News Jack De Bellend Megathread

[Raysie]

Sex abuse victims are known to try and wash the offender off them, or feel unclean after the fact.

I guess it could be explained as done out of shock, or fear? She may have felt her safest option was to not make a scene, get back safely with friends, and then seek out police.

Seems strange she'd go straight to hospital for a rape test if there wasn't a potential concern there.

Regarding the need to wash themselves after a rape incident, I completely get that. But to then be able to shower with 2 dangerous men in sight and I'm assuming re-apply make-up, re-do up hair and then be nice enough to order these guys an Uber to accompany them to a Nightclub, just doesn't add up to me.

What is the rape test going to show though? That there was sexual activity and that there may be bumps and bruises? The sexual activity doesn't seem to have been denied and the bumps and bruises could've come from anywhere.

Not trying to write her off, just putting my own views out there of the events recorded.

 

[Trafford10]

Something doesn't fully add up here:

- No way I'd be having a shower in the same building as two alleged rapists.
- No way I'd be happy enough to order an Uber for two allegedly rapists.
- No way I'd be up for going to a nightclub after allegedly being raped while also travelling in a small squashed car with said rapists.
- Don't know too many people capable of Nightlub > Sex > Shower > Nightclub. Between sex and shower I'd be done. This is coming from someone that could go through to the next day easily on a big night lol

The worst summary in the history of the world right here!!!

They said they went back to the apartment so that de Belin & Sinclair could charge their phones right?

The Victim claims she was raped and had a shower after being rapped, not unusual to for a rape victim to want to wash.

Is it possible that she was feeling rather intimidated and wanted to get to a place with other people around where she could feel sale, that being submissive and calling the Uber was a way to achieve this? I note the report says that as soon as she got back to the nightclub she left and called a friend.

I see that one of the charges is sexual assault in company, inflicting actual bodily harm, which attracts a maximum penalty of life in prison. She must of shown physical injury and you will note that there is no time frame mentioned for the medical examination, I suspect that she went to the hospital very soon after the “alleged” rape.

Finally I note you refer back to your personal experience, are you a women?

 

[Raysie]

The worst summary in the history of the world right here!!!

They said they went going back to the apartment so that de Belin & Sinclair could charge their phones right?

The Victim claims she was raped and had a shower after being rapped, not unusual to for a rape victim to want to wash.

Is it possible that she was felling rather intimidated and wanted to get to a place with other people around where she could feel sale, that being submissive and calling the Uber was a way to achieve this? I note the report says that as soon as she got back to the nightclub she left and called a friend.

I see that one of the charges is sexual assault in company, inflicting actual bodily harm, which attracts a maximum penalty of life in prison. She must of shown physical injury and you will note that there is no time frame mentioned for the medical examination, I suspect that she went to the hospital very soon after the “alleged” rape.

Finally I note you refer back to your personal experience, are you a women?

Just putting my own human view on things mate. Whether it's right or wrong is irrelevant and not what I'm trying to do.

And no, I'm not a woman.

 

[086]

so that was quite a rant!!
Yet the issue I raised with you was that you objected to Mr. I saying Jack de Belin was a scumbag because he had sex with another women while his pregnant partner was at home. Something which self-evident, no?

With respect to the criminal case against Jack de Belin, I note he is to stand trial over Five charges, including four counts of aggravated sexual assault in company and one count of aggravated sexual assault in company, inflicting actual bodily harm. The last charge has a maximum sentence of life in prison.

Yet you are taking about domestic violence between lesbians and/or domestic violence more generally, this case is not about domestic violence at all.

Also how are family court proceeds relevant? Criminal charges are not dealt with by the federal circuit court of the family law court. Other than trying to get your point in that women make false accusations of domestic violence, yes?

That post was my first in this thread, so how on Earth you could be replying to me is beyond all reasonable comprehension of anyone!
Stop twisting facts to suit your narrative!
Do you have intimate knowledge of their relationship arrangement?
She may have agreed to a hall pass whilst in the later stages of pregnancy for all we know, yet by all means, jump upon your high horse and assume all you like!
Oh, and for the record, if he has cheated upon his wife, I do consider it very ordinary behaviour and that she deserves far better, yet even then, there may be extenuating circumstances that we're not aware of!
You know, such as she may had cheated on him and the kid isn't his as one example of a possible extenuating circumstance, then who would be the scumbag?
Him for sticking with an unfaithful wife carrying the spawn of an affair?
You, just like I, know two parts of fuck all about their personal life...

