.
Tolman is shit but their are a lot of other players who look like they were on a Macca's diet, fuck I hope they don't re-sign our useless coach but guaranteed they will, so sick of this mediocre shit.
 

Cappuccino

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What a stupid thing to even joke about. Tolman turns up every week and gives his all and was solid again last night
His all is not enough then. Make him a player that only tackles and takes minimum hitups or get rid of him. Its been 5 years of him taking shit carries and making 5m a run with a slow play the ball. Give rfm britt and renouf more minutes imo
 

_G-Dog_

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Surely we can't go another full season of Tolman playing 50-60 minutes taking two hitups a set? Last night he was honestly making three and four metres a run and just surrenders to the defence. Then we get a slow play the ball and the next guy makes no yards because of Tolman's run. Then Tolman repeats the process two tackles later...

No hint of an offload or tackle break and nothing resembling a ten metre carry.. He's a ball hog like Gallen but without the roids and peptides.

At what point do our halves or the coaches tell him to get out of the way or bench him? Playing him 50 minutes straight to start the game and not again after that was bizarre minute management by Pay.

Renouf and RFM needed to get on earlier to spell Napa and Tolman and provide some impact.
I see where your coming from but Tolman is the least of our problems.. The spine needs a shakeup first otherwise we will struggle to score..
 

diddly

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You genuinely believe that Tolman is a major reason that we haven’t made the 8 recently?

He’s been heavily involved in teams that have made the Grand Final on 3 occasions in the past decade. The way he played then is no different to what it is now.

The issue in recent years has been the cattle around him. If we’d had a genuine playmaker and perhaps an additional attacking weapon or 2 amongst the ranks fit and healthy then I guarantee there wouldn’t be any complaints about the job Tols does.

Tolmans just the scapegoat.
Well said - its not his fault others keep passing him the ball - he gets into position of a middle forward but unfortunately the dummy half or the first receiver passes to him more often than not.
 

simmmo

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You genuinely believe that Tolman is a major reason that we haven’t made the 8 recently?

He’s been heavily involved in teams that have made the Grand Final on 3 occasions in the past decade. The way he played then is no different to what it is now.

The issue in recent years has been the cattle around him. If we’d had a genuine playmaker and perhaps an additional attacking weapon or 2 amongst the ranks fit and healthy then I guarantee there wouldn’t be any complaints about the job Tols does.

Tolmans just the scapegoat.
Not the scape goat. Just that we have too many plodders. Tolman is part his prime. He's not the reason by himslef why we haven't been successful. But on the other hand, he's not going to win premiership by himself. When the dogs were good, we had the likes of kasiano, Pritchard, Eastwood on the pack. Now we've got cream puffs. Only Napa has got that intimidation factor. Renouf and Ogden need to be in that team. Starting. I reckon you have Jacko on their to provide spine in defense. Elliot and Tolman drop out for me.
 

GoTheDoggies

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Tolman needs to go it's that simple.

Des' deadwood needs to be cleansed from the club.
 
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