Opinion If our roster is so bad...

DinkumDog

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Yep. Discussions have already been made by both parties
Really hope this birdie is mis-informed or it falls over. Flanagan is not the sort of person to build the culture I like to see at Belmore. And, no, nothing to do with nepotism or any such nonsense, nor am I against a tough culture for creating a winning team (we all want that).

I’ve just never seen Flanagan express regret for any of his dirty business - be it the Dank affair or then violating his suspension. He seems like a victim where it’s always someone else’s fault.

I’m not sold either that the Sharks weren’t over the cap in 2016 (funny how they were in 2017) or that guys like Barba were only on the Devil’s Dandruff AFTER the GF.

Where there’s smoke there’s fire and the Head Coach in many ways is responsible for the culture of the team representing the club.

Its the measure of the man - so for me, Flanagan is not for the Bulldogs.
 

dogwhisperer

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Lol, I’d love to see Nabs meet BB in real life, gee that would be funny.

By the way this debate that has been going on for 18 months now. Is it the roster that’s bad or the coach that’s bad? It’s like arguing about what came first the chicken or the egg? It will never end lol. Let’s just get rid of all the players and the coach
 

coach

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Lol, I’d love to see Nabs meet BB in real life, gee that would be funny.

By the way this debate that has been going on for 18 months now. Is it the roster that’s bad or the coach that’s bad? It’s like arguing about what came first the chicken or the egg? It will never end lol. Let’s just get rid of all the players and the coach
Rooster came first
 

DinkumDog

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Flanagan keen though ?
Any sacked coach would be keen - Barrett, Toovey, Henry, Griffin, Brennan.

OK so those blokes haven’t won a comp. I don’t believe Flanagan did squeaky clean either.
 

Dogtime

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Pays bitches will be coming for you In 3,2,1....

Roster excuses

We are just a poorly coached team with the worst fitness

Hopefully if/when Pay gets the arse his loyal supporters ride off on that ‘horse’ into the sunset with him
Hail the coach. Finally the team are listening. Lets not overlook some critical facts guys. Pay need to take enormous credit for what we have achieved recently....4 wins for our last 6 games. Consider the following facts regarding this roster:
1. Pay had to start over this last pre season. The good form at the back of last season drew heavily on Frawley as the half, Lewis as 5/8th, Holland and Smith on RHS, Morris's on LHS, Hopoate as FB. This has been turned on its head this year. We also had massive upheaval during the last year trying to forget Desball and develop a playing style. We had Woods and Klemmer, our forward leader in Graham had departed. We had Mbye and he didnt know where to best play himself so neither Hasler nor Pay could work him out so we let him go. Not to mention Foran available for 6 games LY.
2. This year we welcomed Meaney and Cogger. Weve trained Cogger up to now be our best half. Lewis and Foran have had injuries, weve blooded Wakeham who has a bright future if he can put a bit of size on ditto Meaney, but Pay has had to swap the 4 halves around due to form and injuries. We lost Klemmer and had to get Napa to both hit the ball up more regularly than he is used to and play bigger minutes. We still dont have a real effective ball distributing forward. Since welcoming DWZ weve looked more dynamic in attack and better organised in D. CHN also has provided attacking 2nd phase play...also new this year
3. The constants have been Jackson Tolman Lichaa Hopoate and Foran for his obligatory 6 games.
Pay has done an enormous job in getting this young squad up to the speed of NRL.
To all the Pay haters, you wont turn me off our coach or make me stop going to support our boys at every Sydney game. Thanks Dean for the great patience youve shown with the boys. A lesser coach would of thrown up his hands and said this is beyond me. Not Pay though, he bleeds blue and white and we are damn lucky he is the coach of the mighty Canterbury Bulldogs. Thank you Deano!!!!
 

