Alternative Power Discussion.

[Mr Invisible]

I reckon this might be an interesting discussion.

People bang on about renewables (such as wind / solar), however these options appear to be way more expensive for power users.

With populations and areas becomming more dense, and coal being a resource that won't last forever, already there are brownouts in some areas of Sydney.

Next issue I can forsee unless something is done, will be forced controlled load on houses, or rationing.

Was reading today that there is a strong push to look at nuclear options using Uranium or Thorium(?), as the country has massive deposits of both, and very little of it is required to get reactions and generate power. The upside would be no CO2 emissions like coal fired power stations apparently.

Article I was reading: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-06-26/industry-super-funds-consider-the-nuclear-option/11248202

That got me reading this too which was interesting in explaining something I still don't completely understand: https://interestingengineering.com/nuclear-fusion-power-in-the-21st-century

Yet almost at the same time, France are closing down nuclear plants over concerns of lower water reserves, and heat: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...-nuclear-power-shutdown-france-cooling-water/

For Australia that would be a major problem given our water reserves and heatwaves.

On the flipside Scotland has had issues with cracks appearing in some reactors, and this guys recommending replacing them with renewables. https://www.scotsman.com/news/opini...-power-is-finished-dr-richard-dixon-1-4957211

My thoughts are:
1. Could a major nuclear disaster occur in a modern day reactor (or is this unlikely given designs differ)?
2. Does nuclear power of any type require lots of water (I'm guessing for cooling/creating steam to turn turbines)? If so out here that may be a big problem.
3. Are there alternatives out there (like Thorium) which can replace uranium and make it much safer?
4. What happens with the spent rods when they are burned out, is that not a major concern?

@Hacky McAxe you're pretty on the ball with this sort of thing.
@Bad Billy I know you have significant experience in this sector

Be interested to know your thoughts.

 

[Realist90]

Why don’t we use human exercise as renewable energy?

 

[The DoggFather]

Why don’t we use human exercise as renewable energy?

We can put the dole bludgers on treadmills and call it "walk for the dole" lol

 

[Memberberries]

Just to quote your coal reference.
Apparently we are going to exhaust oil before coal?
If/when that day comes, whatever coal is left will be the new oil!

 

[Memberberries]

We can put the dole bludgers on treadmills and call it "walk for the dole" lol

Perfect, I think we have found our new employment minister?

 

[flamebouyant]

I reckon this might be an interesting discussion.

People bang on about renewables (such as wind / solar), however these options appear to be way more expensive for power users.

With populations and areas becomming more dense, and coal being a resource that won't last forever, already there are brownouts in some areas of Sydney.

Next issue I can forsee unless something is done, will be forced controlled load on houses, or rationing.

Was reading today that there is a strong push to look at nuclear options using Uranium or Thorium(?), as the country has massive deposits of both, and very little of it is required to get reactions and generate power. The upside would be no CO2 emissions like coal fired power stations apparently.

Article I was reading: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-06-26/industry-super-funds-consider-the-nuclear-option/11248202

That got me reading this too which was interesting in explaining something I still don't completely understand: https://interestingengineering.com/nuclear-fusion-power-in-the-21st-century

Yet almost at the same time, France are closing down nuclear plants over concerns of lower water reserves, and heat: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...-nuclear-power-shutdown-france-cooling-water/

For Australia that would be a major problem given our water reserves and heatwaves.

On the flipside Scotland has had issues with cracks appearing in some reactors, and this guys recommending replacing them with renewables. https://www.scotsman.com/news/opini...-power-is-finished-dr-richard-dixon-1-4957211

My thoughts are:
1. Could a major nuclear disaster occur in a modern day reactor (or is this unlikely given designs differ)?
2. Does nuclear power of any type require lots of water (I'm guessing for cooling/creating steam to turn turbines)? If so out here that may be a big problem.
3. Are there alternatives out there (like Thorium) which can replace uranium and make it much safer?
4. What happens with the spent rods when they are burned out, is that not a major concern?

@Hacky McAxe you're pretty on the ball with this sort of thing.
@Bad Billy I know you have significant experience in this sector

Be interested to know your thoughts.

Scientists and marine biologists are still counting the costs of the Hiroshima fallout, and there is speculation they are about to dump the rest of the radioactive waste in the sea as well.
There is no doubt in my mind that as a race we are smart enough to come up with better solutions for renewable energy. The problem is the people at the top are only concerned with their short term goals. (Yes, my life and yours are both short term in my opinion) politicians just want to be re elected and earn their fat salary, when what they should really be doing is investing in their children's future.
The world can not move forward on this front until the people in power allow us to. When this happens they will allow tax breaks to manufacturers of renewable energy, invest more time and money in R&D, and force mining companies like Adani to pay the tax they should.
Every single house in Australia should have solar panels on their roofs. They should produce them and sell them at cost price to every home owner.
Unfortunately, it will take a major disaster on a world scale to force their hand. Will this be too late?
Nuclear is not the answer.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

