How will you measure success in 2020

DinkumDog

Kennel Immortal
2 x Gilded
Joined
May 15, 2017
Messages
22,711
Reaction score
41,541
We couldn't buy players because they had interest from other clubs and we don't want to pay overs (or at least a significant amount). Pay has come out and said he wants another three to four DWZ's (a quote very similar to this) and has said we need a Hooker, Centre and Prop. The only thing I'm head scratching about is how we're going to spend the salary cap for 2021 since we haven't made any signings for then (at least that we know of). If we were just to retain our squad and add a couple of "DWZ signings" we're no where near spending 95% of our cap.
Remember also that some players from the existing squad can possibly earn upgrades going into 2021 and beyond. So it's not all about who we recruit for 2021 - it's also who we retain and what we pay them going forward. I won't speculate on names or numbers but I can think of at least 3 players in the current squad who could earn an upgrade going into 2021 depending on how they perform in 2020. For now there is no pressure to have allocated the 2021 cap at all.
 

wendog33

Kennel Immortal
Premium Member
Ladder Champion
Joined
Aug 6, 2016
Messages
24,798
Reaction score
27,995
The salary cap contracted payments are double audited, firstly by the club itself supported by a statutory declaration signed by the Directors and then by the NRL auditor, plus professional sports people are always on the ATO hit list. We have to spend 95% of the Cap every year and we have complied with that otherwise we would be being fined and that would be heavily reported on.

To answer your question, at the time when the current guys on back ended contracts were in their lower $ years there were other players in the years of their higher $ contracts, eg; Eastwood in 2018, Mozzies in 2018, Reynolds 2017, Klemmer 2018, Mbye 2017/18, Graham 2017 etc.

Thats' why it hard to offload a player in the last year of a 3 year contract where they are in the higher paying back end of their contract. For example, if a player is on, say, $1.8m for 3 years, meaning he is on an average $600k (which may well be his market worth) per year, but if he is on $900k in his last year no other club is going to take him off our hands and pay him $300k over market value. Understandably they would want us to pay the over market value for that year. Legally I'm not sure how we can pay them after their contract with us has expired. For obvious reasons NRL players aren't allowed to have registered NRL contracts with and be paid simultaneously by 2 different clubs. We could pay the other club but I'm not sure how that would included in our salary cap and excluded from theirs. Because in the end what's included in the Salary Cap is the only thing that is important, to us anyway as we have no shortage of money. May not be the same for cash strapped clubs.

The concept of back ended contracts is that in any one year you have, say, half of your players on less than half of their market value (worth). So you have, say, a $13m team whose contracts for that year total only $9.6m and as a result win the premiership. The idea then is to offload players (premiership winning players) in the middle years when their contract is around their market value (worth). Then start the back ended contracts merry go round all over again with a new batch of players. The problem for us was we didn't win the premiership, so no one wanted the players we needed to offload, as a result they stuck around until the latter years of their contracts where they were on way more than their market value (worth). Why should they leave and give up the pay back for the sacrifices that they made in the early years of their contract.

The back ended contract effect lasts for longer than the 3 or 4 years typical player contract term. For it to work there has to me a mixture of players in their early (lower paid) years whilst others are in their later (higher paid) years. When it all falls apart, as it did for us in 2018, then it's at best a 3 year repair and even that depends on good management to stay under the cap, especially in the 2nd and 3rd years. That's why 2021 is the year that we get to play with a full deck of cards.

Happy New Year to All
Go Dogs
You are the only one who has picked up on my question....if we have all these players, 7 or more, now on their last year of backdated contracts and a couple we are paying to play elsewhere then...

Who the hell was getting the big bucks in our sc adding up to 8.5 to 9 mill in the previous 3-4 years while Hoppa, JJ, Tolman etc were on low ball figures.

Some have said Eastwood, Mozz' etc.

Still doesn't add up cos our roster was still only Top 10 quality by comparison.

We must have been paying overs for years and years.
 

bradyk

Kennel Immortal
Premium Member
2 x NF H2H Champ
NF Top Scorer
Joined
Mar 24, 2019
Messages
15,756
Reaction score
18,945
You are the only one who has picked up on my question....if we have all these players, 7 or more, now on their last year of backdated contracts and a couple we are paying to play elsewhere then...

Who the hell was getting the big bucks in our sc adding up to 8.5 to 9 mill in the previous 3-4 years while Hoppa, JJ, Tolman etc were on low ball figures.

Some have said Eastwood, Mozz' etc.

Still doesn't add up cos our roster was still only Top 10 quality by comparison.

We must have been paying overs for years and years.
I'm not sure what you mean to be honest.

https://www.nrl.com/draw/nrl-premiership/2017/round-1/bulldogs-vs-storm/
https://www.nrl.com/draw/nrl-premiership/2018/round-1/bulldogs-vs-storm/

These would of been the players involved.
 

albatross

Kennel Enthusiast
Joined
Feb 3, 2017
Messages
2,210
Reaction score
2,564
You are the only one who has picked up on my question....if we have all these players, 7 or more, now on their last year of backdated contracts and a couple we are paying to play elsewhere then...

