Opinion Strike Rate - Api, Ese Ese, Ramien

[Natboy]

Again HOW the fuck did Dean pay improve their games.

You gave me reasons as to how the players improved their own games, no thanks to pay.

Based on that logic does Craig Bellamy get any credit for improving Cameron Smith and Billy Slater or did they just improve themselves no thanks to Craig Bellamy?

 

[Delta]

No. No no no no

You said pay has improved them. How has he improved them?

Go on please tell me how pay has improved dwz when dwz has been playing at the same level for us since his 1st game for us

Tell me how pay has improved renouf? Other than giving him more game time off the bench and pay not being an absolute idiot like last season when he started renouf in his 4th first grade game and then dropped renouf completely from 1st grade. Seriously how dumb do you have to be to start a young forward in only his 4th first grade game and then completely banish him from 1st grade until the following season

Or how about rfm? How has pay improved him? Rem still gives reckless offloads, is pay going to drop him to reserves again to "improve him"?

Is pay also going to drop chn to reserve grade to teach chn how to catch hospital passes from elliot?

You're saying pay has "improved" these players, I'm simply saying to you show me which aspects of their game have improved from what we already knew about these players early in the season.

As I've said, dwz is the same player as the 1st game he played for us, renouf has always had footwork, post contact metres and offloads, rfm was always hard to tackle and had an offload in him, meaney was always going to be good under the high ball, he showed this in his Newcastle days, and Corey harawera?

Using CHN for your argument is the funniest out of all of them. Pay dropped CHN for a ridiculous reason of "working on his tackling" and yet his fucking pet Adam idiot misses more tackles than anyone else, throws ridiculous hospital passes, is dick fingers, runs to the sideline and gets pushed out by a winger, can't tackle for shit and doesn't stop opposition forwards but CHN needed to be dropped to "work on his tackling"

are you stupid?

DWZ is a better player here than he was at penrith. That is what i am saying... not that he has improved in the past couple of games. This shows that Pay has utilised DWZ in a way that has made him more useful to the team... and hence improving DWZ by being able to get the best out of him. And believe me, next year DWZ will be even better.

RFM has improved after being dropped to reserve grade. Regardless of the 'reckless offloads' which was like once last night, RFM is heaps better than he was earlier in the year and this is the definition of improvement. Pay won't drop him because his performance is now a net positive, whereas before it was a net negative.

your argument about dropping players doesn't make sense. What I am saying is that there is nothing wrong with dropping players when there original performances are a net negative (although CHN wasn't).

Regardless, CHN has improved in attack since coming back and he is no longer missing as many tackles (do i need to pull out stats for this)

I never said any player NEEDS to be dropped. I don't think you understand your own train of thought.

If Elliot were dropped, I believe there would be an improvement in his performances.

 

[CaptainJackson]

Based on that logic does Craig Bellamy get any credit for improving Cameron Smith and Billy Slater or did they just improve themselves no thanks to Craig Bellamy?

No this is not "based on this logic", your example does NOT apply to the same standards.

You're speaking careers vs a season , there I'm even giving you guys an advantage by not using last season when pay royally screwed up with renouf to'omaga and jmk.

Bellamy most definitely improves players as displayed by the success of Melbourne and the fact that some players leaving the storm are never the same.

In fact you can even use examples like Josh ado carr who hes massively improved since his tigers day.

Bellamy has runs to show he is a coach who improves players and aspects to those players game.

 

[CaptainJackson]

are you stupid?

DWZ is a better player here than he was at penrith. That is what i am saying... not that he has improved in the past couple of games. This shows that Pay has utilised DWZ in a way that has made him more useful to the team... and hence improving DWZ by being able to get the best out of him. And believe me, next year DWZ will be even better.

RFM has improved after being dropped to reserve grade. Regardless of the 'reckless offloads' which was like once last night, RFM is heaps better than he was earlier in the year and this is the definition of improvement. Pay won't drop him because his performance is now a net positive, whereas before it was a net negative.

your argument about dropping players doesn't make sense. What I am saying is that there is nothing wrong with dropping players when there original performances are a net negative (although CHN wasn't).