Don't have time to write up a full thing now but here's a few quick points:

- yes, nuclear uses lots of water. Roughly double what coal uses. But like coal, it doesn't need to be fresh water which is why Japan put their plants on the coast. It does have potential large impact on marine life though

- heat isn't really an issue. Just use more water

- the dangers related to nuclear are earthquake/tidal wave (Fukushima) and human laziness (Chernobyl). Modern day reactors have protections from the former (plus Australia has a very stable land mass), and processes and audits take care of the latter. Keep in mind that there are over 500 reactors around the world in operation today

- modern reactors still produce waste but not much compared to what it used to produce. We also have a bonus that we have a lot of space for waste like the storage space in South Australia or the middle of Melbourne

- less people have died during the production of nuclear energy than any other energy source, even when you calculate based on death per energy unit created

 

[Hacky McAxe]

Scientists and marine biologists are still counting the costs of the Hiroshima fallout, and there is speculation they are about to dump the rest of the radioactive waste in the sea as well.
There is no doubt in my mind that as a race we are smart enough to come up with better solutions for renewable energy. The problem is the people at the top are only concerned with their short term goals. (Yes, my life and yours are both short term in my opinion) politicians just want to be re elected and earn their fat salary, when what they should really be doing is investing in their children's future.
The world can not move forward on this front until the people in power allow us to. When this happens they will allow tax breaks to manufacturers of renewable energy, invest more time and money in R&D, and force mining companies like Adani to pay the tax they should.
Every single house in Australia should have solar panels on their roofs. They should produce them and sell them at cost price to every home owner.
Unfortunately, it will take a major disaster on a world scale to force their hand. Will this be too late?
Nuclear is not the answer.

I agree with you on the politician part. It's the biggest thing holding us back. But can't agree on the nuclear side. Fukushima fallout was massively overrated. No one died, but there was still some fallout. Many workers received enough radiation to increase their risk of cancer a tiny bit. And they had to create an exclusion zone which moved over 100,000 residents.

Side note, don't build a nuclear reactor where people live.

Even Chernobyl had a lot of Hollywood sensationalism around it. When the reactor initially went off, two people died and neither died due to radiation. There's conjecture over how many died due to short term radiation though as the KGB were quick to destroy documents.

Right now we're at a stage where we have technologies that produce lots of waste. That includes renewables. People don't realise that renewable creation creates a lot of waste and uses a lot of coal (roughly 150 tonnes per windmill)

But renewables are a big part of our future. Renewables and battery together are a great way of producing power while also allowing for baseline protection.

Nuclear provides the lowest amount of waste of all the production sources but it has other downsides (cost and time to set up, waste lasts longer, fear based reaction can be actually very dangerous, etc)

 

[Caveman]

Use nuclear power in the top end of Australia to pump a ridiculous amount of (currently wasted monsoon water) water throughout the guts of aus...

Build a irrigation system of mass proportion that will not only supply Aus farmers with water but can also strategically place hydro power stations along the system for renewable energy..

Use nuclear power as a "starter motor" as such for hydro power and drought reform.

 

[Hacky McAxe]

Use nuclear power in the top end of Australia to pump a ridiculous amount of (currently wasted monsoon water) water throughout the guts of aus...

Build a irrigation system of mass proportion that will not only supply Aus farmers with water but can also strategically place hydro power stations along the system for renewable energy..

Use nuclear power as a "starter motor" as such for hydro power and drought reform.

A friend who worked for the CSIRO came up with an idea about 30 years back to dig an irrigation pitch right through the middle of Australia then use the land to grow food for the world. He could never get it to go anywhere because no one would fund it.

 

[Bad Billy]

My thoughts are:
1. Could a major nuclear disaster occur in a modern day reactor (or is this unlikely given designs differ)?
2. Does nuclear power of any type require lots of water (I'm guessing for cooling/creating steam to turn turbines)? If so out here that may be a big problem.
3. Are there alternatives out there (like Thorium) which can replace uranium and make it much safer?
4. What happens with the spent rods when they are burned out, is that not a major concern?

1. It is almost impossible for a modern reactor to suffer a similar accident to Chernobyl, 3 mile island or fukushima.
In fact that was demonstrated in Japan when when the daichi rectors melted but the daini reactors (subjected to the same tidal wave) shut down safely and returned to operation 2 days later.
2. Yes. Lots of it. More that you could imagine.
3. Thorium is a little bit of a pipe dream. It is an unproven technology, and not likely to become mainstream, because the plutonium left in fuel is coveted by countries with nuclear weapons programs.
4. They get sent off for reprocessing all the valuable or short lived isotopes are extracted and the long lived ones (~1000yr half-life) are cast in glass and packaged in a flask for long term storage.

