News A terrible day for all Australians - Holden axed in Australia

bricktamland

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Do you have proof or just an opinion? Because the royal commission investigation couldn't find any evidence. But it's never stopped people from stating opinions as fact.
Their politicians , they lie and are grubs. You’re telling me all the hearsay and stuff behind a man who ran a union didn’t use political gain to green light consutrction jobs?
It’s why he lost, labor are more useless then the liberal
 

Roll the Bones

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Camaro is sold under the HSV currently so they might get away with it?

I'm sure the Supercars will change the rules or they will lose the majority of fans if GM isn't represented.
Supercars basically wants to morph into a pissweak Oz version of Nascar (except with tracks with some right-hand turns :laughing:), as the younger generations coming through don't really give a fuck about the ford v holden thing anymore. Actually, most of my nephews, younger workmates etc would probably rather watch a 'race' between a Prius and a lime scooter.
 

Alan79

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Their politicians , they lie and are grubs. You’re telling me all the hearsay and stuff behind a man who ran a union didn’t use political gain to green light consutrction jobs?
It’s why he lost, labor are more useless then the liberal
All I'm saying on the matter is that if they could prove guilt on his behalf he wouldn't have been around for the last election. Going back to Rudd's early days as PM the libs had a plant try to get him ousted over ute gate (basically a friend allowed him to put a placard on a ute), Julia Gillard faced a royal commission over a deal that she was a notary on many years previously. They raised a lot more questions about Shorten, but it's proven to be a good strategy for them to discredit opponents with this. He was not found guilty of a single allegation. So I'm going to assume that he has nothing to answer for.

It might seem like less of a coincidence if the liberals weren't prone to having federal police initiate raids and doing things of this nature on a relatively frequent basis.
 

KambahOne

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While I don't disagree that unions have done some good personally I think a lot of people have a fantasised view of unions when most of the time they claim to be working for the people when in reality all they are doing is lining their pockets or using them as a stepping stone for their careers. Bill Shorten is a perfect example of that.
The exact same can be said about business and the fantasy that is being perpetuated on the Australian people about how good "business being strong" is for everyone. You only have to listen to that malignant old crone from the Tax Dodgers Council of Australia Jennifer Westacott and the crap she spews forth about how business is driver of our economy when economics 101 tells you the people are the economy. Without people having money to send from decent wages then business suffers as no one has any money to spend in their businesses.

Running a business in this country used to be an honorable and fair endeavor, now the four pillars of business in this country are rip off your workers, rip off your customers, rip off the tax man and rip off other businesses.
 

Wahesh

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Take
On
Your
Option
To
Accelerate, bitch.

 

Alan79

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The exact same can be said about business and the fantasy that is being perpetuated on the Australian people about how good "business being strong" is for everyone. You only have to listen to that malignant old crone from the Tax Dodgers Council of Australia Jennifer Westacott and the crap she spews forth about how business is driver of our economy when economics 101 tells you the people are the economy. Without people having money to send from decent wages then business suffers as no one has any money to spend in their businesses.

Running a business in this country used to be an honorable and fair endeavor, now the four pillars of business in this country are rip off your workers, rip off your customers, rip off the tax man and rip off other businesses.
Very true. It's the trickle down economics myth. Most economists will tell you that trickle down economics doesn't work. Owners of huge businesses might benefit from it due to the fact that buying in bulk allows them to sell products more cheaply. So they get the lions share of customers. But small business owners suffer but largely still buy the myth. The myth appeals to their greed rather than common sense. In theory, tax breaks for business owners seem like a great thing. But if the majority of customers are suffering from severely limited budgets, the amount of money saved from tax breaks can generally be less than the money they'd make if more customers could afford to spend a bit more.
 

KambahOne

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The song has to be changed.

Football, Meat Pies, Kangaroos and Hybrid Cars?
 

Dawgfather

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Holden axed in Australia as General Motors gets out of right-hand-drive globally

The Holden brand will be retired at the end of this year, selected showrooms may stock a limited range of Chevrolet vehicles under new General Motors Specialty Vehicles badge.

Holden will be axed in Australia at the end of 2020 – just three years after the end of local manufacturing and the lowest monthly sales since it was established in 1948 – as US car giant General Motors gets out of right-hand-drive markets globally.

Although Holden had been posting record low sales – which led to the end of the Commodore and Astra models late last year – the announcement has still come as a shock to industry veterans now the brand has lost its final lifeline.