Regardless, CHN has improved in attack since coming back and he is no longer missing as many tackles (do i need to pull out stats for this)

I never said any player NEEDS to be dropped. I don't think you understand your own train of thought.

If Elliot were dropped, I believe there would be an improvement in his performances.

I'm quite certain your post is showing exactly who is stupid.

Dwz got dropped from fullback at Penrith because he had a problem under the high ball. He's shown that same problem with us. He stands out more for us because he's a key player for us whereas he wasn't for Penrith. Penrith have other players who are more key for them but have been massively underperforming but because of those other key players dwz was a bit part player for them and so he did not stand out as a vital cog. He stands out like q vital cog for us because of the less talented squad we have compared to Penrith.

And that one reckless offload rfm did last night, guess what? Versus parra the first time round, he made good metres, good tackles, but had ONE reckless offload (and it wasn't even that reckless) that was intercepted and parra scored and rfm was DROPPED FOR ONE "RECKLESS" OFFLOAD.

before you spew insults like "stupid" and retard maybe make sure you know what the fuck your arguing.

Don't let shit like rfm being dropped for one reckless offload against parra come back and bite you on the arse idiot

 

[Natboy]

No this is not "based on this logic", your example does NOT apply to the same standards.

You're speaking careers vs a season , there I'm even giving you guys an advantage by not using last season when pay royally screwed up with renouf to'omaga and jmk.

Bellamy most definitely improves players as displayed by the success of Melbourne and the fact that some players leaving the storm are never the same.

In fact you can even use examples like Josh ado carr who hes massively improved since his tigers day.

Bellamy has runs to show he is a coach who improves players and aspects to those players game.

Ok so if they only improved from season to season it Bellamy couldn’t take credit? They improved gradually didn’t they

 

[CaptainJackson]

Ok so if they only improved from season to season it Bellamy couldn’t take credit? They improved gradually didn’t they

Yes they improved gradually. And again as per my original request, I didn't list all the players that were claimed to be improved by pay. I ceded on a couple and said pay improved them.

But the ones I listed, again I'm asking how have their games improved under the tutelage of pay and no, "more confidence" doesn't count. That's a team coming together thing which yes pay may have credit for. But I want to know in game abilities and reading the game, tell me how those players have improved.

 

[albatross]

Did someone say Fifita wasn't worth a $1mill?

 

[Delta]

I'm quite certain your post is showing exactly who is stupid.

Dwz got dropped from fullback at Penrith because he had a problem under the high ball. He's shown that same problem with us. He stands out more for us because he's a key player for us whereas he wasn't for Penrith. Penrith have other players who are more key for them but have been massively underperforming but because of those other key players dwz was a bit part player for them and so he did not stand out as a vital cog. He stands out like q vital cog for us because of the less talented squad we have compared to Penrith.

And that one reckless offload rfm did last night, guess what? Versus parra the first time round, he made good metres, good tackles, but had ONE reckless offload (and it wasn't even that reckless) that was intercepted and parra scored and rfm was DROPPED FOR ONE "RECKLESS" OFFLOAD.

before you spew insults like "stupid" and retard maybe make sure you know what the fuck your arguing.

Don't let shit like rfm being dropped for one reckless offload against parra come back and bite you on the arse idiot

No mate you are the fucken retard here. who said rFM was dropped for one 'reckless offload'. You are the escalator here, and since you have used the f word first that opens the gate for me to use even stronger words (I thank you for this).

My argument is that the players ARE INDIVIDUALLY IMPROVING UNDER DEAN PAY. It does not matter if our team is less talented than Penrith. DWZ is much better here than he was at Penrith. Being at the bulldogs has allowed him to PERSONALLY develop his game. This could not have happened at Penrith. With more coaching under Dean Pay, he will inevitably get better as he fits more into our style.

So what about RFM? MY POINT IS HE HAS MADE AN IMPROVEMENT. WOULD YOU SAY HE IS BETTER NOW OR BEFORE? DO NOT GIVE ME THE STUPID RUBBISH ABOUT " caPAbILity". He has been so much better now than before and I bet you most people here would agree on this. (Besides he was shit for much of the earlier part of the year).

