The next 12 months

[GrogDog]

No there is not a lot of talent in this roster- we have below average to average NRL level talent. The real problem is we have have plodders on elite/rep level contracts. At this stage, Besides Reimis Smith, Jackson, Foran, Napa, & Ogden & DWZ no other player would make the top 20 at another NRL club. That is the conundrum for Pay, he only has possibly 6 quality players, the rest he can replace with any from Canterbury Cup & nothing would change. In essence he has a very strong Canterbury Cup roster.

That's your opinion, but I don't agree.. and proof is like I said, at the start of the year the playing group were putting in and pushing fancier opponents right to the end... Now we are facing depleted rosters (e.g roosters raiders and dragons) and getting flogged ... It's obvious the greater portion of the playing group have given up on him ...

I think your both right. We have a bog average team and yet we are still underperforming. I can't see Pay or the team improving, the team selections and chopping and changing are a fukin embarrassment.

 

[Mr Invisible]

The raw talent in our lineup is there, but Pay isn't the person to get the best out of that raw talent/lineup.

Same issue where you can have a "Team of Stars" instead of a "Star Team".

I mean interchanges are killing our players potential and ability to do damage in games, stupid constant team changes as well, and dropping players without telling them why and what they need to work on.

What's resulted is a catastrophic failure of our players morale, and they are now questioning Pays ability to coach. Once that happens it's mutiny on the bounty.

So Pays inability to bring the best out of our lineup, has resulted in poor performances, which has resulted in panicked dropping of players, which has resulted in players turning against the coach.

There's no way for Pay to come back from this. He needs help from an experienced coach who knows how to rebuild and nurture talent.

 

[Trafford10]

Hopoate’s contract this season in $650-$700k, last year Elliott was on $170k last season he’s on $450k, this season, Jackson this season is on $800-$850k, Tolman this season is on $500-600k.
They’re all heavily backended, get worse next season & is the reason they are the first picked week in week out

How do you know this? Elliott on $450k this year? he signed a 3 year deal and is two years in, if total payments for the first two years is $620K as you, so $310k per season as an average how much is her on next year?

 

[TwinTurbo]

No there is not a lot of talent in this roster- we have below average to average NRL level talent. The real problem is we have have plodders on elite/rep level contracts. At this stage, Besides Reimis Smith, Jackson, Foran, Napa, & Ogden & DWZ no other player would make the top 20 at another NRL club. That is the conundrum for Pay, he only has possibly 6 quality players, the rest he can replace with any from Canterbury Cup & nothing would change. In essence he has a very strong Canterbury Cup roster.

That's your opinion, but I don't agree.. and proof is like I said, at the start of the year the playing group were putting in and pushing fancier opponents right to the end... Now we are facing depleted rosters (e.g roosters raiders and dragons) and getting flogged ... It's obvious the greater portion of the playing group have given up on him ...

That's your opinion, which you are of course welcome to express. But I think you are wrong, for a start I have seen no evidence whatsoever that "the greater portion of the playing group have given up on him", in fact absolutely the reverse, most are trying even harder. They simply aren't getting the results that their efforts should be rewarded with, that's a talent question.

As for results deteriorating, it just demonstrates how well we prepared over the pre season we were, playing against teams that weren't so prepared, but now at this stage of the season they have caught up. No real change in the talent available, DWZ not withstanding. So the early season form is a real credit to the players and the coaching staff, but reality has now caught up, the lack of real talent is still there.

The problem, I have with a lot of posters on TK is that they have reached a conclusion eg; Pay is shit, and then filter out anything that doesn't align/agree with their preconceptions ie; they are guilty of confirmation bias.

Go Dogs (it's catching on, keep it up guys)

 

[GDR]

That's your opinion, which you are of course welcome to express. But I think you are wrong, for a start I have seen no evidence whatsoever that "the greater portion of the playing group have given up on him", in fact absolutely the reverse, most are trying even harder. They simply aren't getting the results that their efforts should be rewarded with, that's a talent question.

As for results deteriorating, it just demonstrates how well we prepared over the pre season we were, playing against teams that weren't so prepared, but now at this stage of the season they have caught up. No real change in the talent available, DWZ not withstanding. So the early season form is a real credit to the players and the coaching staff, but reality has now caught up, the lack of real talent is still there.

The problem, I have with a lot of posters on TK is that they have reached a conclusion eg; Pay is shit, and then filter out anything that doesn't align/agree with their preconceptions ie; they are guilty of confirmation bias.