General Motors will also close its Melbourne design studio and test track at Lang Lang on the south-east outskirts of Melbourne. Approximately 600 of the 800 jobs will be lost, with all being awarded redundancies. The remaining workforce of 200 people will take care of Holden's ongoing service and warranty commitments for up to 10 years.

Holden management informed head office staff and dealers about midday today. An official media statement from Holden is forthcoming.

Sauce

Can I be the first to say NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Why did the government waste $2 billion in subsidies to Holden. Should have just turned off the tap and said if you can't run a profit making business on your own, then the tax payers aren't going to subsidise you. What a waste of cash.
 

Psycho Doggie

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Why did the government waste $2 billion in subsidies to Holden. Should have just turned off the tap and said if you can't run a profit making business on your own, then the tax payers aren't going to subsidise you. What a waste of cash.
You could just as easily ask why didn't the government use the four years time they gained by paying $2 billion and put in place some schemes to help promote local industry and jobs in the automotive sector. GM has been pulling out of RHD markets, the signs were there. GM is a foreign company, they don't have any larger obligation to the Australian people and government than what they agree to, and they kept their side of the agreement. The government on the other hand does have an obligation to the Australian people, they are the ones who voted them in and gave them positions of power.
 

Wahesh

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Last year, as soon as Holden announced that they were going to cease making the Commodore (their flagship car) and the Astra (an economical car) you really had to ask yourself how were they going to possibly continue to operate. The writing was on the wall then. I guess we all saw this day coming, but we just didn't expect it to come so soon.

Another thing Holden need to realise is that car companies like Toyota and, Mitsubishi, Nissan etc... make a huge range of cars, where most holdens (with the exception of the Astra, were fairly large cars. Australia is an expensive country to live in (even more-so in capital cities) and cars need to be affordable and economical to run and maintain. I found Holden lacked in this areas as a lot of their cars were v6 and v8 cars that drank a lot of petrol. JDM car companies have more variety and are internationally recognised in many countries - sadly, the same could not be said for Holden.
 

Dawgfather

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You could just as easily ask why didn't the government use the four years time they gained by paying $2 billion and put in place some schemes to help promote local industry and jobs in the automotive sector. GM has been pulling out of RHD markets, the signs were there. GM is a foreign company, they don't have any larger obligation to the Australian people and government than what they agree to, and they kept their side of the agreement. The government on the other hand does have an obligation to the Australian people, they are the ones who voted them in and gave them positions of power.
Why direct $2bn of cash, and stupid amounts of government employees time towards a sector that clearly isn't profitable in the first place.

Better to spend the time and money on figuring out a way to employ these workers when Holden eventually fails (which it was obviously always destined to do).

Anyone who thought that giving Holden some cash was going to change the underlying factors causing the problems was either stupid or just not willing to open their eyes.
 

Alan79

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Why did the government waste $2 billion in subsidies to Holden. Should have just turned off the tap and said if you can't run a profit making business on your own, then the tax payers aren't going to subsidise you. What a waste of cash.
In the end the 250,000 jobs that are estimated to have disappeared as a result of the business going off shore will largely mean that they pay a lot more people on welfare. Those people have less money to help stimulate small business. This results in small business struggling and as a result those small businesses probably let some staff go. The economy is driven by the people at the bottom spending money. So that 2 billion would have kept moving through the businesses it stimulates. Every dollar spent keeping jobs in the country will flow back around. If that money went to a million different businesses, those businesses all pay tax on it. Every dollar spent by individuals is subject to the GST. The business owners pay further taxes on their disposable income as do their employees. Money only stops circulating through the economy when people that are wealthy enough to have a huge excess of it get their hands on it. This government tends to direct it into the accounts of that wealthy portion of the population who stash it where it will earn them interest.

By the same logic you are applying, why did the government subsidise the setup of Adani and offer many tax perks and various subsidies to mining when they employ a very small portion of the population.

It all just seems very short sighted. Ask the question of why during the GFC, was our economy one of the minority that flourished. The answer is simple to me. Rudd increased the tax three threshold by close to 200% for low income earners. That meant that instead of putting their money in a safe place, low income earners opened their wallets more happily. He set up deals that allowed many businesses to keep the doors open. One example was in giving tax breaks to businesses that bought new vehicles. He applied the polar opposite economic strategy to what our current government have been using for decades. By ensuring that money is in the hands of people who will spend it, it keeps moving, generating tax with every set of hands it flows through.
 