So don't say low intellect (or no intellect) things such as Dean Pay not able to bring the best out of his players. He has created a challenging environment which forces players to compete against one another. No one can get too complacent, and this brings out the best in a vast majority of players.

 

[bradyk]

Did someone say Fifita wasn't worth a $1mill?

He's worth 700k. A club like us would have to pay 900k-1m. Broncos have taken to long to lock him up (they needed to replicate what they did with Haas).

 

[CaptainJackson]

No mate you are the fucken retard here. who said rFM was dropped for one 'reckless offload'. You are the escalator here, and since you have used the f word first that opens the gate for me to use even stronger words (I thank you for this).

My argument is that the players ARE INDIVIDUALLY IMPROVING UNDER DEAN PAY. It does not matter if our team is less talented than Penrith. DWZ is much better here than he was at Penrith. Being at the bulldogs has allowed him to PERSONALLY develop his game. This could not have happened at Penrith. With more coaching under Dean Pay, he will inevitably get better as he fits more into our style.

So what about RFM? MY POINT IS HE HAS MADE AN IMPROVEMENT. WOULD YOU SAY HE IS BETTER NOW OR BEFORE? DO NOT GIVE ME THE STUPID RUBBISH ABOUT " caPAbILity". He has been so much better now than before and I bet you most people here would agree on this. (Besides he was shit for much of the earlier part of the year).

So don't say low intellect (or no intellect) things such as Dean Pay not able to bring the best out of his players. He has created a challenging environment which forces players to compete against one another. No one can get too complacent, and this brings out the best in a vast majority of players.

Still can't point to a single aspect of those players game that pay has improved.

I mean there's 5 players there and since their games have improved sooo much I'd think it would be easy to give just one example of an aspect of their games that's improved with pay receiving credit.

And no dope, pays fuck ups early on in the season and finally rectifying them (e.g picking the right players on their right position) doesn't count as improving players.

 

[Delta]

Still can't point to a single aspect of those players game that pay has improved.

I mean there's 5 players there and since their games have improved sooo much I'd think it would be easy to give just one example of an aspect of their games that's improved with pay receiving credit.

And no dope, pays fuck ups early on in the season and finally rectifying them (e.g picking the right players on their right position) doesn't count as improving players.

I HAVE JUST POINTED OUT IN EVERY PLAYER I HAVE MENTIONED HOW THEY HAVE IMPROVED.

OF COURSE WE DON'T KNOW WHAT GOES ON INSIDE THE CLUB, BUT IF PAY IS ABLE TO STIMULATE IMPROVEMENT, AND HE DOES, HE DESERVES CREDIT.

IF PLAYERS IMPROVE UNDER A CERTAIN COACH, COACH DESERVES CREDIT AS WELL.

I NEVER SAID PICKING PLAYERS IN CERTAIN POSITIONS COUNTS AS IMPROVING PLAYERS. WHAT I DID SAY WAS CREATING A COMPETITIVE ENVIRONMENT AND BEING ABLE TO OVERSEE THE IMPROVEMENT OF A PLAYERS SKILLSETS AND CAPABILITIES DOES COUNT AS IMPROVING PLAYERS.

 

[CaptainJackson]

I HAVE JUST POINTED OUT IN EVERY PLAYER I HAVE MENTIONED HOW THEY HAVE IMPROVED.

OF COURSE WE DON'T KNOW WHAT GOES ON INSIDE THE CLUB, BUT IF PAY IS ABLE TO STIMULATE IMPROVEMENT, AND HE DOES, HE DESERVES CREDIT.

IF PLAYERS IMPROVE UNDER A CERTAIN COACH, COACH DESERVES CREDIT AS WELL.

I NEVER SAID PICKING PLAYERS IN CERTAIN POSITIONS COUNTS AS IMPROVING PLAYERS. WHAT I DID SAY WAS CREATING A COMPETITIVE ENVIRONMENT AND BEING ABLE TO OVERSEE THE IMPROVEMENT OF A PLAYERS SKILLSETS AND CAPABILITIES DOES COUNT AS IMPROVING PLAYERS.