Go Dogs (it's catching on, keep it up guys)

Its funny how you judge others about manipulating information to suit their own narratives.. because you seem to be the master of it...

 

[SweetFA]

That's your opinion, but I don't agree.. and proof is like I said, at the start of the year the playing group were putting in and pushing fancier opponents right to the end... Now we are facing depleted rosters (e.g roosters raiders and dragons) and getting flogged ... It's obvious the greater portion of the playing group have given up on him ...

Well it’s an OPINION Michael McGuire shared when he looked at our roster & salary cap position moving forward prior to Pay’s appointment.

So when you’re referring to fancier to the start of the year you don’t refer to Rds 1&2 where the Warriors & Eels put a combined 76 points on us, are currently sitting 10th (-38) & 8th (+5) respectively, or our purple patch when we beat the Tigers 9th (-45) & were desperately unlucky against the Storm 1st (+188), or the Dragons who are sitting 13th (-62) putting 40 points on us. On Rd 6 we were competitive against the Rabbitohs 2nd (+96)
Yes we performed well against the Rabbitohs Tigers & Storm but were flogged by sides currently running 10th, 8th & 13th.
In the first 6 rounds of the NRL, coaches are experimenting with combinations & often give youngsters & possibles an opportunity to experience NRL.
The biggest indictment on how poor our roster is, just how poor on effort was Rd12 against the Raiders who had 7 regulars on the sideline! You can’t put that on Pay.
Sticky did in conversation that Pay’s roster just doesn’t have it.

 

[GDR]

Well it’s an OPINION Michael McGuire shared when he looked at our roster & salary cap position moving forward prior to Pay’s appointment.

So when you’re referring to fancier to the start of the year you don’t refer to Rds 1&2 where the Warriors & Eels put a combined 76 points on us, are currently sitting 10th (-38) & 8th (+5) respectively, or our purple patch when we beat the Tigers 9th (-45) & were desperately unlucky against the Storm 1st (+188), or the Dragons who are sitting 13th (-62) putting 40 points on us. On Rd 6 we were competitive against the Rabbitohs 2nd (+96)
Yes we performed well against the Rabbitohs Tigers & Storm but were flogged by sides currently running 10th, 8th & 13th.
In the first 6 rounds of the NRL, coaches are experimenting with combinations & often give youngsters & possibles an opportunity to experience NRL.
The biggest indictment on how poor our roster is, just how poor on effort was Rd12 against the Raiders who had 7 regulars on the sideline! You can’t put that on Pay.
Sticky did in conversation that Pay’s roster just doesn’t have it.

there Is more than enough evidence to suggest we should be doing better, there is also sufficient evidence to suggest the coach is making fundamental errors. but you have your opinion and ill have mine..

Also Rickys statement is somewhat tainted.. by his own admission right before that game, he said how close of mates him and Pay have been for many many years..

 

[TwinTurbo]

Its funny how you judge others about manipulating information to suit their own narratives.. because you seem to be the master of it...

But I least I quote the information/data that my opinion is based on, many don't.

Go Dogs

 

[GDR]

But I least I quote the information/data that my opinion is based on, many don't.

Go Dogs

A) Just because you quote something you've heard, does not make it fact
B) just because you interpret information you receive, in the manner in which you do, does not make it gospel and an accurate assessment of events..

im not doubting the fact that you are given information but people in the club.. but I am a realist and I must consider the hundreds of other variables that are at play in these sorts of 'discussions' ....

Are you aware that slandering a fellow employee or boss for that matter, is a breach of the code of conduct in most organizations and may be considered a dismissible offence ??.. that's just one of the thousands of variables you need to consider when people tell you things.. if you think these people are being completely transparent with you, you are extremely naïve..

 

[TwinTurbo]

A) Just because you quote something you've heard, does not make it fact
B) just because you interpret information you receive, in the manner in which you do, does not make it gospel and an accurate assessment of events..
im not doubting the fact that you are given information but people in the club.. but I am a realist and I must consider the hundreds of other variables that are at play in these sorts of 'discussions' ....
Are you aware that slandering a fellow employee or boss for that matter, is a breach of the code of conduct in most organizations and may be considered a dismissible offence ??.. that's just one of the thousands of variables you need to consider when people tell you things.. if you think these people are being completely transparent with you, you are extremely naïve..

All fine, but at least I quote the information that I have utilised to reach the conclusion. Most don't, they just blurt out their opinion without any substance at all behind it.