Who the hell was getting the big bucks in our sc adding up to 8.5 to 9 mill in the previous 3-4 years while Hoppa, JJ, Tolman etc were on low ball figures.

Some have said Eastwood, Mozz' etc.

Still doesn't add up cos our roster was still only Top 10 quality by comparison.

We must have been paying overs for years and years.
I don't have evidence but I suspect we paid overs for just about everyone, rather than big big dollars to just two or three players. On the basis we thought the cap was going to increase much more, I'd say we signed blokes like Holland, Montoya and Elliott for way too much.

If not that, then I'm with you - where did the bloody money go?
 

Natboy

Banned
Premium Member
SC H2H Champion
SC Top Scorer
Joined
Aug 11, 2019
Messages
8,945
Reaction score
11,608
You are the only one who has picked up on my question....if we have all these players, 7 or more, now on their last year of backdated contracts and a couple we are paying to play elsewhere then...

Who the hell was getting the big bucks in our sc adding up to 8.5 to 9 mill in the previous 3-4 years while Hoppa, JJ, Tolman etc were on low ball figures.

Some have said Eastwood, Mozz' etc.

Still doesn't add up cos our roster was still only Top 10 quality by comparison.

We must have been paying overs for years and years.
I picked up on your question but just thought the answer was common sense sorry. Look at who Des recruited and the stupid money they were clearly on.
Unfortunately some here want us to be that reckless and foolish again. Personally, I’d rather be more patient so we never have to go through this again
 

Spoonman84

Kennel Immortal
Premium Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2013
Messages
17,736
Reaction score
31,795
You are the only one who has picked up on my question....if we have all these players, 7 or more, now on their last year of backdated contracts and a couple we are paying to play elsewhere then...

Who the hell was getting the big bucks in our sc adding up to 8.5 to 9 mill in the previous 3-4 years while Hoppa, JJ, Tolman etc were on low ball figures.

Some have said Eastwood, Mozz' etc.

Still doesn't add up cos our roster was still only Top 10 quality by comparison.

We must have been paying overs for years and years.
With the backloading you just have to forget about the quality of players or roster that doesn’t come into it. It’s basically like using a credit card and we never paid the bill until now. As soon as you backload more then a couple of players you basically have to do the whole roster. So every player that is in the final year of their contract is getting huge money after going through 2 or 3 years of getting paid peanuts. Even a player getting $200k on 2 year deal could bite us if they were only got $100k in the first year then we had to pay $300k for the last year. If you do that with enough players it adds up very very quickly.
 

Shire Dog

Kennel Enthusiast
Joined
Jan 9, 2017
Messages
3,066
Reaction score
4,303
I find it a bit difficult to really say what is a good year or not until the end.
Last year we barely missed out on the top eight but can’t say I was happy watching them play in general
The last minute spurt at season end is not a reasonable yard stick
In my opinion the level of footy across the majority of teams was low in 2019
This in some way made us look even better than what we were
Realistically the dogs might struggle if the competition is of a higher caliber in 2020
I attend every game thinking we can & should win (crazy)
 

Shire Dog

Kennel Enthusiast
Joined
Jan 9, 2017
Messages
3,066
Reaction score
4,303
With the backloading you just have to forget about the quality of players or roster that doesn’t come into it. It’s basically like using a credit card and we never paid the bill until now. As soon as you backload more then a couple of players you basically have to do the whole roster. So every player that is in the final year of their contract is getting huge money after going through 2 or 3 years of getting paid peanuts. Even a player getting $200k on 2 year deal could bite us if they were only got $100k in the first year then we had to pay $300k for the last year. If you do that with enough players it adds up very very quickly.
This salary cap has been and still is a huge saga
It feels like there is no end in sight sometimes
 

Spoonman84

Kennel Immortal
Premium Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2013
Messages
17,736
Reaction score
31,795
This salary cap has been and still is a huge saga
It feels like there is no end in sight sometimes
It’s definitely over at the end of 2020 there’s no more contracts that were signed under Dib or Des thankfully.
 

bradyk

Kennel Immortal
Premium Member
2 x NF H2H Champ
NF Top Scorer
Joined
Mar 24, 2019
Messages
15,756
Reaction score
18,945
I find it a bit difficult to really say what is a good year or not until the end.
Last year we barely missed out on the top eight but can’t say I was happy watching them play in general
The last minute spurt at season end is not a reasonable yard stick
In my opinion the level of footy across the majority of teams was low in 2019
This in some way made us look even better than what we were
Realistically the dogs might struggle if the competition is of a higher caliber in 2020
I attend every game thinking we can & should win (crazy)
Thinking we can win isn't crazy. Thinking we should win is crazy :tonguewink:.
 