Yes, and?
That information is on the record for all that are not entirely cut off from media advertisements.

You are the one that raised the topic of how decent females are in comparison to males.
"...women are much nicer than men!!!" "...it is something that I know is the absolute truth."
You've sought to take the gendered narrative.
I've dismissed it with the respect it deserves.
You still fail to get it.
You're a dinosaur Dorothy!

 

[Bob dog]

Regarding the need to wash themselves after a rape incident, I completely get that. But to then be able to shower with 2 dangerous men in sight and I'm assuming re-apply make-up, re-do up hair and then be nice enough to order these guys an Uber to accompany them to a Nightclub, just doesn't add up to me.

What is the rape test going to show though? That there was sexual activity and that there may be bumps and bruises? The sexual activity doesn't seem to have been denied and the bumps and bruises could've come from anywhere.

Not trying to write her off, just putting my own views out there of the events recorded.

Maybe she thought about it later when she sobered and felt violated?
If he tore her clothes off why didn't the alarm bells go off then?
They must of been in a consensual relationship before hand.

 

[Bulldogs09]

I’m not at all saying I believe it is or isn’t rape. Though I completely understand rayise point.

Horrible thing to discuss and think of though it is said to be a very common thing (washing after it for the victims as they want to fee clean, remove the rapist etc) though I can’t understand if you are in a high rise block why you don’t scream out the moment your out the door if your a women who’s just been raped by two men. I would think the first thing she would do once able to do would be run or scream for help once out of that room.

That said I assume that fear and horror would take a huge toll and effect thought process.

Just I can see raysies comment there.

I’d imagine cctv footage would help here. How is she in the hotel lobby? Hallways? Elevators? Uber? Clubs exiting and club entry?

Horrible disgusting evil thing to think of, both if they where actually rapists and also if this is some gold digger ruining two men’s lives. Sad world to live in either way you look at this.

Although if debelin doesn’t have some open relationship I’m disgusted he is out in this kind of environment with his misses pregnant. Who the fuck does that to their partner carrying their child? Again as someone else said he might have an open relationship then I don’t get that but if not seriously wtf ?

 

[bulldogfan1]

Sex abuse victims are known to try and wash the offender off them, or feel unclean after the fact.

I guess it could be explained as done out of shock, or fear? She may have felt her safest option was to not make a scene, get back safely with friends, and then seek out police.

Seems strange she'd go straight to hospital for a rape test if there wasn't a potential concern there.

I see what you are saying, however, that would pretty much label De Belin and the other dragons player as sociopaths.

Could you RAPE a woman, then essentially "hang out" with them, ie, agree to go on a car ride with them and then go to a nightclub and hang out a little more obviously as if nothing happened?

To do so would pretty much label them as sociopaths.

 

[bulldogfan1]

Obviously not knowing exactly what happened, but woman change when they feel they have been rejected.

When the under 20s player said that he cant "get hard anymore", that raises alarm bells for me. I could only imagine a woman would feel rejected by that.

Maybe after the incident, after he said he couldnt get hard anymore and then maybe De Belin started going to after other girls in the night club etc etc.

You just know, woman do strange things after rejection. Not saying this obviously happened here because none of us know, but just throwing a theory out there.

Didnt the woman at the Coffs harbour case also get rejected by multiple players and hence we know what happened after?

 

[GoTheDoggies]

De Bellin will be found innocent for sure.

Then we sign him on the cheap to bolster our forward stocks. 2021 RECRUITMENT DRIVE.

Tapau, De Belin & Frizell IN

 

[B-Train]

Wow, I missed out on some heated discussion here! My two cents: The past tense of rape is raped, not rapped.

I'm not going to get into this whole saga but it seems pretty incriminating and the severity of the charges and mounting evidence seem to indicate something untoward took place.

If this is proven and he is indeed guilty, then De Bellin and his pretty, manscaped bleached asshole will get all the raping he can handle.

 

[Mr Invisible]

Some things don't really add up in all this.

So you're out on the town and you need to charge your mobile phone (really? WHY? You have a mate with you with a phone!). That's warning 1 for me.

