Opinion If our roster is so bad...

silva

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I think DWZ is the biggest difference... would like to see foran fit playing and playing together

But who makes was for foran? Cogger improving every game and Lewis defence is game changing
Cogger is outplaying lewis. Shown big improvement
 

steeliz

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Yeah because the difference between 16th and 15th is leaps and bounds, right?

So you would accept late surges when we have nothing to play for 2 years in a row? If that's what you're implying then that, astounds me also.
At the moment it is.

We are 6 points clear of 16th. 3 wins is big when you are on the bottom of the ladder.

We are actually equal 13th on points if you don't look at for and against.
 

Sandra's Bollocks

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Um yes lol, 15th is much different than 16th, 16th you're remembered for getting the wooden spoon. Who remembers who came 15th?

I never said I accept late surges 2 yrs in a row, but winning is better than getting the spoon. You can put whatever spin on it you want, if you'd rather lose than win, that is truly astounding
No of course I'd rather win than lose, but I'm guessing you already knew that coz you seem like a very intelligent person.
What I'm suggesting is why is their mindset and attitude so different during the season than what it is towards the end when we've got nothing to lose?
 

Sandra's Bollocks

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At the moment it is.

We are 6 points clear of 16th. 3 wins is big when you are on the bottom of the ladder.

We are actually equal 13th on points if you don't look at for and against.
So why would you ignore F and A? Isn't that what also decides where you are situated on the table? At this moment we are still 15th regardless. We may finish the year there or perhaps 14th. It doesnt really matter where we finish, unless we're fighting for a top 8 spot.
 

steeliz

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So why would you ignore F and A? Isn't that what also decides where you are situated on the table? At this moment we are still 15th regardless. We may finish the year there or perhaps 14th. It doesnt really matter where we finish, unless we're fighting for a top 8 spot.
True, but when you are 15th and have 7 wins for the season and are still 3 wins ahead of 16th, basically that is almost twice as many wins between 15th and 16th. Then combine this with having the same amount of wins as the team in 13th.

That is a big difference.

We are 5 points out of the Top 8 and 6 points from the wooden spoon. So, mathematically we are closer to the Top 8 than to the wooden spoon.

Don't get me wrong though, I am not saying it is good or that I am satisfied with where we are.
 

MitchNewton

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..then how are we able to string some wins together during the backend of the last two seasons? It's apparently the worst roster in history according to some so it shouldn't be possible to win?

The quality of NRL teams in today's game is hardly anything flash, the gap is no where as big as some try to make out....there's talent and raw ability here within the club yet we play like absolute shit for the majority of the season when it matters and only get results when it doesn't.

Where is the so called rebuild? We didn't build on last season and this season is nothing more than a repeat of the previous. Shouldn't a good coach have got more from us when it mattered? Are we starting from scratch once again next season and the season after that?
Our roster is bad that’s why we were tipped to come Last and are coming second last. Don’t let a few wins here and there fool you.
The current roster isn’t good enough to get 13+ wins a season
 

Sandra's Bollocks

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True, but when you are 15th and have 7 wins for the season and are still 3 wins ahead of 16th, basically that is almost twice as many wins between 15th and 16th. Then combine this with having the same amount of wins as the team in 13th.

That is a big difference.

We are 5 points out of the Top 8 and 6 points from the wooden spoon. So, mathematically we are closer to the Top 8 than to the wooden spoon.

Don't get me wrong though, I am not saying it is good or that I am satisfied with where we are.
You make a valid point there. Food for thought.
 

TABOO

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Dean pay or not, I nether for or against
But we have a shithouse roster and it’s weaker this year than last year
Napa our only rep player and he got dropped
Even titans have Wallace and arrow and proctor even tho his on the “nose” with nz
( not counting Cook Islands, Samoa etc)
"On the nose with NZ" :tearsofjoy::tearsofjoy::tearsofjoy::tearsofjoy::tearsofjoy::tearsofjoy::tearsofjoy::tearsofjoy:
 

Straight18

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Thanks for an answer, no one else can
Tigers, manly were 15th last year now sitting high up. Coaching example there not one player came in or out.
Cowboys very weak backs. Shall i go on. We could be doing better with what we have.
Kiwi and origin reps who have all lost there spot under dean. The squad is not as weak as u think coach.
 

