Opinion Dogged division over player dividends

albatross

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When you have a coach (brown) who puts him on a pedestal and says lines like “my wife can coach Ponga” would you hear a Trent Robinson, madge, Bellamy say that about their stars? Don’t think so... even Adam O’Brien came out and said Ponga has a lot to learn... that’s how a proper coach should be talking about their stars, keep em grounded
Agree they need to be kept well and truly grounded, not ass-kissed. Also I don't think any potentially great young player would want a coach who basically admits he can't teach him anything.
 

Chris Harding

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The consensus is that every, more talented than what we already have player will add to the squad though and it's just not the case. Especially with the entitled attitudes of most of the youth these days.

Not saying we won't have to pay overs for elite talent, just saying that when we eventually do, I trust the t's will be crossed and the i's dotted to ensure that they are fitting the mould and not a detraction from the playing group.

Can't even fault the club for not paying overs for Mitchell, Ramien and Scott and anyone like them. Doesnt matter if we need to strengthen x position.
Don't need players who have bad habits we need players who instill good ones.
Agree. The risk of carrying a high profile passenger, who is just there to look good when it counts, is very real.

Watching a star drift in and out of the game while the rest of the side has to make up for his lapses of concentration, time off for niggling injuries, and while he is away playing his best football for the State or Kangaroos (when he seems to miraculously recover from said injuries), has an impact on the players busting their guts every week for a fraction of his money.

Then he is likely to demand an early release from the club, and we wind up watching him play for the Broncos or Roosters while we pick up half his salary.
 

wendog33

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Agree. The risk of carrying a high profile passenger, who is just there to look good when it counts, is very real.

Watching a star drift in and out of the game while the rest of the side has to make up for his lapses of concentration, time off for niggling injuries, and while he is away playing his best football for the State or Kangaroos (when he seems to miraculously recover from said injuries), has an impact on the players busting their guts every week for a fraction of his money.

Then he is likely to demand an early release from the club, and we wind up watching him play for the Broncos or Roosters while we pick up half his salary.
Just wondering how you reckon the boys felt the impact of Fiz for the past 2 seasons?
 

bradtalo

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Depends on the player. You can't paint all stars with the same brush. SBW they say changed the culture when he joined the Roosters. He was a role model to others in training practices / attitude. Elite players are usually elite players because they put in extra and train harder than average players. When we bought Napa, I along with many others on here thought he was a tool but he now seems to really enjoy the wins with our boys and the rest of the team especially Elliott really enjoy playing with him.

I also have serious doubts that our recruitment team are better than the others working for the 15 other NRL teams in their ability to identify future star players. But say there's a young player everyone is after, why would they sign with us ahead of a team like the Roosters where they can train with more successful coaches and learn from the best super star players ? Most young leading players tend to sign with the Roosters now already.

Also even if we're lucky enough to discover a great young player what's to stop him leaving for a more successful team like the Roosters the next season to play finals regularly etc that will improve their game ? Only thing would be more money so we'd be paying overs again to keep our own good players - exactly the same as if we had bought an established super star from another team. Only benefit we get is from the first break out season.
 

bradtalo

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Agree. The risk of carrying a high profile passenger, who is just there to look good when it counts, is very real.

Watching a star drift in and out of the game while the rest of the side has to make up for his lapses of concentration, time off for niggling injuries, and while he is away playing his best football for the State or Kangaroos (when he seems to miraculously recover from said injuries), has an impact on the players busting their guts every week for a fraction of his money.

Then he is likely to demand an early release from the club, and we wind up watching him play for the Broncos or Roosters while we pick up half his salary.
Seriously you don't want any of our players to be good enough to make rep teams ? Yes extending players like Chris Smith that's a great plan to win a comp.

Can't believe you're finding ways to justify it's better to have an average player than a player who can actually win games for us (someone like Semi Radradra for example). If you'd rather have a whole team of Chris Smith's rather than a team full of Smith type players with 1 or 2 Radradra's then no wonder our team is average and not winning comps.
 
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bradtalo

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All that Canterbury identity crap is 1990s talk mate, sorry...