 

[MattyB]

Scientists and marine biologists are still counting the costs of the Hiroshima fallout, and there is speculation they are about to dump the rest of the radioactive waste in the sea as well.
There is no doubt in my mind that as a race we are smart enough to come up with better solutions for renewable energy. The problem is the people at the top are only concerned with their short term goals. (Yes, my life and yours are both short term in my opinion) politicians just want to be re elected and earn their fat salary, when what they should really be doing is investing in their children's future.
The world can not move forward on this front until the people in power allow us to. When this happens they will allow tax breaks to manufacturers of renewable energy, invest more time and money in R&D, and force mining companies like Adani to pay the tax they should.
Every single house in Australia should have solar panels on their roofs. They should produce them and sell them at cost price to every home owner.
Unfortunately, it will take a major disaster on a world scale to force their hand. Will this be too late?
Nuclear is not the answer.

The problem with Nuclear is there is no way to dispose of the waste, the waste from reactors is stored in tanks and buried.

there is no possible was for it to break down, so eventually places that store nuclear waste will stop as they have no room left.

Renewable energy in Australia is harder than the UK for example where they have a lot of other methods, they use Solar, Wind and water (Turbines are in the sea and they harness the power from the waves that run through it)

Most of Scotland is renewable, even Dubai has multiple cities within it that are 100% renewable

Masdar city (this one I older, but still a lot of good info

Part one:

Part Two:

The SA government are laughing at the rest of us Coal lovers now that they have the big battery, it's saved there ass many times, they even made money from it last year

when Scott morrison passed the piece of coal around in Parliament like he was at fucking show and tell, nobody asked how the Coal was treated before they held it, truth is if you breath in that shit you'll get sick.

Morrison knew this and paid for it to be cleaned and treated.

 

[flamebouyant]

The problem with Nuclear is there is no way to dispose of the waste, the waste from reactors is stored in tanks and buried.

there is no possible was for it to break down, so eventually places that store nuclear waste will stop as they have no room left.

Renewable energy in Australia is harder than the UK for example where they have a lot of other methods, they use Solar, Wind and water (Turbines are in the sea and they harness the power from the waves that run through it)

Most of Scotland is renewable, even Dubai has multiple cities within it that are 100% renewable

Masdar city (this one I older, but still a lot of good info

Part one:

Part Two:

The SA government are laughing at the rest of us Coal lovers now that they have the big battery, it's saved there ass many times, they even made money from it last year

when Scott morrison passed the piece of coal around in Parliament like he was at fucking show and tell, nobody asked how the Coal was treated before they held it, truth is if you breath in that shit you'll get sick.

Morrison knew this and paid for it to be cleaned and treated.

It's funny how a place like Dubai an see the benefits of renewable energy given how much oil they have!! What the ducks wrong with us???
As I understand it, we could harness almost any type of renewable energy here in australia, we just need a government to back it. In fact we need all governments to finally get on board with it and make sure that every elected government has this as a priority moving forward.

 

[Rodzilla]

lets be real, the reason power is expensive is the energy companies know its vital so they choose to charge the largest amount of money they can get away with, they hide their profits and they undermine attempts at widespread alternate energy

if everyone was able to have cheap solar power generation and storage enough to live off the grid then it would be a step towards freedom

 

[Bad Billy]

The problem with Nuclear is there is no way to dispose of the waste, the waste from reactors is stored in tanks and buried

Not tanks. Flasks. Purpose built, flasks.
And, not buried. Stored. In a purpose built waste repository.

 

[Bad Billy]

lets be real, the reason power is expensive is the energy companies know its vital so they choose to charge the largest amount of money they can get away with, they hide their profits and they undermine attempts at widespread alternate energy

if everyone was able to have cheap solar power generation and storage enough to live off the grid then it would be a step towards freedom

Yea, and today, all of Sydney would’ve stayed home because it’s cloudy.

 

[Rodzilla]

Yea, and today, all of Sydney would’ve stayed home because it’s cloudy.

no in the rodzilla plan everyone would have a suitable battery

 

[Hacky McAxe]

Yea, and today, all of Sydney would’ve stayed home because it’s cloudy.

Nah. Every vehicle has the floor removed. No one has to ever worry about leg day ever again.

 

[Mr Invisible]

Running off solar and renewables might be fine... but when people start cranking ducted aircon units and heaters, that's when things go to shit.

Unless I'm mistaken: Say you are using a 2400w heater for 5 hours of a night on full. 2.4kwH x 5 = 12kwH usage. So your solars exhausted already, even a large personal array.

 

[south of heaven]

Use nuclear power in the top end of Australia to pump a ridiculous amount of (currently wasted monsoon water) water throughout the guts of aus...

Build a irrigation system of mass proportion that will not only supply Aus farmers with water but can also strategically place hydro power stations along the system for renewable energy..

Use nuclear power as a "starter motor" as such for hydro power and drought reform.

Ive often thought similar why can't they teroform the most of Australia have water ways though the middle new cities ect