There are ways to convey one's feelings without dissing on the organisation, a simple "no comment" often gets the message across. I do take what I am am told at face value, but I do look for the substance behind it, a second or third opinion is also valuable. I'm no body language expert but some are so obvious during conversation and can't be ignored.

TK is just like any other forum, a place to go and express one's opinions and vent a little, but there does seem a rather disproportionate amount of venting of poster's spleens without any real support behind it. Just my opinion of course.

Go Dogs

 

[GDR]

All fine, but at least I quote the information that I have utilised to reach the conclusion. Most don't, they just blurt out their opinion without any substance at all behind it.

There are ways to convey one's feelings without dissing on the organisation, a simple "no comment" often gets the message across. I do take what I am am told at face value, but I do look for the substance behind it, a second or third opinion is also valuable. I'm no body language expert but some are so obvious during conversation and can't be ignored.

TK is just like any other forum, a place to go and express one's opinions and vent a little, but there does seem a rather disproportionate amount of venting of poster's spleens without any real support behind it. Just my opinion of course.

Go Dogs

the fact that it is so disproportionate atm , must be a clear indication there's a problem... at the start of the season a lot of supporters on TK were in full support of Pay and the club (myself included)..

The fact they are not now, is not really a surprise, is it ??

 

[wendog33]

All fine, but at least I quote the information that I have utilised to reach the conclusion. Most don't, they just blurt out their opinion without any substance at all behind it.

There are ways to convey one's feelings without dissing on the organisation, a simple "no comment" often gets the message across. I do take what I am am told at face value, but I do look for the substance behind it, a second or third opinion is also valuable. I'm no body language expert but some are so obvious during conversation and can't be ignored.

TK is just like any other forum, a place to go and express one's opinions and vent a little, but there does seem a rather disproportionate amount of venting of poster's spleens without any real support behind it. Just my opinion of course.

Go Dogs

Well there's ALWAYS you to set 99% of everyone else straight

 

[TwinTurbo]

the fact that it is so disproportionate atm , must be a clear indication there's a problem... at the start of the season a lot of supporters on TK were in full support of Pay and the club (myself included)..
The fact they are not now, is not really a surprise, is it ??

Simple pack mentality, the lemmings are following one another over the cliff. Plus far too many had far higher expectations than were realistic and hence are pissed that they haven't been reached. Whereas us realist's expectations were much more realistic, we recognised that had a very average team with a lot of try hards but no real game busters.

Go Dogs

 

[TwinTurbo]

Well there's ALWAYS you to set 99% of everyone else straight

Thank you, I do try very hard to balance out the poor quality posts, but it's an uphill battle.

Go Dogs

 

[GDR]

Simple pack mentality, the lemmings are following one another over the cliff. Plus far too many had far higher expectations than were realistic and hence are pissed that they haven't been reached. Whereas us realist's expectations were much more realistic, we recognised that had a very average team with a lot of try hards but no real game busters.

Go Dogs

I was very realistic in my expectations of this season .. I did not expect to make the 8, but I did expect to build on what we saw at the end of last …. LOL @ try hards… that would intend "effort".. you are on drugs if you think theres effort out there..

 

[Bazildog]

Simple pack mentality, the lemmings are following one another over the cliff.

Go Dogs

Hahahaha..I remember when pack mentality at Belmore was " The strength of the Wolf is the Pack and the strength of Pack is the Wolf".. You remember still dont you Deano?. cause you were gonna bring back the madness..

 

[D- voice]

The board needs 4years to make changes and get us back to a strong club again. After that then they can be judged

The chances of success are limited unless we unite as a club
There are good people in both old and new boards and all are Canterbury people, combined they can bring greatness back to the club
This will finally and truly exorcise the club from both EVILS Greenturd and Hasler !!!

 

[D- voice]

Hahahaha..I remember when pack mentality at Belmore was " The strength of the Wolf is the Pack and the strength of Pack is the Wolf".. You remember still dont you Deano?. cause you were gonna bring back the madness..

Sadly Deano was barking before biting !!!
Warren Ryan told me once...if you want to do something, do it then talk about it !!!

 

[GrogDog]

Sadly Deano was barking before biting !!!
Warren Ryan told me once...if you want to do something, do it then talk about it !!!

Yeah the biggest trait I thought Deano would bring would to be a hardass take no shite coach like his playing days. We haven't seen that, turned into a pussy cat.