Is Pay anywhere near as smart as Trent Robinson ?

MatstaDogg

The Bearded Baker
Premium Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2008
Messages
9,703
Reaction score
8,732
I know which one has the more punchable face....hint, last name Robinson, first name Trent :laughing:
 

TwinTurbo

Kennel Legend
Gilded
Joined
Oct 22, 2018
Messages
9,346
Reaction score
15,417
You've engaged in a fair bit of hyperbole there as only Jennings, SBW, Moa and O'Donnell were international/SOO level players at that time. So as far as the other 6 go, they became international/SOO level players as part of the Roosters squad.

And to further downplay that recruitment, Jennings was unwanted at Penrith, Moa had only represented Tonga at that time, O'Donnell was in the ESL and SBW hadn't played League for 5 years. So our recruitment for 2013 is not as impressive as you're trying to make it.
I don't have to hyper bowl it, anyone who reads that list knows exactly what it meant. I could one by one discount your bypassing of the facts, but let's just start with MJennings, reportedly signed for $2m dollars for 4 years. Remember this was 2013 with an NRL salary cap of $5.1m (source = https://www.nrl.com/operations/integrity/salary-cap/) so a % of cap equivalent to almost $4m today ie; $1m a year. Hardly seems like what you would pay for an "unwanted" player, just because Penrith supposedly didn't want him doesn't mean that other clubs weren't competing for his signature. Maybe they didn't want him because he wanted $2m and only the Chooks would pay it. Moving on, I don't think anyone would believe for a nanosecond that the SBW signing was at all a risk.

Even if we stick to your claim that "only Jennings, SBW, Moa and O'Donnell were international/SOO level players at that time" that's still 4 very high quality, representative level players in ONE YEAR hardly any wonder that the team improved from 2012 to 2013. Which after all was the subject of the discussion, whether Robinson made the difference between the 2 years, when plainly based on the facts he didn't.

As a comparison, just for fun, in the same year we recruited the household names of DLow, TWilliams, MBrown, HAlaalatoa, LBurr and a 19 year old DKlemmer. And FMD if we were the ones who got Salary Cap audited.

Go Dogs
 

KambahOne

Kennel Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 3, 2019
Messages
3,659
Reaction score
4,735
I don't have to hyper bowl it, anyone who reads that list knows exactly what it meant. I could one by one discount your bypassing of the facts, but let's just start with MJennings, reportedly signed for $2m dollars for 4 years. Remember this was 2013 with an NRL salary cap of $5.1m (source = https://www.nrl.com/operations/integrity/salary-cap/) so a % of cap equivalent to almost $4m today ie; $1m a year. Hardly seems like what you would pay for an "unwanted" player, just because Penrith supposedly didn't want him doesn't mean that other clubs weren't competing for his signature. Maybe they didn't want him because he wanted $2m and only the Chooks would pay it.
Maybe, but he was unwanted by Penrith and that was widely know from the time he arrived at training pissed.

Moving on, I don't think anyone would believe for a nanosecond that the SBW signing was at all a risk.
There was heaps of doubt as to whether he would make a successful return, especially given he was recovering from a ruptured pec at the time. Here read some of the Kennel's comments upon hearing of his return - https://www.thekennel.net.au/forum/...rn-to-the-nrl-with-the-sydney-roosters.81639/
"Phuck SBW, he'll spend most of his time injured anyway (I hope)"
"sonny bill is past his best and will be injured more games than he will play."
"The Roosters have rocks in their heads putting all their eggs in one basket,"
"They can have the tampon"

There were numerous columns about the risk of bringing him back.

Even if we stick to your claim that "only Jennings, SBW, Moa and O'Donnell were international/SOO level players at that time" that's still 4 very high quality, representative level players in ONE YEAR hardly any wonder that the team improved from 2012 to 2013.
Both Moa and O'Donnell were playing in the ESL at the time we recruited them with Sam having played 1, just 1 NRL game at the Nulla before moving to England and O'Donnell had been in the ESL for two years. It is complete hyperbole to even consider them "very high quality" players.