coach

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Hail the coach. Finally the team are listening. Lets not overlook some critical facts guys. Pay need to take enormous credit for what we have achieved recently....4 wins for our last 6 games. Consider the following facts regarding this roster:
1. Pay had to start over this last pre season. The good form at the back of last season drew heavily on Frawley as the half, Lewis as 5/8th, Holland and Smith on RHS, Morris's on LHS, Hopoate as FB. This has been turned on its head this year. We also had massive upheaval during the last year trying to forget Desball and develop a playing style. We had Woods and Klemmer, our forward leader in Graham had departed. We had Mbye and he didnt know where to best play himself so neither Hasler nor Pay could work him out so we let him go. Not to mention Foran available for 6 games LY.
2. This year we welcomed Meaney and Cogger. Weve trained Cogger up to now be our best half. Lewis and Foran have had injuries, weve blooded Wakeham who has a bright future if he can put a bit of size on ditto Meaney, but Pay has had to swap the 4 halves around due to form and injuries. We lost Klemmer and had to get Napa to both hit the ball up more regularly than he is used to and play bigger minutes. We still dont have a real effective ball distributing forward. Since welcoming DWZ weve looked more dynamic in attack and better organised in D. CHN also has provided attacking 2nd phase play...also new this year
3. The constants have been Jackson Tolman Lichaa Hopoate and Foran for his obligatory 6 games.
Pay has done an enormous job in getting this young squad up to the speed of NRL.
To all the Pay haters, you wont turn me off our coach or make me stop going to support our boys at every Sydney game. Thanks Dean for the great patience youve shown with the boys. A lesser coach would of thrown up his hands and said this is beyond me. Not Pay though, he bleeds blue and white and we are damn lucky he is the coach of the mighty Canterbury Bulldogs. Thank you Deano!!!!
McGuire looked at our roster and cap and said no thanks
 

wendog33

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Hail the coach. Finally the team are listening. Lets not overlook some critical facts guys. Pay need to take enormous credit for what we have achieved recently....4 wins for our last 6 games. Consider the following facts regarding this roster:
1. Pay had to start over this last pre season. The good form at the back of last season drew heavily on Frawley as the half, Lewis as 5/8th, Holland and Smith on RHS, Morris's on LHS, Hopoate as FB. This has been turned on its head this year. We also had massive upheaval during the last year trying to forget Desball and develop a playing style. We had Woods and Klemmer, our forward leader in Graham had departed. We had Mbye and he didnt know where to best play himself so neither Hasler nor Pay could work him out so we let him go. Not to mention Foran available for 6 games LY.
2. This year we welcomed Meaney and Cogger. Weve trained Cogger up to now be our best half. Lewis and Foran have had injuries, weve blooded Wakeham who has a bright future if he can put a bit of size on ditto Meaney, but Pay has had to swap the 4 halves around due to form and injuries. We lost Klemmer and had to get Napa to both hit the ball up more regularly than he is used to and play bigger minutes. We still dont have a real effective ball distributing forward. Since welcoming DWZ weve looked more dynamic in attack and better organised in D. CHN also has provided attacking 2nd phase play...also new this year
3. The constants have been Jackson Tolman Lichaa Hopoate and Foran for his obligatory 6 games.
Pay has done an enormous job in getting this young squad up to the speed of NRL.
To all the Pay haters, you wont turn me off our coach or make me stop going to support our boys at every Sydney game. Thanks Dean for the great patience youve shown with the boys. A lesser coach would of thrown up his hands and said this is beyond me. Not Pay though, he bleeds blue and white and we are damn lucky he is the coach of the mighty Canterbury Bulldogs. Thank you Deano!!!!
Well dang...everyone playing so well. Coach doing a great job too.

