Have we forgotten one important factor ... ?

Trafford10

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The most important thing is that we start next season off well. There is no reason why we cant. If we play attractive footy and get a roll on, we will be an attractive prospect for potential signings. We all know contracts arent worth shit, that anything contract wise can come out of left field. Example DWZ. So called marque players have signed for lesser clubs in recent years ie Titans, Knights. We just need the off season to be better than the last 2 and we fire round 1 next year. The media and commentators will be lining up to lick Pays balls if we are top 4 six rounds in to next year. That will have an impact on potential signings.
How many times have you won tatts?
 

bradyk

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There is also a reason why Pay is our coach and not a top coach. No top coach would of touched us (and they didn't) due to the situation we're in. Would of been career suicide. If pay struggles from 2021 on wards that's when we'll get a new coach. Until then I don't think he's been given a fair chance at coaching. If we completely flop next year, wooden spoon, then maybe he doesn't get that last year.
 

bradyk

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The most important thing is that we start next season off well. There is no reason why we cant. If we play attractive footy and get a roll on, we will be an attractive prospect for potential signings. We all know contracts arent worth shit, that anything contract wise can come out of left field. Example DWZ. So called marque players have signed for lesser clubs in recent years ie Titans, Knights. We just need the off season to be better than the last 2 and we fire round 1 next year. The media and commentators will be lining up to lick Pays balls if we are top 4 six rounds in to next year. That will have an impact on potential signings.
So called marquee players don't sign for lesser clubs without money as an incentive. Also I wouldn't be holding your hopes for more DWZ signings. That was legit a miracle.
 

Trafford10

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Coach isn't a factor really. A team that's successful (factor one) will have a good coach or at least other people will think the coach is good. They're pretty much tangible. The other factor is money. Pay's done a terrific job with the roster he has. I'd say we over achieved last year. If Pay can finish outside the bottom four next season that's also satisfactory. 2021 is the season that I see us being competitive in the eight unless we don't recruit properly - we aren't going to be able to attract players using the successful factor. Also I'd like to say that the Knights (wooden spooners) and Nathan Brown (not a top coach) were able to attract Ponga, Pearce, Klemmer and plenty other players. They even recruit Brailey for next season someone that we could of really used for next season.
Yeah but at this stage nobody new has been signed for 2021 right?
Our squad for 2020 is I think marginally better than 2019 but I don't know yet how that marginally better squad for 2020 compares with the rest of the competition.
As long as I don't here "the team is training the house down" during pre-season I am fighting to stay optimistic.
 

bradyk

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Yeah but at this stage nobody new has been signed for 2021 right?
Our squad for 2020 is I think marginally better than 2019 but I don't know yet how that marginally better squad for 2020 compares with the rest of the competition.
As long as I don't here "the team is training the house down" during pre-season I am fighting to stay optimistic.
We've only made signings for 2020: Katoa, Stimson and Britt. I think in theory we have to be better then last season but so does every other club. I'll be placing us finishing 10th next season (based on heart) as is but I think that's optimistic already. Anything is possible just we need to be realistic with our expectations.
 

doggieaaron

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I actually like that we are working with these young players in fact i think we have some good talent coming through and the way we finished was very encouraging we were the form team in that last 2 months
 

NPC83

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Coach isn't a factor really. A team that's successful (factor one) will have a good coach or at least other people will think the coach is good. They're pretty much tangible. The other factor is money. Pay's done a terrific job with the roster he has. I'd say we over achieved last year. If Pay can finish outside the bottom four next season that's also satisfactory. 2021 is the season that I see us being competitive in the eight unless we don't recruit properly - we aren't going to be able to attract players using the successful factor. Also I'd like to say that the Knights (wooden spooners) and Nathan Brown (not a top coach) were able to attract Ponga, Pearce, Klemmer and plenty other players. They even recruit Brailey for next season someone that we could of really used for next season.
Money means a lot but there is plenty of examples of players going for the coach and the coaches ability to recruit, and a player staying with the club to be under a certain coach. Wayne Bennett, Craig Bellamy, Ricky Stuart, Trent Robinson.
 