Which after all was the subject of the discussion, whether Robinson made the difference between the 2 years, when plainly based on the facts he didn't.
Of course the coach made the difference. We conceded 626 points in 2012 and 325 in 2013, you don't call that a difference?

As a comparison, just for fun, in the same year we recruited the household names of DLow, TWilliams, MBrown, HAlaalatoa, LBurr and a 19 year old DKlemmer. And FMD if we were the ones who got Salary Cap audited.
Yes but you were in the middle of your Des years and we all know about his recruitment don't we.
 

Alan79

Kennel Legend
Joined
Mar 10, 2007
Messages
13,195
Reaction score
18,943
Maybe, but he was unwanted by Penrith and that was widely know from the time he arrived at training pissed.



There was heaps of doubt as to whether he would make a successful return, especially given he was recovering from a ruptured pec at the time. Here read some of the Kennel's comments upon hearing of his return - https://www.thekennel.net.au/forum/...rn-to-the-nrl-with-the-sydney-roosters.81639/
"Phuck SBW, he'll spend most of his time injured anyway (I hope)"
"sonny bill is past his best and will be injured more games than he will play."
"The Roosters have rocks in their heads putting all their eggs in one basket,"
"They can have the tampon"

There were numerous columns about the risk of bringing him back.



Both Moa and O'Donnell were playing in the ESL at the time we recruited them with Sam having played 1, just 1 NRL game at the Nulla before moving to England and O'Donnell had been in the ESL for two years. It is complete hyperbole to even consider them "very high quality" players.



Of course the coach made the difference. We conceded 626 points in 2012 and 325 in 2013, you don't call that a difference?


Yes but you were in the middle of your Des years and we all know about his recruitment don't we.
Jennings was pushed out when the Panthers started reaping the benefits of having scalped an amazing talent scout from us. They have an incredible nursery to draw on and it was paying off at the time. They opted for youth over an expensive option and it's quite probable that the Chooks pushed the price up on Jennings.

With SBW, many opinions here are tainted by the way he left after we saw him as our future. By the time he returned, the growing pains type of injuries he had suffered from were largely behind him and he was close to peak fitness. The tainted opinions of people who still despise him for leaving when things were bleak for the club don't necessarily mean he wasn't a quality acquisition. The hype surrounding his signing will tell you that.

O'Donnell wasn't a massive game breaking attacking player, nor was he a slouch. But his defensive efforts were among the best in the game and his experience would have been very helpful. It's taking some liberties to deny that he was a quality player.

I didn't ever follow Moa but when you recruit hugely promising players into a system with enough quality to let them play pressure free football they have an easier path to achieving big things.

Comparitively, we added guys like O'Meley and Andrew Ryan who'd both cracked into city country, but faded away to yoyoing between NRL and the lower grades. I think they both stepped into rep contention within a year of joining us.

But Robinson really won the lottery with the squad he's been given. Eventually he'll be at a club where he doesn't have the same level of quality and it will test the myth.
 

Kempsey Dog

Kennel Immortal
Premium Member
SC Top Scorer
Tipping Champion
Joined
Apr 29, 2014
Messages
23,486
Reaction score
24,813
Any coach could analyse the game after they just sat through the whole thing. He's had it pretty easy, stacked squad and all the resources in the world...
 

Flanagun

Banned
In the Sin Bin
Joined
May 25, 2011
Messages
22,588
Reaction score
20,580
I’m sure all coaches can break a game down. Robinson has had the best rosters in the competition throughout most of his career and the one year his team was tested with a big injury toll, they flopped like a sack of pancakes.

overrated.
 

Psycho Doggie

Kennel Immortal
Joined
Mar 25, 2014
Messages
17,850
Reaction score
25,355
I'd expect anyone who has been a head coach for a decade to be able to do this.

I'd also expect only those with a raging ego to do it for the cameras.
 