I just can't understand why we are 2nd last now! :grinning:
 

speedy2460

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Hail the coach. Finally the team are listening. Lets not overlook some critical facts guys. Pay need to take enormous credit for what we have achieved recently....4 wins for our last 6 games. Consider the following facts regarding this roster:
1. Pay had to start over this last pre season. The good form at the back of last season drew heavily on Frawley as the half, Lewis as 5/8th, Holland and Smith on RHS, Morris's on LHS, Hopoate as FB. This has been turned on its head this year. We also had massive upheaval during the last year trying to forget Desball and develop a playing style. We had Woods and Klemmer, our forward leader in Graham had departed. We had Mbye and he didnt know where to best play himself so neither Hasler nor Pay could work him out so we let him go. Not to mention Foran available for 6 games LY.
2. This year we welcomed Meaney and Cogger. Weve trained Cogger up to now be our best half. Lewis and Foran have had injuries, weve blooded Wakeham who has a bright future if he can put a bit of size on ditto Meaney, but Pay has had to swap the 4 halves around due to form and injuries. We lost Klemmer and had to get Napa to both hit the ball up more regularly than he is used to and play bigger minutes. We still dont have a real effective ball distributing forward. Since welcoming DWZ weve looked more dynamic in attack and better organised in D. CHN also has provided attacking 2nd phase play...also new this year
3. The constants have been Jackson Tolman Lichaa Hopoate and Foran for his obligatory 6 games.
Pay has done an enormous job in getting this young squad up to the speed of NRL.
To all the Pay haters, you wont turn me off our coach or make me stop going to support our boys at every Sydney game. Thanks Dean for the great patience youve shown with the boys. A lesser coach would of thrown up his hands and said this is beyond me. Not Pay though, he bleeds blue and white and we are damn lucky he is the coach of the mighty Canterbury Bulldogs. Thank you Deano!!!!
Agree that Dean Pay has done as good a job as anyone can. But the biggest influence on the improved form has been Steve Antonelli.
He is the defence coach and has been given more time with the squad. If they can divest themselves of the other imposter assistant coach
they will do even better. The squad will be much stronger next season with a few more recruits in the mix.
 

budgie69

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You want a reply? Let me do what you and your farm animal crew do, just repeat myself.

Pay is a shit coach, has proved it.
Wins a few games end of year and people cream themselves
Seems like he has no interpersonal skill
Pay is a shit coach, he has proved it (just in case some brick walls out there hadn’t got it into their mind)

that is your opinion and that is fine .. why are you getting so worked up because some people dont agree with you .. i still dont think any other coach besides a top few which we wouldnt get could be much with this squad , but its my opinion.. teams with better squads .. Dragons, Cowboys , titans , Knights and warriors are just above / even or below us and only the titans coach has been sacked .. so in my opinion Pay isnt the biggest concern here but feel free to disagree
 

budgie69

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The NRL is shit in general lol, basically just a bunch of athletes running out every week with minimal footy IQ and coaches too afraid to try anything out of the ordinary.
why follow the game if you tr
May I try Sleeky.

Coach you say:
1.we need a good pack to get us into good field position.

2.Lewis kicks it down the FB or wingers throats.

3.We have fekk all sets in their 30.
*************
In the opinion of those not satisfied with coach Pay all of the above issues you pointed out Coach, are the responsibility of the NRL Head Coach of our club.

1. Tolman/Lichaa-JMK/Napa/Jackson/CHN/Smith. This pack is highly criticised as being the softest in Bulldogs history. Yet on paper it is quite good. Possibly Smith and Lichaa the most average of the starting 6.
Yet this is the pack Pay chooses. When Elliott is fit, he will be first picked.

Same with Montoya.

Our issues with the forwards loosing the middle and dominance is not the individual player...it is the coach to be able to get them performing at their best and he is choosing the wrong players in the wrong positions.
My suggestion -
RFM/JMK/Ogden/CHN/JJ/Tolman
Bench:Napa, RT, Elliott, Wakeham (of what we have available atm)

2. Lewis and Cogger kicking down the throats of wingers and FB's. That's part of the coach's duties as well. It should have been well and truly fixed (unless it's a Pay tactic) That guys can get to FG and have no effective kicking game is deplorable but worse still is that for such a crucial role as a half, and that no one has given them specialised coaching in this area. Week after bloody week and it's not fixed.