I’ll put it quite simple here for you, I get your point about paying overs for rubbish characters... I really do, but what has frustrated me more then anything is the fact that we were meant to be signing the best young talent in the game, which the board actually stated they would, now with the talent that has come up this year... this has not happened.

to name a few;

briton nikore
Bronson xerri
Mika sivo
Thomas miekele
Stefano ukeimalono


Bargain buys like;
Waqa Blake
Campbell Gillard

all we have coughed up is meaney and cogger, two players the knights didn’t deem good enough.


All I remember is this quote;
We will be scouting talent from Fiji, Samoa, Tonga and all other bases to ensure the best talent comes to Canterbury bulldogs, I’m not board bashing but so far that quite has just transitioned into fluff..
and last year we won the comp in ISP (reserve grade) and what did we do - we let go of several of the best players including Josh Cleeland and Grand Final Man of the Match Zac Woolford and also our ISP Player of the Year Lachlan Burr to the Warriors who played mostly first grade for them this year.

What's the use of having great players and winning comps in lower grades if we let some of the best players go ?
 

DinkumDog

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Just wondering how you reckon the boys felt the impact of Fiz for the past 2 seasons?
Perhaps the impact is less pronounced in that case.

- A number of back-ended contracts see a few players on large salaries. Maybe not as large as KF, but the gap is likely smaller and for fewer.

- Apart from his recent injury KF hasn’t played rep footy for a while - only the Dogs or on the sideline, so no-one could begrudge perhaps questionable consistent effort at club level and stepping up at rep level.

- Despite KF’s questionable belief that he’ll make it back - his commitment and belief are there for all to see (assuming sincerity and not taking the cynical view for the money). He’s publicly stated that he doesn’t think he’s given the Dogs bang for buck. You won’t find some other prima donnas saying that.
 

wendog33

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Perhaps the impact is less pronounced in that case.

- A number of back-ended contracts see a few players on large salaries. Maybe not as large as KF, but the gap is likely smaller and for fewer.

- Apart from his recent injury KF hasn’t played rep footy for a while - only the Dogs or on the sideline, so no-one could begrudge perhaps questionable consistent effort at club level and stepping up at rep level.

- Despite KF’s questionable belief that he’ll make it back - his commitment and belief are there for all to see (assuming sincerity and not taking the cynical view for the money). He’s publicly stated that he doesn’t think he’s given the Dogs bang for buck. You won’t find some other prima donnas saying that.
I'm glad there's some positive feelings to take out of the situation then ;)
 

Natboy

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and last year we won the comp in ISP (reserve grade) and what did we do - we let go of several of the best players including Josh Cleeland and Grand Final Man of the Match Zac Woolford and also our ISP Player of the Year Lachlan Burr to the Warriors who played mostly first grade for them this year.

What's the use of having great players and winning comps in lower grades if we let some of the best players go ?
Great players? You realise there is a big jump between Canterbury cup and first grade don’t you? I don’t remember seeing any of those great players on stage collecting a Dally M this year
 

CrittaMagic69

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Great players? You realise there is a big jump between Canterbury cup and first grade don’t you? I don’t remember seeing any of those great players on stage collecting a Dally M this year
Tbf we should never have let Burr go, all he wanted was a spot in the 30 and the club couldn't even offer him that. Instead we went out and recruited Sue on probably more coin instead of rewarding a player that performed in the lower grades.
 

DinkumDog

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Tbf we should never have let Burr go, all he wanted was a spot in the 30 and the club couldn't even offer him that. Instead we went out and recruited Sue on probably more coin instead of rewarding a player that performed in the lower grades.
Agree. Likely down to McDonnell with the Tigers connection at the time. I’ve seen very little value from Sue despite his injury.
 

Natboy

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Tbf we should never have let Burr go, all he wanted was a spot in the 30 and the club couldn't even offer him that. Instead we went out and recruited Sue on probably more coin instead of rewarding a player that performed in the lower grades.
It would’ve been good to keep him being a local junior too. Who knows what he was offered by the warriors. Isn’t he a second rower though?
 

Teddybear

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Here's the thing...