GA45

Kennel Addict
Joined
Apr 28, 2017
Messages
6,378
Reaction score
7,511
No argument. But along with that he's taken quite a few 'also rans' and turned them into rep players, Issac Liu, Siua Tukeiaho, Tetevano, Victor Radley (future), Joey Manu, Latrell Mitchell and Lindsay Collins will be a SOO rep within a year or two.
Also rans Latrell and Manu. FMD
 

KambahOne

Kennel Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 3, 2019
Messages
3,659
Reaction score
4,735
Jennings was pushed out when the Panthers started reaping the benefits of having scalped an amazing talent scout from us. They have an incredible nursery to draw on and it was paying off at the time. They opted for youth over an expensive option and it's quite probable that the Chooks pushed the price up on Jennings.

With SBW, many opinions here are tainted by the way he left after we saw him as our future. By the time he returned, the growing pains type of injuries he had suffered from were largely behind him and he was close to peak fitness. The tainted opinions of people who still despise him for leaving when things were bleak for the club don't necessarily mean he wasn't a quality acquisition. The hype surrounding his signing will tell you that.
Fair enough, the views of the Kennel were probably tainted, but the hype was never a guarantee SBW would make it back in the NRL just like the hype around every young talent that comes through is no guarantee they'll make it in the NRL. There were concerns his body would not hold up to the rigors of the NRL, that he would not adjust to the new pace of the game and those calls only grew after he was trampled by Sam Burgess in his first game back. Did he turn out to be an astute purchase, yes absolutely, but there were massive doubts yet we took the risk.

O'Donnell wasn't a massive game breaking attacking player, nor was he a slouch. But his defensive efforts were among the best in the game and his experience would have been very helpful. It's taking some liberties to deny that he was a quality player.
He was quality in his prime, but at the time we brought him he was 33, had not played rep footy for 3 years and had been playing in the ESL for 2 years. When I first heard about us buying him my initial thought was "welcome to the transit lounge" and it certainly wasn't a bidding war to get him.

I didn't ever follow Moa but when you recruit hugely promising players into a system with enough quality to let them play pressure free football they have an easier path to achieving big things.
True and sometimes it's simply good luck. Fitzy had been playing with Sam at Hull F.C. and when he returned to the coaching gig for 2013 he made mention of Sam and we made an offer. Again there was no bidding war as no one else wanted to offer him a gig in the NRL, but we did and Sam made the most of the opportunity we gave him.

Comparitively, we added guys like O'Meley and Andrew Ryan who'd both cracked into city country, but faded away to yoyoing between NRL and the lower grades. I think they both stepped into rep contention within a year of joining us.
I read that as poor coaching rather than poor recruitment. You had players that could obviously make rep teams but not maintain that level consistently. That's on their coach.

But Robinson really won the lottery with the squad he's been given. Eventually he'll be at a club where he doesn't have the same level of quality and it will test the myth.
Where you see a squad he's been given, I see a squad he's help build.
 

B-Train

Kennel Immortal
Joined
Mar 1, 2004
Messages
32,591
Reaction score
48,171
Robinson is clearly a good coach with a lot of knowledge. But he's certainly lucky to have the talent he has at his disposal every year and I'd like to see how he goes somewhere else also... But he has the Roosters job for as long as he wants it..

Robinson is a great defensive/wrestling coach but any success they have in attack is down to the freakish talents of their backlines and not due to Robinson's "genius".

This year will be more of a test for them as despite them still having talent everywhere, the losses of Cronk and Latrell will affect them massively and I think they'll struggle to score points against the better teams. I think there's no chance the Roosters win the comp this season.
 

DogsOfWar1704

Kennel Addict
Premium Member
Ladder Champion
Joined
Jan 25, 2020
Messages
6,404
Reaction score
10,463
Smart enough to not let his get house broken into
 

The DoggFather

OG DF
Premium Member
Gilded
Site's Top Poster
Joined
Sep 2, 2012
Messages
106,385
Reaction score
117,483
Pay is leading by default, he isn't the smartest coach but is smart enough not to spend 150k on a station wagon that's probably made in Guatemala.
 
Top