Like Tolman in the 20. Week after bloody week it's never fixed.

3. No sets in their 20 due to lack of gameplan or execution. Terrible line speed where we are coached to stop and hold, jump on them and get carried 5-10 metres. Sometimes when watching on TV, you can't see Bulldogs players other than the markers, run to the attacking player for what seems seconds before any of our players come into view to tackle...there are not within cooee and the metres the opposition get gifted is terrible. Other teams play flat at the advantage line. We are 15-20 metres back and then run into the previous ruck area.

It's all poor coaching and tactics.

We can't be just blaming the players for the poor results.

1. i understand the need or the push for RFM / CHN / Ogden and Renouf in the squad but they have too many missed tackles in their game hence why they arent startign every week .. they have the power to make meters but if you ccan defend its no good to the team especially in the middle of the field

2. im pretty sure Dean doesnt tell the halves to kick it straight down the FB throat and they have brought in Sherwin as the kicking coach but if the players arent good enough to kick the ball to open space (not as easy as it sounds) . he has tried 4 different combo at halves cause of this problem

3. i cant argue with this point i agree but it might be the style Pay wants them to play ... there has been numerous amount of matches this year we have had no tries scored against us in the second half and our defense in the last 4 games have been good (except Broncos) .. i know people are not going like this but it does coincide with Lichaa coming back to first grade (not that i think he is the long term answer)

again the coach do not miss tackles , drop the ball , give away silly penalties as they dont score tries , make great plays , try saving tackles ... the coach can only set out a plan the players have to do able to execute it
 

CrittaMagic69

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Lol, I’d love to see Nabs meet BB in real life, gee that would be funny.

By the way this debate that has been going on for 18 months now. Is it the roster that’s bad or the coach that’s bad? It’s like arguing about what came first the chicken or the egg? It will never end lol. Let’s just get rid of all the players and the coach
I think it's a matter of others believing the rosters ability is set in stone while I believe a good coach can utilise the players ability better and improve them and that increases the players value

Two seasons in a row under Pay we have managed to play some decent footy towards the backend of the year, so the players ARE capable of being competitive and performing at a higher more consistent level. There could be so many reasons for this, I just believe preparation and training is a major factor behind it.

Preseason has been absolutely fucked up for two years running while the use of trials has been poor and too much reliance has been put on intra club games. Focus in key areas has been poor, not enough was put into working on the core fundamentals of our defensive and offensive structures early on and we fell into the trap of believing in this "heads up footy" and trying to rely on individual brilliance that is massively lacking.

You then have to look at the constant chopping and changing we have gone through under Pay, some people try to twist it like it is a good thing because he's "trying different things" but all it did was show that Pay was struggling and as a result the players couldn't build the consistency and combinations required in todays game. We also weren't focusing on a players strengths because of this.

Then look at our player selections. Holland and Smith built a strong combo last season yet we didn't even see it once this year, absolutely crazy. We actually built something that was potentially very good yet never want back to it despite all the other chopping and changing going on around it. Burr also not being offered a contract? Bloke came back to the club and worked his arse off and ended up being our ISP player of the season and WANTED to play for the club, yet we couldn't even offer him the bare minimum he wanted to to be in the top squad. Ogden also being dropped after having a strong stint when starting while Napa was out, not really rewarding your players performances is it. There's so many other examples.

These are the types of things that irritate me about Pay, he also seems very limited in managing players and can only really deal with a certain type. Board is giving him every chance possible to succeed and he might very well improve with more experience and potentially better specialised staff around him. But fuck waiting a few more years for this shit, next season we need to see some sort of early season form, that doesn't mean we have to win or be entrenched in the top 8, just show some improvement in key areas and identity in our footy.
 

dogwhisperer

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I think it's a matter of others believing the rosters ability is set in stone while I believe a good coach can utilise the players ability better and improve them and that increases the players value

Two seasons in a row under Pay we have managed to play some decent footy towards the backend of the year, so the players ARE capable of being competitive and performing at a higher more consistent level. There could be so many reasons for this, I just believe preparation and training is a major factor behind it.