Why not head home and charge it (leave your mate in car with girl or invite her in, or catch another Uber home)? Or call it a night and go spend time with your pregnant partner. That's warning 2 for me.

Then in addition to this, why swing by an apartment that just happened to be vacant that weekend. That's warning 3 for me.

Horrible thing to discuss and think of though it is said to be a very common thing (washing after it for the victims as they want to fee clean, remove the rapist etc) though I can’t understand if you are in a high rise block why you don’t scream out the moment your out the door if your a women who’s just been raped by two men. I would think the first thing she would do once able to do would be run or scream for help once out of that room.

That said I assume that fear and horror would take a huge toll and effect thought process.

Fear Paralysis. Also potentially short term stockholm syndrome (i.e go with the flow just to get it over with).

There was a woman in the media recently who was continually sexually abused by her father. To cope with the trauma she developed multiple personalities which would take over when she was being abused.

First time the courts apparently have allowed a testimony from a multiple personality.

When the under 20s player said that he cant "get hard anymore", that raises alarm bells for me. I could only imagine a woman would feel rejected by that.

Maybe, but on the flipside, testosterone can make you not think straight. Might have got his rocks off once then realised the severity of the situation (or seen her fear).

 

[Trafford10]

That post was my first in this thread, so how on Earth you could be replying to me is beyond all reasonable comprehension of anyone!

ha....where did I say "reply" I said I raised the issue with you. It's there in black and white.

Stop twisting facts to suit your narrative!
Do you have intimate knowledge of their relationship arrangement?
She may have agreed to a hall pass whilst in the later stages of pregnancy for all we know, yet by all means, jump upon your high horse and assume all you like!
Oh, and for the record, if he has cheated upon his wife, I do consider it very ordinary behaviour and that she deserves far better, yet even then, there may be extenuating circumstances that we're not aware of!
You know, such as she may had cheated on him and the kid isn't his as one example of a possible extenuating circumstance, then who would be the scumbag?
Him for sticking with an unfaithful wife carrying the spawn of an affair?
You, just like I, know two parts of fuck all about their personal life...!

Why are you dreaming up all these scenarios to justify Bell-ends behavior here?
Commonsense tells you he is scum.
I had 17 years of criminal scum justifying their behavior with the universal “poor me” excuse and not wanting to take responsibility for their actions.

Yes, and?
That information is on the record for all that are not entirely cut off from media advertisements.

You are the one that raised the topic of how decent females are in comparison to males.
"...women are much nicer than men!!!" "...it is something that I know is the absolute truth."
You've sought to take the gendered narrative.
I've dismissed it with the respect it deserves.
You still fail to get it.
You're a dinosaur Dorothy!

You clearly have a problem with women, get help.

The charges tell us she must also had physical injury.

 

[Mr Invisible]

I had 17 years of criminal scum justifying their behavior with the universal “poor me” excuse and not wanting to take responsibility for their actions.

The one that fucks me off the most is pulling the mental health card.

 

[Trafford10]

The one that fucks me off the most is pulling the mental health card.

That is being used more and more as an excuse!! There is a new prescription for every abnormal behavior it seems.

De Belin will lose his income (my guess $600k pa) if he pleads guilty to anything so it will go to trial I guess. Question does he get paid all the time while waiting for the trial? That could be 18 to 24 months.

Also what was he doing, his wife is no slapper

 

[086]

ha....where did I say "reply" I said I raised the issue with you. It's there in black and white.

"...the issue I raised with you..."
Past tense, you're arguing semantics, where even then, you are in the wrong and full well know it, yet can't help but continue with the authoritarian arrogance of the Goulburn groomed!
Straight up, anyone with two brain cells to rub together, will realise that your inference is that you've stated you've replied to me prior, yet now are seeking to retract as suck via a slight of hand, rather than admit fault!
Your attitude perfectly demonstrates why so many hold issue with the courts, the prosecutors and police as a whole, NIL acceptance and accountability of wrong behaviour/attitude.
Next your groomed mind will likely try and state Ned Kelly deserved what he got, despite his original actions being to protect his sister from corrupt troopers, because they're your kin, thus can't be wrong.

Why are you dreaming up all these scenarios to justify Bell-ends behavior here?
Commonsense tells you he is scum.
I had 17 years of criminal scum justifying their behavior with the universal “poor me” excuse and not wanting to take responsibility for their actions.

