Opinion Foran - Burgess - Salary Cap relief and exemption fiasco

Downtowndog

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As everyone knows the NRL has granted the Rabbitohs 1.2m salary cap relief.

We are stuck with a crippled Foran with no relief whatsoever.

I absolutely understand people's frustration with our situation with Foran, ALL which i agree with! I never wanted Foran at our club due to his physical state. It was obvious for all to see that he was damaged goods beyond any sort of repairs.

People are calling the Sam Burgess situation as a rort, though is it really a rort on the NRL's behalf??

Burgess along with Inglis received the medical reports to wipe them out of the game, masterminded by Sir Wayne Bennett. No-one knows whether Inglis and Burgess could continue playing broken, but one thing that is certain, they could not continue playing at the high levels week in week out as there salaries commanded. The most difficult aspect is none of this can be proved right or wrong, at the end of the day it's the medical profession that has ticked the required boxes (right or wrong)

Inglis and Burgess, never came out in public demanding that they would battle through rehab to get back or not contemplate retirement. They never came out at all. It was only Sir Wayne who would come out here and there and talk in riddles.

This is not Waynes first or last player who was forced into retirement. What is evident, is when one of Wayne's high profile players are not performing as per salary due to injuries, they are gone. Once again, this cannot be proved.

What's the issue with Foran and why are the NRL playing favourites, everyone asks?

Foran has come out on numerous occassions stating that he will not retire and that he has another 3-4 years left in him, yadda, yadda, yadda.

What can our club do or the NRL, if Foran has come out to the public with these statements?

It is definitely a hard pill to swallow and i understand everyones frustration.

You look at Wayne with decades worth of experience across all aspects of the game, as well as being highly respected by former and current players. Wayne is persuasive and players listen.

If Foran was playing at a club coached by Wayne, do you think Foran would come out in public anouncing that he has no ambitions to retire, or would of Wayne persuaded Foran to retire at full reimbursement?

I got no idea what sort of communication there was between our club and Foran once Foran was injured in the test, but he sure did come out quick smart to shoot down the retirement murmurs.

It is absolutely frustrating as fuck, but try thinking with a cool head and tell me, what the fuck can we do?
 

xreedmatic

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The simple answer is that we are fucked till November 2020 and there is nothing more we can do.

Bite our tongues and move on
 

Spoonman84

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You are way off with Inglis that’s a 100% rort. Inglis was never medically retired the NRL just allowed Souths to give him a job paying $300k a year with that counting on the cap the rest of his salary was taken off. No team or player had ever been granted that type of deal.
 

Psycho Doggie

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Good summation. This is almost certainly something that is known within the top grade RL circles. One thing the club could do is promote the view within those circles that players who go to Souffs won't get any love if they have injury issues. This view could drive up the price Souffs have to pay for players, if not turn some players away.
 

B-Train

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Release him... At least we'd get a squad spot back.

He's well and truly worn out his welcome with the club. He's admitted he hasn't provided value for money. His refusal to co-operate with the club and delay his return date til past round 12 while being so public about it all should be the final straw.
 

Spoonman84

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Release him... At least we'd get a squad spot back.

He's well and truly worn out his welcome with the club. He's admitted he hasn't provided value for money. His refusal to co-operate with the club and delay his return date til past round 12 while being so public about it all should be the final straw.
The return date isn’t really a big deal when you consider who is available in the open market. There isn’t a half out there that’s going to make a difference for $350k.
 

Kennelnator

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Put him in a induced coma and wake him up November 2nd, 2020
 

wendog33

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As everyone knows the NRL has granted the Rabbitohs 1.2m salary cap relief.

We are stuck with a crippled Foran with no relief whatsoever.

I absolutely understand people's frustration with our situation with Foran, ALL which i agree with! I never wanted Foran at our club due to his physical state. It was obvious for all to see that he was damaged goods beyond any sort of repairs.

People are calling the Sam Burgess situation as a rort, though is it really a rort on the NRL's behalf??

Burgess along with Inglis received the medical reports to wipe them out of the game, masterminded by Sir Wayne Bennett. No-one knows whether Inglis and Burgess could continue playing broken, but one thing that is certain, they could not continue playing at the high levels week in week out as there salaries commanded. The most difficult aspect is none of this can be proved right or wrong, at the end of the day it's the medical profession that has ticked the required boxes (right or wrong)

Inglis and Burgess, never came out in public demanding that they would battle through rehab to get back or not contemplate retirement. They never came out at all. It was only Sir Wayne who would come out here and there and talk in riddles.

This is not Waynes first or last player who was forced into retirement. What is evident, is when one of Wayne's high profile players are not performing as per salary due to injuries, they are gone. Once again, this cannot be proved.

What's the issue with Foran and why are the NRL playing favourites, everyone asks?

Foran has come out on numerous occassions stating that he will not retire and that he has another 3-4 years left in him, yadda, yadda, yadda.

What can our club do or the NRL, if Foran has come out to the public with these statements?

It is definitely a hard pill to swallow and i understand everyones frustration.

You look at Wayne with decades worth of experience across all aspects of the game, as well as being highly respected by former and current players. Wayne is persuasive and players listen.

If Foran was playing at a club coached by Wayne, do you think Foran would come out in public anouncing that he has no ambitions to retire, or would of Wayne persuaded Foran to retire at full reimbursement?

I got no idea what sort of communication there was between our club and Foran once Foran was injured in the test, but he sure did come out quick smart to shoot down the retirement murmurs.

