It's time for ALL BULLDOGS FANS say enough is enough?

[GirthGorilla]

He would have KPI's that he needs to meet. That said, as others have pointed out, he is NOT on big money. So paying him out if it's not working isn't the biggest problem. The problem is ensuring that whatever coach you decide to get, that you get the right one that complements the team and roster we have. No rush for that until you have done your due diligence, and given Pay every opportunity to meet the expectations in his KPI's.

Justin Holbrook or shane Flanagan.

 

[dogwhisperer]

Thanks for the info mate. Thinking about Pays situation I think the biggest thing keeping him here at the minute is the board making such a big deal about how disrespectful the last board was to Des. It’s going to look highly hypocritical if they punt him mid season and they know the media will have a field day with it. I think it’s going to get to the point soon where their hand is forced.

You are 100% correct.
The board are burning at the moment. They can't just sack him after they just extended him. They will lose all credibility.
As I said before they knew he was below par but they never expected him to be that bloody bad.
But yes, it will get to the point where they will pull the trigger, when? I don't know.

Personally, and this is just my guess, I reckon end of season he'll get the punt.

 

[TwinTurbo]

I’m well aware that there’s more to it then just on field performance but there are players that just haven’t been performing and deserve to be dropped and aren’t. Maybe being part of the leadership group is saving their skin?

Obviously, but if there is no one better to replace them what do we do? Sacrifice overall performance to satisfy some blood lust and drop players just for the sake of dropping them. Woohoo everyone's happy on TK because we dropped Elliot, and replaced him with ............... Mundine. Good Elliot's gone, now who's the next target?

Go Dogs

 

[Spoonman84]

Obviously, but if there is no one better to replace them what do we do? Sacrifice overall performance to satisfy some blood lust and drop players just for the sake of dropping them. Woohoo everyone's happy on TK because we dropped Elliot, and replaced him with ............... Mundine. Good Elliot's gone, now who's the next target?

Go Dogs

Well I question your knowledge if you think Mundine would be a suitable replacement....there’s plenty more suitable options at lock to replace Elliott that won’t affect overall performance.

 

[AlzzBulldog]

Thanks for the info mate. Thinking about Pays situation I think the biggest thing keeping him here at the minute is the board making such a big deal about how disrespectful the last board was to Des. It’s going to look highly hypocritical if they punt him mid season and they know the media will have a field day with it. I think it’s going to get to the point soon where their hand is forced.

But they criticized the last board for re signing des early but then they went and done the same thing fuck the board

 

[TwinTurbo]

Well I question your knowledge if you think Mundine would be a suitable replacement....there’s plenty more suitable options at lock to replace Elliott that won’t affect overall performance.

FFS I wasn't suggesting Mundine, just running out of players without discipline problems. Who do you suggest?

Go Dogs

 

[Shire Dog]

I agree. They absolutely have the best interest of our club at heart.
They will work themselves out of this. They've done some great things.
Look, I went a little cold on them over the last few weeks after supporting them strongly for the first 16 months from their appointment.
But I've had a little chat with one of the board members as I was saying before and I can really see the big picture.
Some of the things that was explained to me really made sense, AND NO I wasn't fed bullshit as I'm old enough and wise enough to know when I've been fed bullshit.
They may have made some errors as all humans do, but people got to understand when board room decisions are made they vote on it and not all board members agree, sometimes a vote on a decision may go 4-3.
I don't go fishing for information and ask for names of players we are chasing as I respect the board members integrity and that is not what a friendship is based on.

This is what was important:

1. The Pay extention wasn't agreed on by all board members, but the ones who said no were out voted. It was designed to take the heat off the playing group. If worse comes to worse they can easily flick Pay off, he's on peanuts, and I mean Peanuts!!
This strategy seems to have backfired because they didn't expect the playing group to perform this badly, they are dissapointed with the trust they gave him. Even Chris Anderson is scratching his head on some of Pays team selections and player positions. The big one I hear is dropping CHN.

2. Board members cannot and will not interfere in the day to day operations of the football team. That's what the admin and management team are there for.

3. They have fast forwarded our salary cap issues by 12 months. We can buy players sooner rather than later. They are on the hunt to get good bargain buys like DWZ where the other club are paying part of their contract. And they are looking for more.
This is in reverse to what we did with Graham, Woods etc....the pendulum is swinging the other way now.

4. Junior development is in full force - When a player leaves our club they want to make sure we have someone with talent coming through ready to fill that spot, mix that in with a few senior players and a couple of marquees and you have a really strong outfit.

5. This one is a big one for anyone reading this - They do not give a shit if they get voted out, their main concern is putting the club back on track with great junior development and a balanced salary cap with a big purse string to buy gun players to be a force again. In other words, they'll gladly take the hit to make the club great again. To me that's BIG, that's what you call having love for the club.

Thanks for sharing that first hand information regarding our organisation and the inner workings
I don’t think at times we really understand just how complicated it is to balance everything from staff,players,finance and us fans of coarse
All I can do is to still turn up during these tough times and urge others also not to loose the faith
The only thing I expect from our board is honesty in taking our great club forward,nothing else
They have my backing 100%

 

[Spoonman84]

FFS I wasn't suggesting Mundine, just running out of players without discipline problems. Who do you suggest?

Go Dogs

Jacko at lock and Martin or CHN at second row. There’s plenty of options and I’m not buying that every single other backrow option has discipline problems big enough to keep them from playing NRL.