Perhaps I was affording you the benefit of doubt and hoping that you would recognise reasonable doubt when it slapped you in the face.
Apparently not!
Guilty until proven innocent mentality at its best!
Once again, no wonder the police fraternity find it hard to socialise and be accepted in the greater society, as that grooming leaves you thinking like idiotic fools and that out of touch with societies realistic expectations, that you don't fit within their space!
Common sense tells you he is innocent until proven guilty!
17 year and you still don't get that?
No wonder the 'poor me' card is played so many times in your experience, as their dealings are with groomed f'wits, who are trained to escalate, rather than dissipate and rehabilitate!
Give a man a fish, he eats for a day, teach a man to fish and he eats for a lifetime!

You clearly have a problem with women, get help.

Yes, I do.
They are placed in an impossible position.
The expectations upon them in this modern world are unrealistic and it is causing issues right across society.
Yet I digress, perhaps it is you whom desperately needs help?
Help with your Stockholm syndrome so your chances of reintegrating back into society are vastly improved, yet I doubt that you will, as you still don't, ahem, can't accept that you thoughts, behaviour and reactions as a whole were altered, changed if you will, at Goulburn, to think, do, and say what an authoritarian body dictated of you.

The charges tell us she must also had physical injury.

They don't state if said charged occurred during a consensual or no consensual act.
They don't state if her personal sexual perversions favour physically aggressive acts.
Hell, they don't state if it was pre-existing.
Once again, so many possible points providing reasonable doubt, that it is far too early to assume one side and hang your hat upon it, yet you have!
Keep on proving my point that you're attitude is antiquated Dorothy!

Next time, try and not cherry pick btw.
Try and complete the entire test sheet Dorothy!

 

[Non pc with morals]

I agree that we are meant to live within a system of law that provides a presumption of innocence until proven otherwise.

Please note that the below is nothing more than my own meandering opinions.

I would agree that there are many things that havent been brought to light.

1. I would imagine that the alleged victim would have felt comfortable enough to share in a vehicle and be alone with the two accused. There has been no reveal regarding the dynamics at play prior to leaving in a taxi back to the accused apartment.
I can appreciate that this says nothing in regards to the potential for a law to be broken.

2. There has been no reveal as to the level of intoxication of any party concerned, whether they were all equally or otherwise inebriated. I find it can be common for people who've been drinking to either downplay certain situations and on the flip side to over dramtise.

3. There is no reveal yet as to how long the alleged victim had remained at the second night venue prior to advising friend(s) of what had allegedly taken place and subsequently leaving to attend the hospital. There has also been no mention of any cctv footage that may display any form of dynamic that was taking place in the line to enter the second venue or if no line, had they spent any time in the club in good/bad spirits toward either party.

The questions I have asked myself as well as scenarios that I've contemplated
1. Are the accused guilty of this crime?
2. What are the natures of both the alleged victim and alleged accused.
3. Had there been any form of encounter between either of the accused and the alleged victim in the past.
4. Is a night on the town with friends going to become a thing of the past for elite, high paid athletes. It seems a worldwide phenomenon that high paid athletes and celebrities stand accused of a great many crimes involving violence towards women. Many of them resulting in lawsuits for damages.
(I appreciate the flip side of all I've mentioned thus far)

5. Did perhaps the alleged victim involve herself in a situation poorly considered at the time and in fear of being slut shamed in a know all and well whispered community take alternate options in self preservation. Perhaps there was even some form of boasting after sexual events had taken place from the accused that have triggered such happenings.

6. Are the alleged downplaying what had actually taken place in their own act of self preservation. The alleged crimes are quite damaging in nature and usually afford lengthy custodial sentences.

I truly hope, but very much doubt that the truth will actually come out. I'm of the firm belief that if truly and overwhelmingly factually guilty that the accused should get their just desserts. If in the case that there is fabrication from the alleged victim that the law should see to punish that crime also.

Until then I still believe in innocence unless proven otherwise. I condemn violence against any person in any way shape or form and i hope that the guilty party gets found out and punished accordingly.