bradyk

Kennel Immortal
Premium Member
2 x NF H2H Champ
NF Top Scorer
Joined
Mar 24, 2019
Messages
15,756
Reaction score
18,945
It’s definitely over at the end of 2020 there’s no more contracts that were signed under Dib or Des thankfully.
It still affects us for years to come regarding recruitment. If we're going to continue recruiting like we currently have been it's going to take a few seasons after this one to be competitive for the eight (it's going to take time bringing in talent that'll make a difference unlike the Knights rebuild where they just spent all their money to get who they wanted straight up - positives and negatives to both). I'm not talking about where you think we'll finish but where other people without an attachment are placing us to finish. Outside perception. That's what determines how easy or hard it is to recruit (what do other players in the NRL think of us compared to other clubs?). It's looking like we're going to let our results/success do the talking instead of money which in our current situation is going to take time.
 

Spoonman84

Kennel Immortal
Premium Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2013
Messages
17,736
Reaction score
31,795
It still affects us for years to come regarding recruitment. If we're going to continue recruiting like we currently have been it's going to take a few seasons after this one to be competitive for the eight (it's going to take time bringing in talent that'll make a difference unlike the Knights rebuild where they just spent all their money to get who they wanted straight up - positives and negatives to both). I'm not talking about where you think we'll finish but where other people without an attachment are placing us to finish. Outside perception. That's what determines how easy or hard it is to recruit (what do other players in the NRL think of us compared to other clubs?). It's looking like we're going to let our results/success do the talking instead of money which in our current situation is going to take time.
That’s a completely different issue to backloading deals though which is what I was talking about. The last backloaded deal expires at the end of 2020 and then when have full cap freedom.
 

Dawain87

Kennel Enthusiast
Joined
Aug 23, 2016
Messages
1,272
Reaction score
2,215
we are better than half the teams in the comp- should be in the top 8 or just out.
 

DinkumDog

Kennel Immortal
2 x Gilded
Joined
May 15, 2017
Messages
22,711
Reaction score
41,541
I find it a bit difficult to really say what is a good year or not until the end.
Last year we barely missed out on the top eight but can’t say I was happy watching them play in general
The last minute spurt at season end is not a reasonable yard stick
In my opinion the level of footy across the majority of teams was low in 2019
This in some way made us look even better than what we were
Realistically the dogs might struggle if the competition is of a higher caliber in 2020
I attend every game thinking we can & should win (crazy)
It’s not crazy mate, it’s supporting your team and good on you for doing so. I’m at almost all games as well (certainly all Sydney games) and I believe the team needs our support in good times and bad. Hopefully it won’t be long and the big crowds will be back (a mix of true believers and some fair-weathers) chanting ‘BULLDOGS!’... I agree a few teams look a bit average and that’s one of the reasons I believe we can make the 8 this year.
 

bradyk

Kennel Immortal
Premium Member
2 x NF H2H Champ
NF Top Scorer
Joined
Mar 24, 2019
Messages
15,756
Reaction score
18,945
That’s a completely different issue to backloading deals though which is what I was talking about. The last backloaded deal expires at the end of 2020 and then when have full cap freedom.
Right but we're going to be still carrying that going into 2021 due to what happened with our salary cap and back ending deals. We're still going to be facing difficulties. This is the main one the comes to mind for me. This is more due to lack of success tho (it could of been for any reason really). We're somewhere between the Titans/Warriors and Tigers/Dragons/Knights/Cowboys. Those clubs have a lot in common regarding how they recruit talent too (something a lot of people fear we'll do but we need to stand out somehow?). We're obviously going to be in a better position then we're currently tho with the back ended contracts and paying players to play elsewhere ending.
 
Last edited:

Spoonman84

Kennel Immortal
Premium Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2013
Messages
17,736
Reaction score
31,795
Right but we're going to be still carrying that going into 2021 due to what happened with our salary cap and back ending deals. We're still going to be facing difficulties. This is the main one the comes to mind for me. This is more due to lack of success tho (it could of been for any reason really).
Not really at the end of 2020 backloaded deals have absolutely no impact at all. There might be other issues getting recruits but backloaded deals isn’t one.
 

bradyk

Kennel Immortal
Premium Member
2 x NF H2H Champ
NF Top Scorer
Joined
Mar 24, 2019
Messages
15,756
Reaction score
18,945
Not really at the end of 2020 backloaded deals have absolutely no impact at all. There might be other issues getting recruits but backloaded deals isn’t one.
I'm not sure if you're reading my posts but the after effect remains regarding recruitment moving forward. They're linked. The same reasons why we missed out on more signings similar to DWZ will be there.
 

Spoonman84

Kennel Immortal
Premium Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2013
Messages
17,736
Reaction score
31,795
I'm not sure if you're reading my posts but the after effect remains regarding recruitment moving forward. They're linked.
How are deals that finish in 2020 linked to anything after 2020?
 
Top