Trafford10

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It's interesting to look at the number of changes. Only 6 of those players max will be in our 2020 Rd 1 team and, since then, Pay has blooded Reimus (pretty much), Lewis, Renouf, Okunbor, and even Harper and Wakeham have had a game (most were local juniors or developed at the club). JMK, Cogger and Meaney were also pretty green with little FG experience.

So it really is a new side that's got potential to keep improving just by the younger players getting more experience. The main problem I think, apart from a clear lack of speed in the squad, is there's no obvious game-breaking champions coming out of our young lot, and that's what we need. Wakeham looks sharp and Renouf has the potential to become a very good off-loading front rower, but the evidence is far from conclusive for either at this stage. Put simply, we need to find ways to score more tries to be more competitive next year and I still can't see where they might come from.

Even for 2021, we are gonna need strike power. We'd all prefer that to be in the form of a great half and/or dummy half or fullback, but I agree with those arguing for us to sign a marquee player asap, even if there's no decent spine players available. Not sure Lattrell is the right man to get in a bidding war over, but I'd be going hard for Fifita, even if we are stacked with backrowers. He would be a huge investment for the future and we can say goodbye to Elliott and Smith at the end of next year.
That round 1, 2018 team is stronger than what we will field round 1, 2020.

The major issue in the last two seasons is that the club completely missed the pre-season, the team started both seasons like a busted arse and both seasons were gone by round 14.

Hopefully Pay has learnt after two years how to get his team up and ready for round 1.
 
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bradyk

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Money means a lot but there is plenty of examples of players going for the coach and the coaches ability to recruit, and a player staying with the club to be under a certain coach. Wayne Bennett, Craig Bellamy, Ricky Stuart, Trent Robinson.
Give me examples. What club is the coach at. What position did the club finish the season before (success?). What club did the player move from. How much did the player move for (money?).
 

NPC83

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Give me examples. What club is the coach at. What position did the club finish the season before (success?). What club did the player move from. How much did the player move for (money?).
No hang on.... you said the coach isn’t really a factor and they are tangible... I don’t agree Wayne Bennett left Brisbane and Seibold with almost the same squad struggled.. plus multiple players followed Wayne. Down in Melbourne there are plenty of players who stayed for unders to be coaches by Bellamy and didn’t leave until near the end of their career eg Ryan Hoffman.
 

NPC83

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Give me examples. What club is the coach at. What position did the club finish the season before (success?). What club did the player move from. How much did the player move for (money?).
And an example of a player who stayed for less is Corey Parker for Brisbane. The coach is a factor 100%.
 

bradyk

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And an example of a player who stayed for less is Corey Parker for Brisbane. The coach is a factor 100%.
Tell me players who swapped. I can think of Jaydn Su'a who wasn't in the Broncos 17. I'm not talking about retaining. We need to get players here. Boyd followed Bennett to the Dragons, Knights and back to the Broncos. It's rare... I don't think players stay for unders. They stay for what they're worth and it's up to other clubs to offer them overs. Most of the coaches (and clubs) you've mentioned are successful.
 

DinkumDog

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There is also a reason why Pay is our coach and not a top coach. No top coach would of touched us (and they didn't) due to the situation we're in. Would of been career suicide. If pay struggles from 2021 on wards that's when we'll get a new coach. Until then I don't think he's been given a fair chance at coaching. If we completely flop next year, wooden spoon, then maybe he doesn't get that last year.
Right now Pay is only contracted for 2020.
There’s no guarantee he’ll be our coach in 2021. The board were shrewd enough to only extend him by one year and I’d think it will be fairly obvious by mid next season whether he’s earned an extension beyond 2020 or not.
 

bradyk

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Right now Pay is only contracted for 2020.
There’s no guarantee he’ll be our coach in 2021. The board were shrewd enough to only extend him by one year and I’d think it will be fairly obvious by mid next season whether he’s earned an extension beyond 2020 or not.
You're right. I thought he was contracted until the end of 2021 for some reason. I still thinks he deserves a chance with the 2021 roster unless next season is a massive flop (wooden spoon territory). If a top coach is available (e.g. Flanagan) we probably need to be savage tho.
 