"...the issue I raised with you..."
Past tense, you're arguing semantics, where even then, you are in the wrong and full well know it, yet can't help but continue with the authoritarian arrogance of the Goulburn groomed!
Straight up, anyone with two brain cells to rub together, will realise that your inference is that you've stated you've replied to me prior, yet now are seeking to retract as suck via a slight of hand, rather than admit fault!
Your attitude perfectly demonstrates why so many hold issue with the courts, the prosecutors and police as a whole, NIL acceptance and accountability of wrong behaviour/attitude.
Next your groomed mind will likely try and state Ned Kelly deserved what he got, despite his original actions being to protect his sister from corrupt troopers, because they're your kin, thus can't be wrong.


Perhaps I was affording you the benefit of doubt and hoping that you would recognise reasonable doubt when it slapped you in the face.
Apparently not!
Guilty until proven innocent mentality at its best!
Once again, no wonder the police fraternity find it hard to socialise and be accepted in the greater society, as that grooming leaves you thinking like idiotic fools and that out of touch with societies realistic expectations, that you don't fit within their space!
Common sense tells you he is innocent until proven guilty!
17 year and you still don't get that?
No wonder the 'poor me' card is played so many times in your experience, as their dealings are with groomed f'wits, who are trained to escalate, rather than dissipate and rehabilitate!
Give a man a fish, he eats for a day, teach a man to fish and he eats for a lifetime!


Yes, I do.
They are placed in an impossible position.
The expectations upon them in this modern world are unrealistic and it is causing issues right across society.
Yet I digress, perhaps it is you whom desperately needs help?
Help with your Stockholm syndrome so your chances of reintegrating back into society are vastly improved, yet I doubt that you will, as you still don't, ahem, can't accept that you thoughts, behaviour and reactions as a whole were altered, changed if you will, at Goulburn, to think, do, and say what an authoritarian body dictated of you.


They don't state if said charged occurred during a consensual or no consensual act.
They don't state if her personal sexual perversions favour physically aggressive acts.
Hell, they don't state if it was pre-existing.
Once again, so many possible points providing reasonable doubt, that it is far too early to assume one side and hang your hat upon it, yet you have!
Keep on proving my point that you're attitude is antiquated Dorothy!

Next time, try and not cherry pick btw.
Try and complete the entire test sheet Dorothy!

"...the issue I raised with you..."
Past tense, you're arguing semantics, where even then, you are in the wrong and full well know it, yet can't help but continue with the authoritarian arrogance of the Goulburn groomed!
Straight up, anyone with two brain cells to rub together, will realise that your inference is that you've stated you've replied to me prior, yet now are seeking to retract as suck via a slight of hand, rather than admit fault!
Your attitude perfectly demonstrates why so many hold issue with the courts, the prosecutors and police as a whole, NIL acceptance and accountability of wrong behaviour/attitude.
Next your groomed mind will likely try and state Ned Kelly deserved what he got, despite his original actions being to protect his sister from corrupt troopers, because they're your kin, thus can't be wrong.


Perhaps I was affording you the benefit of doubt and hoping that you would recognise reasonable doubt when it slapped you in the face.
Apparently not!
Guilty until proven innocent mentality at its best!
Once again, no wonder the police fraternity find it hard to socialise and be accepted in the greater society, as that grooming leaves you thinking like idiotic fools and that out of touch with societies realistic expectations, that you don't fit within their space!
Common sense tells you he is innocent until proven guilty!
17 year and you still don't get that?
No wonder the 'poor me' card is played so many times in your experience, as their dealings are with groomed f'wits, who are trained to escalate, rather than dissipate and rehabilitate!
Give a man a fish, he eats for a day, teach a man to fish and he eats for a lifetime!


Yes, I do.
They are placed in an impossible position.
The expectations upon them in this modern world are unrealistic and it is causing issues right across society.
Yet I digress, perhaps it is you whom desperately needs help?
Help with your Stockholm syndrome so your chances of reintegrating back into society are vastly improved, yet I doubt that you will, as you still don't, ahem, can't accept that you thoughts, behaviour and reactions as a whole were altered, changed if you will, at Goulburn, to think, do, and say what an authoritarian body dictated of you.


They don't state if said charged occurred during a consensual or no consensual act.
They don't state if her personal sexual perversions favour physically aggressive acts.
Hell, they don't state if it was pre-existing.
Once again, so many possible points providing reasonable doubt, that it is far too early to assume one side and hang your hat upon it, yet you have!
Keep on proving my point that you're attitude is antiquated Dorothy!

Next time, try and not cherry pick btw.
Try and complete the entire test sheet Dorothy!