I said picking players in their right positions, finally, has made them perform better. Not you, I said that pay fixing up his initial fuck up is not a plus for him. Picking those players in their right positions has made the team perform better.

And no some of those players performances have not improved. I'd argue they've been playing at the same level but because of pays fuck ups in not picking players on their right positions and unjustly dropping certain players while keeping his favourites screwed our performances early in the season.

 

[Kempsey Dog]

A lot of shit posting in these forums lately arguing off topic. Kind of stuff that Mr Invisible would clean up or warn people about... his services would be good right now for a clean up.

 

[Natboy]

It’s quite simple in a few peoples eyes here
Win = No credit to Pay
Lose = All pays fault

 

[wendog33]

It’s quite simple in a few peoples eyes here
Win = No credit to Pay
Lose = All pays fault

Even if you were the coach, the same level of expectation would be put on you (or any other NRL coach).

I haven't seen anyone say when we lose that it's ALL BEEN PAY'S FAULT.

Members and supporters have pointed out the poor decisions and gameplan/tactics/non tactics. The playing of favourites who have actually contributed towards a defeat more heavily than the players Pay has dropped and singled out (which got back to the press to erode their confidence even more...Brown, Lewis, Martin, Ofa, RT, RFM, Crichton, now the bad tactic of Cogger on the bench for 3 x 80 minutes).

It's quite simple in a few people's eyes here that the Pay defenders have such closed eyes they can't see his coaching weaknesses and defend him no matter the points and examples presented by the Club supporters who want an improvement from the Coach as well.

It's as simple as that but I guess no one is going to change their firmly held views.

Arguing back and forth is our right but seriously it's a waste of time cos it doesn't matter what examples and evidence anyone puts up, it seems the agenda is all about the individual and not the Club and what's best for it, which should be the main priority after all.

I'd recommend having your view, giving it but don't bother engaging with the opposers because we'll be winning the comp well before any of these arguers listen to reason and concede there's essential areas of improvement that can, and should, be easily made.

Thank you one and all

 

[Delta]

I said picking players in their right positions, finally, has made them perform better. Not you, I said that pay fixing up his initial fuck up is not a plus for him. Picking those players in their right positions has made the team perform better.

And no some of those players performances have not improved. I'd argue they've been playing at the same level but because of pays fuck ups in not picking players on their right positions and unjustly dropping certain players while keeping his favourites screwed our performances early in the season.

Well this is a dead end then. I stand by what I have said.

 

[Trafford10]

So bottom line the club has about $1.5 million available for new talent after resigning the players they want to resign.

But we can't get anyone, is that we're at?

 

[CrittaMagic69]

So bottom line the club has about $1.5 million available for new talent after resigning the players they want to resign.

But we can't get anyone, is that we're at?

Yes, probably a little less cash than that. I don't hate it because I don't want us paying massive overs for players we shouldn't, but it's still frustrating that we can't sign a player in a position that we have struggled with for years.

 

[Natboy]

[QUOTE="wendog33, post: 3615726, member: 25632"[I haven't seen anyone say when we lose that it's ALL BEEN PAY'S FAULT.[/QUOTE]

You must’ve missed the thousands of monotonous posts I’ve unfortunately read on here

 

[wendog33]

[QUOTE="wendog33, post: 3615726, member: 25632"[I haven't seen anyone say when we lose that it's ALL BEEN PAY'S FAULT.

You must’ve missed the thousands of monotonous posts I’ve unfortunately read on here[/QUOTE]The key word is whether it's "ALL" been Pay's fault.

Certainly most supporters are concerned with our lack of success and the bad coaching outcomes previously outlined by all and sundry. These facts are indisputable.

Fans have to accept that the coaching issue of the team is not all it should be.

Whether it would be any better under another coach, we can only guess but there are plenty of rookie mistakes and inept decisions being made around our team.

Some like to highlight this.

Some like to excuse it.