If their theory/ philosophy / strategy/ is we won't pay overs for any player or pay a 1m for a marquee player, yet they say we focus on junior development and the mid north coast right? This is their excuse or road to success...

Well what if they use the same theory/ philosophy / strategy at junior development.

Why did Francis talau leave, it's not as if we are stacked with superstars for the centre position? The kid that went to the tigers...did he get more money ?

No we won't sign him, and we wont sign that other guy either....we have a ceiling on what we pay?? So then you get no stars at the top end and no stars at the grass roots.

We will end up with a solid
Pub side for first grade, but hey we have our governance and salary cap in place, good governance doesn't necessarily mean success !!
Depends on the player. You can't paint all stars with the same brush. SBW they say changed the culture when he joined the Roosters. He was a role model to others in training practices / attitude. Elite players are usually elite players because they put in extra and train harder than average players. When we bought Napa, I along with many others on here thought he was a tool but he now seems to really enjoy the wins with our boys and the rest of the team especially Elliott really enjoy playing with him.

I also have serious doubts that our recruitment team are better than the others working for the 15 other NRL teams in their ability to identify future star players. But say there's a young player everyone is after, why would they sign with us ahead of a team like the Roosters where they can train with more successful coaches and learn from the best super star players ? Most young leading players tend to sign with the Roosters now already.

Also even if we're lucky enough to discover a great young player what's to stop him leaving for a more successful team like the Roosters the next season to play finals regularly etc that will improve their game ? Only thing would be more money so we'd be paying overs again to keep our own good players - exactly the same as if we had bought an established super star from another team. Only benefit we get is from the first break out season.
 
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bradyk

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It would’ve been good to keep him being a local junior too. Who knows what he was offered by the warriors. Isn’t he a second rower though?
Last season was a mix between starting Lock and interchange Lock.
 

DinkumDog

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Here's the thing...

If their theory/ philosophy / strategy/ is we won't pay overs for any player or pay a 1m for a marquee player, yet they say we focus on junior development and the mid north coast right? This is their excuse or road to success...

Well what is they use the same theory/ philosophy / strategy at junior development.

No we won't sign him, we have a ceiling on what we pay?? So then you get no stars at the top end and no stars at the grass roots.

We will end up with a solid
Pub side for first grade, but hey we have our governance and salary cap in place, good governance doesn't necessarily mean success !!
I don't think that's the case (won't spend more).
And I don't buy that the directors would be striving for mediocrity - no way.
I think it's much more about timing as well as right fit.
Uncle Nick recently said the Chooks were 75% home grown and they're selective with who they buy (eg: Teddy/Cronk).
I'd suggest we're on a similar trajectory - a higher reliance on breeding and selected purchases once the cap is clear (ie: season 2021).
This is the missing piece of the puzzle that some of us believe is in play and the ones who have a problem for every solution don't believe.
 

KLil

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Tbf we should never have let Burr go, all he wanted was a spot in the 30 and the club couldn't even offer him that. Instead we went out and recruited Sue on probably more coin instead of rewarding a player that performed in the lower grades.
And what if Burr was offered a bigger contract at the Warriors and the dogs couldn't match it?
 

wendog33

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I don't think that's the case (won't spend more).
And I don't buy that the directors would be striving for mediocrity - no way.
I think it's much more about timing as well as right fit.
Uncle Nick recently said the Chooks were 75% home grown and they're selective with who they buy (eg: Teddy/Cronk).
I'd suggest we're on a similar trajectory - a higher reliance on breeding and selected purchases once the cap is clear (ie: season 2021).
This is the missing piece of the puzzle that some of us believe is in play and the ones who have a problem for every solution don't believe.
I'm thinkin this is the plan. But is it enough? It means it will be a slow build up of the roster so no one better get any high hopes for Top 4 for at least 3-4 years really.
 

CrittaMagic69

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And what if Burr was offered a bigger contract at the Warriors and the dogs couldn't match it?
Because he wasn't.
 

CrittaMagic69

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It would’ve been good to keep him being a local junior too. Who knows what he was offered by the warriors. Isn’t he a second rower though?
Played through the middle and everything i've been told is that we couldn't find a spot for him so he left the club.
 
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