DinkumDog

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Coach isn't a factor really. A team that's successful (factor one) will have a good coach or at least other people will think the coach is good. They're pretty much tangible. The other factor is money. Pay's done a terrific job with the roster he has. I'd say we over achieved last year. If Pay can finish outside the bottom four next season that's also satisfactory. 2021 is the season that I see us being competitive in the eight unless we don't recruit properly - we aren't going to be able to attract players using the successful factor. Also I'd like to say that the Knights (wooden spooners) and Nathan Brown (not a top coach) were able to attract Ponga, Pearce, Klemmer and plenty other players. They even recruit Brailey for next season someone that we could of really used for next season.
Despite attracting all that talent, the Knights still didn’t make the 8 in 2019 - so not quite sure of your point specifically here?
 

bradyk

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Despite attracting all that talent, the Knights still didn’t make the 8 in 2019 - so not quite sure of your point specifically here?
Tipped for top four throughout the season. Started the season tipped for top eight (not by me). They were a wooden spoon team which is lower then what we're. Look what a few marquee and decent signings did for them. They just lack leadership (also not a problem for us). I'm just saying a wooden spoon club and not a top coach was able to attract talent. Yes they did overpay. Even with Ponga at the time (he's worth more now). They also now have a larger pool of talent to recruit from without paying overs. I'm not sure what your point is I thought that was pretty straight forward. In theory we could buy the perfect players that we need and the team still doesn't click and goes backwards. Nothing is guaranteed. I assure you if we added one marquee player and three to four other good signings peoples perception of us would change. I only see two ways to get those players here (and one that we can't offer) so that's where we disagree I guess.
 
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DinkumDog

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Tipped for top four throughout the season. Started the season tipped for top eight (not by me). They were a wooden spoon team which is lower then what we're. Look what a few marquee and decent signings did for them. They just lack leadership (also not a problem for us). I'm just saying a wooden spoon club and not a top coach was able to attract talent. Yes they did overpay. Even with Ponga at the time (he's worth more now).
Right - so by that logic we should be in a position to attract talent too...

Many here saying we won’t be able to because:

1) No recent success
2) No top line coach
3) We’re allegedly the last Sydney club anyone wants to play for

I personally don’t think any of those apply for our ability to attract a quality squad for 2021.

99% of our cap problems are alleviated in 2020.
 

bradyk

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Right - so by that logic we should be in a position to attract talent too...

Many here saying we won’t be able to because:

1) No recent success
2) No top line coach
3) We’re allegedly the last Sydney club anyone wants to play for

I personally don’t think any of those apply for our ability to attract a quality squad for 2021.

99% of our cap problems are alleviated in 2020.
We've only missed out on one target with the main reason being that we don't want to pay overs (since November, I understood beforehand). It isn't panic stations yet but if we apply that to every player available I don't think we'll sign anyone for 2021 before the start of next season (more and more will be locked away towards that time too) which means if we do recruit it'll be similar recruiting to what we're currently doing (opportunist or reject signings) or panic signings because we're nowhere near spending the remaining salary cap space. The difference between the Knights and I think us is we're going to stick to our guns and not pay overs. I really hope that that isn't that case. We will not sign anyone that you'll see on peoples lists that they want (the "top talent" available).
 

liljohny

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When has the Kennel ever shut up about the coach?

Every successful coach started as a nobody, and built their reputation with the team. Maybe in another year or two we'll have the right combination of players with our coach; then we might see other clubs' stars lining up to sign with us - or we might just breed the next generation of NRL reps.

I've been around for over 70 years; supporting this team most of my life, and I can assure you it's worth the wait for success. Not all gratification is instant.
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