Shanked

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Why does it have to be one or the other? The roster's mostly meh, especially the spine, and pay hasn't improved them that much, especially in attack. They try hard, and that's about it
 

Straight18

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He presented Bennets game plan to the team.

Bennett pulled apart the Tigers game plan, Belamy just read the script to the team.
So bellamy has been calling wayne for his instructions for the last 15 years of his domination against 15 other clubs.
Yeah right it was bennet, bellamy had no ability. Some of u are impossible.
 

Straight18

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Is nab fab a moron seriously
Actually no he has more common sence and footy sence than most of u on here.
He like me is over this trust the dna process bullshit, and people happy with mediocracy.
We have trusted the process for last 15 years and are playing dumb football still.
Are u not all sick of making excuses and rather push for succes as quickly as possible.
 

Straight18

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Exactly what I said
I will give a judgement on pay when his got some decent cattle to work with
Salary cap mess, change of board
Lots of changes and variables

I’m not pro pay or anti pay but a fan who’s wa5ch8ng the situation at our club closely
They were honest and told us we won’t be out of cap trouble till 2021
And can’t blame the current for the formers fuck ups
Why do clubs like melbourne not use these excuses when there cap got blown up ?
They chop and change there roster more than most.... yet success. They dont bow down and take it up the arse cause of salary cap pressure. So why do we ? Oh they have better players.
Childish excuse making bullshit.
We have just as many internationals as other teams. If not more.
Just been coached into poor form with poor game plans.
Chn
Rfm
Jacko
Foran
Hoppa
Dallin
Dylan
Tolmans played in 3 grand finals
All our kids are junoir kiwi and nsw reps.
Yes our squad can be stronger but its certainly strong enough that the coach could be doing much better if he has what it takes to win a comp.
Id rather our squad over titans, dragons, tigers, newcastle, cowboys, warriors just to name a few.
Knights and sharks have too many egos and got there squad balance a bit wrong at minute as well.
 

youoboys

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I prefer to pour my milk first before pouring me Nutri gran
 

DinkumDog

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Why do clubs like melbourne not use these excuses when there cap got blown up ?
They chop and change there roster more than most.... yet success. They dont bow down and take it up the arse cause of salary cap pressure. So why do we ? Oh they have better players.
Childish excuse making bullshit.
We have just as many internationals as other teams. If not more.
Just been coached into poor form with poor game plans.
Chn
Rfm
Jacko
Foran
Hoppa
Dallin
Dylan
Tolmans played in 3 grand finals
All our kids are junoir kiwi and nsw reps.
Yes our squad can be stronger but its certainly strong enough that the coach could be doing much better if he has what it takes to win a comp.
Id rather our squad over titans, dragons, tigers, newcastle, cowboys, warriors just to name a few.
Knights and sharks have too many egos and got there squad balance a bit wrong at minute as well.
Think we have to take into account administrators as well, not just coach and/or squad if you’re going to look back 15 years.

2002 we got caught with our pants down, good chance we were going to win the title that year.

2004 fought back from adversity and won it.

During that period we had Turvey as CEO after Bob Hagan and cheats were buried.

Whatever anyone’s view on Greenberg, the truth is we probably didn’t have modern day administrators until that era.

Moore was a mistake as coach, even though Folkesy was done.

Des in the early years was good - two GF’s where we were clearly outplayed by a better team - particularly 2014 more than 2012.

Des’ mistake was mis-judging his premiership window which he got right at Manly in 08 & 11 but after 2014 got so wrong with us. One example - Greg Eastwood re-signed for 3 years in 2016 earning $800k playing reggies last year but serving out a fat back-ended contract (and now Foran the same). Let’s not even get into other dumb recruits or who we let go that we shouldn’t have.

My point is - between an ego-maniac power hungry coach, an ineffective CEO and a dictator Chair - none of whom seemed to work together properly - that started the snowball into hell and here we are.