Preseason has been absolutely fucked up for two years running while the use of trials has been poor and too much reliance has been put on intra club games. Focus in key areas has been poor, not enough was put into working on the core fundamentals of our defensive and offensive structures early on and we fell into the trap of believing in this "heads up footy" and trying to rely on individual brilliance that is massively lacking.

You then have to look at the constant chopping and changing we have gone through under Pay, some people try to twist it like it is a good thing because he's "trying different things" but all it did was show that Pay was struggling and as a result the players couldn't build the consistency and combinations required in todays game. We also weren't focusing on a players strengths because of this.

Then look at our player selections. Holland and Smith built a strong combo last season yet we didn't even see it once this year, absolutely crazy. We actually built something that was potentially very good yet never want back to it despite all the other chopping and changing going on around it. Burr also not being offered a contract? Bloke came back to the club and worked his arse off and ended up being our ISP player of the season and WANTED to play for the club, yet we couldn't even offer him the bare minimum he wanted to to be in the top squad. Ogden also being dropped after having a strong stint when starting while Napa was out, not really rewarding your players performances is it. There's so many other examples.

These are the types of things that irritate me about Pay, he also seems very limited in managing players and can only really deal with a certain type. Board is giving him every chance possible to succeed and he might very well improve with more experience and potentially better specialised staff around him. But fuck waiting a few more years for this shit, next season we need to see some sort of early season form, that doesn't mean we have to win or be entrenched in the top 8, just show some improvement in key areas and identity in our footy.
Yeh, I can't argue with that. Pretty much spot on mate.
I was actually hoping we were going to build off the way we finished last season. Whether it was because there was no pressure, or because we decided to give some young guys a chance(e.g Martin, Lewis, R.Smith), whatever the reason may have been, regardless, I actually thought both coaching staff and players would have gained a lot of confidence out of it and taken it into this year.
But after the first two games, the writing was on the wall. Let's hope the first 10 rounds next year is not a repeat of 2018/19.
 

wendog33

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why follow the game if you tr



1. i understand the need or the push for RFM / CHN / Ogden and Renouf in the squad but they have too many missed tackles in their game hence why they arent startign every week .. they have the power to make meters but if you ccan defend its no good to the team especially in the middle of the field

2. im pretty sure Dean doesnt tell the halves to kick it straight down the FB throat and they have brought in Sherwin as the kicking coach but if the players arent good enough to kick the ball to open space (not as easy as it sounds) . he has tried 4 different combo at halves cause of this problem

3. i cant argue with this point i agree but it might be the style Pay wants them to play ... there has been numerous amount of matches this year we have had no tries scored against us in the second half and our defense in the last 4 games have been good (except Broncos) .. i know people are not going like this but it does coincide with Lichaa coming back to first grade (not that i think he is the long term answer)

again the coach do not miss tackles , drop the ball , give away silly penalties as they dont score tries , make great plays , try saving tackles ... the coach can only set out a plan the players have to do able to execute it
It's all about the Football Dept and the staff starting with the Head Coach.
 

budgie69

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It's all about the Football Dept and the staff starting with the Head Coach.

true and you have seen the change they have implemented with the juniors getting better and developing ... you guys always mention when Des was here he forgot about our juniors and in a year and a half they have got our juniors humming again ... give it next year and see how well we can improve ... the football Dept said they will build through our juniors (tick they are doing this) the head coach is still a question mark but at the start of the season i had us winning 7-10 games .. which we have won 7 already with 5 to go .. we have blooded a number of new players young and inexperienced some have worked out and some havent .. how do you assess the coaches performance what would be the bar ??
 
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