Dawgfather

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By the same logic you are applying, why did the government subsidise the setup of Adani and offer many tax perks and various subsidies to mining when they employ a very small portion of the population.
economic strategy to what our current government have been using for decades. By ensuring that money is in the hands of people who will spend it, it keeps moving, generating tax with every set of hands it flows through.
I'm fine if the Aussie government made a point of getting manufacturing including automotive going again in this country, but you don't do that by just splashing out billions in cash. You need to make significant adjustments to the tax system, free trade agreements and all sorts of areas of the economy.

But if you aren't going to do the above (which is the case), then my argument is remove any subsidies immediately. THey are totally wasted and you are better spending the cash on re-skilling the HOlden work force so they are employable when they leave.

On the topic of Adani, it doesn't really need much explaining. Mining in Australia is a profitable business, it can* employ thousands of people (directly or indirectly) for a single mine, it returns money to the country through royalties paid to the government and it brings employment to regional areas of Australia where unemployment is often high.

*Yes the number of jobs created by the Adani mine can be disputed based on the final approved mine. I am sure the number of jobs would have been much larger, had the mine not had to go through so many years of stupid disputes and court cases.
 

CaptainJackson

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In the end the 250,000 jobs that are estimated to have disappeared as a result of the business going off shore will largely mean that they pay a lot more people on welfare. Those people have less money to help stimulate small business. This results in small business struggling and as a result those small businesses probably let some staff go. The economy is driven by the people at the bottom spending money. So that 2 billion would have kept moving through the businesses it stimulates. Every dollar spent keeping jobs in the country will flow back around. If that money went to a million different businesses, those businesses all pay tax on it. Every dollar spent by individuals is subject to the GST. The business owners pay further taxes on their disposable income as do their employees. Money only stops circulating through the economy when people that are wealthy enough to have a huge excess of it get their hands on it. This government tends to direct it into the accounts of that wealthy portion of the population who stash it where it will earn them interest.

By the same logic you are applying, why did the government subsidise the setup of Adani and offer many tax perks and various subsidies to mining when they employ a very small portion of the population.

It all just seems very short sighted. Ask the question of why during the GFC, was our economy one of the minority that flourished. The answer is simple to me. Rudd increased the tax three threshold by close to 200% for low income earners. That meant that instead of putting their money in a safe place, low income earners opened their wallets more happily. He set up deals that allowed many businesses to keep the doors open. One example was in giving tax breaks to businesses that bought new vehicles. He applied the polar opposite economic strategy to what our current government have been using for decades. By ensuring that money is in the hands of people who will spend it, it keeps moving, generating tax with every set of hands it flows through.
Top post Alan.

The fact is every car industry is subsidized by their local government. The fact was we were in fact one of the lowest rate of subsidy in the world for their car manufacturers. But that all changed when Abbott and Hockey pulled the rug out from car manufacturing and not only cost the jobs of those directly working in Holden, Ford and Toyota factories but also decimated the many small businesses that were also involved in the trade of car parts, etc.

So coupled with the Holden, Ford, Toyota factories and the many small businesses that relied on it, the Liberals cost a hell of lot more jobs than what the mining industry has. The obvious problem was that the execs of Holden, Ford and Toyota didn't slip enough into the pockets of the Liberals.

But the liberals are the party of business!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! yeh right.
 

Dawgfather

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Top post Alan.

The fact is every car industry is subsidized by their local government. The fact was we were in fact one of the lowest rate of subsidy in the world for their car manufacturers. But that all changed when Abbott and Hockey pulled the rug out from car manufacturing and not only cost the jobs of those directly working in Holden, Ford and Toyota factories but also decimated the many small businesses that were also involved in the trade of car parts, etc.

So coupled with the Holden, Ford, Toyota factories and the many small businesses that relied on it, the Liberals cost a hell of lot more jobs than what the mining industry has. The obvious problem was that the execs of Holden, Ford and Toyota didn't slip enough into the pockets of the Liberals.

But the liberals are the party of business!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! yeh right.
The automotive industry was fkd up the ass well before the liberals got into power. The issue raised it's head when GIllard was in power from memory.

For the record, I don't think the liberals are much better. Both Labor and Liberal are both establishment parties and both generally just going with the status quo and don't like to make big changes.
 
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