"...the issue I raised with you..."
Past tense, you're arguing semantics, where even then, you are in the wrong and full well know it, yet can't help but continue with the authoritarian arrogance of the Goulburn groomed!
Straight up, anyone with two brain cells to rub together, will realise that your inference is that you've stated you've replied to me prior, yet now are seeking to retract as suck via a slight of hand, rather than admit fault!
Your attitude perfectly demonstrates why so many hold issue with the courts, the prosecutors and police as a whole, NIL acceptance and accountability of wrong behaviour/attitude.
Next your groomed mind will likely try and state Ned Kelly deserved what he got, despite his original actions being to protect his sister from corrupt troopers, because they're your kin, thus can't be wrong.


Perhaps I was affording you the benefit of doubt and hoping that you would recognise reasonable doubt when it slapped you in the face.
Apparently not!
Guilty until proven innocent mentality at its best!
Once again, no wonder the police fraternity find it hard to socialise and be accepted in the greater society, as that grooming leaves you thinking like idiotic fools and that out of touch with societies realistic expectations, that you don't fit within their space!
Common sense tells you he is innocent until proven guilty!
17 year and you still don't get that?
No wonder the 'poor me' card is played so many times in your experience, as their dealings are with groomed f'wits, who are trained to escalate, rather than dissipate and rehabilitate!
Give a man a fish, he eats for a day, teach a man to fish and he eats for a lifetime!


Yes, I do.
They are placed in an impossible position.
The expectations upon them in this modern world are unrealistic and it is causing issues right across society.
Yet I digress, perhaps it is you whom desperately needs help?
Help with your Stockholm syndrome so your chances of reintegrating back into society are vastly improved, yet I doubt that you will, as you still don't, ahem, can't accept that you thoughts, behaviour and reactions as a whole were altered, changed if you will, at Goulburn, to think, do, and say what an authoritarian body dictated of you.


They don't state if said charged occurred during a consensual or no consensual act.
They don't state if her personal sexual perversions favour physically aggressive acts.
Hell, they don't state if it was pre-existing.
Once again, so many possible points providing reasonable doubt, that it is far too early to assume one side and hang your hat upon it, yet you have!
Keep on proving my point that you're attitude is antiquated Dorothy!

Next time, try and not cherry pick btw.
Try and complete the entire test sheet Dorothy!

 

[wendog33]

This has nothing to do with the deBellend case but goes to domestic violence very heavily (20 to 1 - or more) purpetrated by men.

It's this kind of selfish, totally over the top tragedy, that swings the public's opinion and probably the Court's and officers views when they have to deal with these incidences.

What gets into a man's head that makes him have so much rage and stupidity to stab a partner to death (in a police station in this instance), leave his children homeless without a mother or a father, facing several years inprisonment and very likely never, ever have a relationship with his children, knowing they, and all his family, hate him and could never forgive him.

Is this the basic difference between men and women that Trafford 10 spoke of.

There's only ever been a handful of women who've resorted to these dispicable acts.

It's incomprehensible.

What clouds mens judgements to enable them to commit rape, murder, coward punches, violence?

Alleged 'vicious' courthouse murder captured on security cameras - https://www.9news.com.au/national/p...-footage/307a6cd6-e46b-4f3b-a67b-50f6ee168cb0

 

[Ironstine]

Something doesn't fully add up here:

- No way I'd be having a shower in the same building as two alleged rapists.
- No way I'd be happy enough to order an Uber for two allegedly rapists.
- No way I'd be up for going to a nightclub after allegedly being raped while also travelling in a small squashed car with said rapists.
- Don't know too many people capable of Nightlub > Sex > Shower > Nightclub. Between sex and shower I'd be done. This is coming from someone that could go through to the next day easily on a big night lol

We've had a fair number of cases over the years in the NRL where the punters get all fired up about reports of what happened before the other side gives evidence. In all the most serious cases the fairy tales which were told before the trial bore no resemblance at all to the truth. All the vitriol directed at JDB before he has been able to give evidence is ludicrous.

 

[Bad Billy]

Going to be interesting to see how this one goes, given shes the only victim/witness

There’s got to be more to it.
He said/she said cases never make it through the DPP.

 

[Mr Invisible]

The other thing too.... surely if it was a money grab on her part it would have got settled BEFORE it went to full trial.