It is absolutely frustrating as fuck, but try thinking with a cool head and tell me, what the fuck can we do?
Get Wayne? ;)
 

B-Train

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The return date isn’t really a big deal when you consider who is available in the open market. There isn’t a half out there that’s going to make a difference for $350k.
I agree there isn't much out there worth signing. It's the principle though...

Even so, the club would still have been pursuing a cap allowance if he agreed to sit out til round 12. Which he probably should to rehab his shoulder properly anyway.
 

NPC83

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he’s body is poo... I can’t imagine a doctor would let him back before round 12...
 

Spoonman84

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I agree there isn't much out there worth signing. It's the principle though...

Even so, the club would still have been pursuing a cap allowance if he agreed to sit out til round 12. Which he probably should to rehab his shoulder properly anyway.
That’s just Foran saying that though the club’s press release said a lot longer then that. I’m sure if the club had a player that they wanted to use the compensation on they would sort it out.
 

bradyk

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One retired, one didn't. There isn't a comparison. It's a different situation. The NRL would be breaking/bending/changing the rules for us. I can only blame the people who put Foran on the contract he has. I'm not going to take away his ability to continue playing for my own selfishness.
 

battered sav

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Do a deal with Foran to pay him 350 000 next season if he agrees to make a come back after round 12. Then renege.
 

hayes

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Not all the medical reports are completed yet won't be until mid to late Dec. Only after rehabilitation plan can be made these update every four weeks until completetion. So early Jan they should know estimated return. The plans are serval months after completion.

I don't see foran ever playing again for Canterbury.
 

Mr. Ditkovich

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Him retiring isn’t the rort. This is:

Souths signed him with full public knowledge of his shoulder problems. He retired due to that same shoulder being injured.

Under the NRL’s rules, a player cannot be medically retired for a preexisting injury, or any injury directly related to it.

So Souths have gone out and signed a player on big money, knowing the risk, and now they just get to retire him with full cap exemption.

Here’s a hypothetical situation of the precedent now set. Take for example Slater. Say he injured his shoulder in 2015 and again in 2018, requiring reconstruction, and he’s a big risk to reinjure it by playing again. Roosters need a fullback and want to entice him to leave Melbourne, so they offer him 1.5m for 4 seasons. He injured his should in the first season playing for them, after getting them to the grand final, and now they can just get him off the cap and Slater still gets his money, thus a win win for both the club, who has a premiership, and Slater, who gets $6m for 1 season.

That’s the rort.
 

coach

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Helps when burgess stays on with the club in a “role” for undisclosed amount
Straight up rort
 

TwinTurbo

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Since this thread is nothing more than a rehash of several others, please excuse the somewhat repetitive response;
Burgess can't lift his arm above shoulder height (as I have personally witnessed), there is no way he will ever play NRL again, the bone work around his shoulder is beyond medical science to repair. Plainly (as much as we may not like it) his case complies with the 5 requirements for medical retirement.

The Inglis situation is rather different, from what I can piece together from several conversations, both he and the Wabbits have agreed to terminate his contract effective immediately. They also have medical opinions that he is no longer mentally capable of playing NRL. But I don't believe that his retirement is "medically" based, it is simply a case where both sides have agreed to abandon the playing contract. There is plenty of precedent for that, our own Zappy is one that comes to mind.

A reminder of the 5 requirements;
For a player to be medically retired there are 5 things required for sign off;
1. The club has to submit him to the NRL as being eligible to be being medically retired.
2. The player has to agree with the clubs submission and personally request to be medially retired.
3. The club's medical staff and any external specialists have to sign off that he is unable to continue playing, ever.
4. The NRL's appointed medical consultants, after assessing the clubs submission, have to agree and provide their opinion to the NRL.
5. The NRL, considering the available data, has to agree that the players meets the requirements for medical retirement.
In any comparison to Burgess it's plainly obvious to everyone that Foran doesn't want to retire. Plus our medical staff and the best shoulder specialist around believe that there is no reason why he can't continue to play. The NRL medical consultants are extremely unlikely to disagree, hence the NRL would not grant permission for medical retirement.

The real issue with Foran is no one really knows exactly how long it is going to take for him to recover from the shoulder surgeries. That's "fully recover" to be able to play NRL games. Based on past experience he is a fast recover-er, whether that is metabolism and/or his dedication to doing whatever physio is required. This is no real precedent, since this is the first year of the NRL providing salary cap relief for 12 rounds, or is it 12 "games", missed and does it include trials. This is the first obvious flaw in the process, knowing 5/6 months in advance whether the player is out for 12 rounds/games or not? What's the answer, the NRL waits until the 12 games passes and then we get granted salary cap relief? That's pretty stupid, as by then we won't need any cap relief as he will be back playing. Then what exactly is the answer, I see only one, we agree to stand him down for the 12 games whether he needs that long or not. That's the discussions/negotiations that should be going on with the NRL right now.

The second obvious flaw in the process is the amount of money relieved from the cap, 12 games is next to half season, so surely the more appropriate amount is half his season's contract value. Not hard to determine, after all the NRL has a copy of his contract.

Lastly, from what I have been able to research, we have "kept back" a similar amount as what we did last year (that enabled us to grab DWZ) which is the NRL allowed 5% of the salary cap (ie; $9.8m x 5% = $490k). With $350k of relief added to that we have up to $865k to spend on a replacement. More than enough to secure any talent that is available.


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