You make several valid points but one thing I won’t agree with you or NabFab on is acceptance of mediocrity - I don’t know one Dogs fan who thinks that’s OK.

I do know several however who understand that Rome wasn’t built in a day - especially when the foundations were on Shit Creek.

I’m giving benefit of the doubt to our current administrators who laid out their plan and are delivering it. They extended the coach by 1 year - to me that says he’s not their long term pick. But it makes sense as the squad will be stronger in 20 and unrecognisable in 21 vs today. So a new coach starts likely mid 2020 if Pay can’t get clearly improved results from a stronger / more experienced squad.

And, with new governance in place, he gets some but limited input for the 21 squad come this November.

We’ve made a lot of mistakes, but I think we’re on our way back.

Sack the board, sack the coach and so much other bleating on here - for what? Why win a battle if you’re not aiming to win the war?
 

budgie69

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..then how are we able to string some wins together during the backend of the last two seasons? It's apparently the worst roster in history according to some so it shouldn't be possible to win?

The quality of NRL teams in today's game is hardly anything flash, the gap is no where as big as some try to make out....there's talent and raw ability here within the club yet we play like absolute shit for the majority of the season when it matters and only get results when it doesn't.

Where is the so called rebuild? We didn't build on last season and this season is nothing more than a repeat of the previous. Shouldn't a good coach have got more from us when it mattered? Are we starting from scratch once again next season and the season after that?
Seriously do you even follow any sport ... just because you havent got the best team doesnt mean you cant win games .. just in the whole season your win to loss ratio will not look great .. consistency is the issue with young and inexperienced sides, which i think sums up our team . we will win games now and then , also early games teams are still gelling and oppositions play will also come into as we saw in the sharks game where they were hopeless . but if we think we have a good side on paper than fair enough i for one think we are playing above our ability which happens and im actually happy to see the young players improving
 

Scoooby

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Actually no he has more common sence and footy sence than most of u on here.
He like me is over this trust the dna process bullshit, and people happy with mediocracy.
We have trusted the process for last 15 years and are playing dumb football still.
Are u not all sick of making excuses and rather push for succes as quickly as possible.
I’m with you an both nab fab, always have been with this very subject..!!
 

budgie69

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And again that's all just a roster excuse. I understand how recruitment works, but I'm more interested in what is happening here and now with the players we currently have. Pay still has a team to coach and build with what we currently have...yet this has been basically non existent.

Where's the so called heads up footy he talked about almost two years ago? Where are all the other things he mentioned? Hasn't delivered shit. Player development should've been better, there should be a clearer understanding of the type off footy we're playing, there shouldn't be so much chopping and changing, etc. These are the things I'm interested in.

If Pay had got these type of end season results much earlier through the season then my opinion in him would've changed, but he simply hasn't. This constant spewing of rebuild is just an excuse and distraction to lower expectations so we as fans accept mediocre performances and results.
mate a rebuild takes more than a season usually takes 3 or 4
 

budgie69

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We are still playing like shit. Fkn pathetic attack, no intensity in defense. Ofcourse goal line defense will improve if thats all youve been doing all year.
If anyone thinks we are playing remotely well got no clue. We have no chance of beating the top teams. We are just a team with nothing to lose beating teams who are just making up the numbers.
how do you agree with this comment ... we have beaten the Sharks , Panthers and Tigers all completing for the eight the knights also who were in the eight ... i agree we have no chance of beating the top teams because we aint a top team thats the point of this whole thing ...
 

budgie69

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Thanks for the input Kevin,

So can we expect Pay to be given a 10 year extension on his current contract and dare we dream of a finals berth in 2029???? I have nothing against Pay as a person, I'm sure his a top bloke and very likable but that alone will not ensure success and these question marks being thrown at our current roster, oh their just not good enough, we're in a rebuilding faze, are nothing but excuses to hide Pays short comings as a coach.

The consensus is that Pay deserves more time but the truth is a better coach would be knocking on the door of the final 8 with this team and not relying on the results of other games while trying to avoid the spoon.

what a rubbish comment as we will never know for sure will we ... most experts had us for the wooden spoon so your comment is rubbish .. knocking on the door of the top 8 thats laughable
 
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