 

[DT]

I would have thought getting more than 50 people to the stadium yesterday was a win for the club the way this current team is playing sadly

 

[LordSidious66]

Sorry for my optimism, but I was talking to someone from the club for an hour this afternoon. Things will get better. Pay isn’t an issue, they can flick off him easily. They don’t want to flick him now because they just extended him for another year only 2 months ago, it will look stupid, just give them time they will do it. What’s happening is that Pay is really stressed and he’s stressing the players out, they are scared to play footy and throw the ball around. Board are very upset, they knew he was below par, but they never thought he’d be this bad, he’s actually gone down to a new level.

Well shouldn't someone be trying to calm both him and the players down? If he is Mental health is as concerning as you said, shouldn't they tell him to seek counseling?

 

[Novdoggie]

How many times do some people have to be told, they can't pull a rabbit out of their hat, there is a cap position that severely limits what they can do this year and to a lesser extent next year. Sure they can release players (they did that), sure they can sign players within this year's cap limitations (they did that) sure they can sign decent (not gun) players for next year (they did that too). The fact is there is no silver bullet out of the current situation, it's going to take steady measured steps, many of them, one by one. If you can't see the current status and the movements then you're either blind or simply don't want to see.

Go Dogs

The main concern we have right now besides our playing roster is the coach and his staff. Sure, changes are being made to the roster and that's what we need and want for the better of our future but there is no point sticking with Pay and Co. when he is not in the future plans, is all I am saying. It's totally unproductive which is showing out on the field.

 

[Novdoggie]

is there a performance clause in Pays contract extension ??

He is Teflon Dean atm

 

[Novdoggie]

You are 100% correct.
The board are burning at the moment. They can't just sack him after they just extended him. They will lose all credibility.
As I said before they knew he was below par but they never expected him to be that bloody bad.
But yes, it will get to the point where they will pull the trigger, when? I don't know.

Personally, and this is just my guess, I reckon end of season he'll get the punt.

The board over reacted when we won a couple games. That's when credibility needed to be questioned. A poor business decision and now they want to save embarrassment by keeping Pay on. Sometimes the wrongs need to be admitted and that's when you gain more credibility by doing so. Keeping Pay on for their own benefit shows no guts.

 

[dogwhisperer]

Thanks for sharing that first hand information regarding our organisation and the inner workings
I don’t think at times we really understand just how complicated it is to balance everything from staff,players,finance and us fans of coarse
All I can do is to still turn up during these tough times and urge others also not to loose the faith
The only thing I expect from our board is honesty in taking our great club forward,nothing else
They have my backing 100%

No worries mate, but it's not really top secret information, it was a good old fashion truth chat.
The inner workings of the club will never be revealed to any of us, it was just enough info to paint a picture of where we're heading.
Just mainly about how the boardroom works, how they have to maintain their distance from the day to day operations.
Their dissapointment in our results etc, trust me they are hurting just as much as we are.
You got to remember some board members have full time jobs and other responsibilities outside of the club. And they do not get paid much, mainly just reimbursements for expenses in relation to fullfilling their roles as directors.
They work hard for not much in return, they do it because they love the club.

 

[B-Train]

I appreciate all of what DogWhisperer said regarding the club but despite them not wanting to seem like hypocrites for sacking Pay, it's clearly in the best interests of the club and playing group to do it as soon as possible.

Worrying about seeming like hypocrites or what people think is putting their reputations before the clubs performance which is the opposite of what DW said their intentions are.

I believe they are genuine in their love for the club but I feel their inaction in firing Pay is doing too much harm to be ignored any longer. We would all praise them for firing him and the payout would be minimal so I really don't know what they're worried about.

Surely if we cop some floggings in the next month during this tough run they have to axe him? Waiting til the end of the season is too long. That's another few months our young players like CHN, Ogden and To'omaga aren't developing in FG because Pay's favourites have to get all of the minutes...

 

[dogwhisperer]

The board over reacted when we won a couple games. That's when credibility needed to be questioned. A poor business decision and now they want to save embarrassment by keeping Pay on. Sometimes the wrongs need to be admitted and that's when you gain more credibility by doing so. Keeping Pay on for their own benefit shows no guts.

Ummm...nah not really, it's more about the credibility of the club as a whole. I personally think this lot are putting their personal interests to the side.
But that's just my view.

 

[Novdoggie]

I appreciate all of what DogWhisperer said regarding the club but despite them not wanting to seem like hypocrites for sacking Pay, it's clearly in the best interests of the club and playing group to do it as soon as possible.

Worrying about seeming like hypocrites or what people think is putting their reputations before the clubs performance which is the opposite of what DW said their intentions are.

I believe they are genuine in their love for the club but I feel their inaction in firing Pay is doing too much harm to be ignored any longer. We would all praise them for firing him and the payout would be minimal so I really don't know what they're worries about.

Surely if we cop some floggings in the next month during this tough run they have to axe him? Waiting til the end of the season is too long. That's another few months our young players like CHN, Ogden and To'omaga aren't developing in FG because Pay's favourites have to get all of the minutes...

Everything you say is 100% correct. Why do we have to wait any longer to sack Pay before we become a laughing stock of the NRL, if we aren't already.

 

[wendog33]

I appreciate all of what DogWhisperer said regarding the club but despite them not wanting to seem like hypocrites for sacking Pay, it's clearly in the best interests of the club and playing group to do it as soon as possible.

Worrying about seeming like hypocrites or what people think is putting their reputations before the clubs performance which is the opposite of what DW said their intentions are.

I believe they are genuine in their love for the club but I feel their inaction in firing Pay is doing too much harm to be ignored any longer. We would all praise them for firing him and the payout would be minimal so I really don't know what they're worries about.

Surely if we cop some floggings in the next month during this tough run they have to axe him? Waiting til the end of the season is too long. That's another few months our young players like CHN, Ogden and To'omaga aren't developing in FG because Pay's favourites have to get all of the minutes...

If we cop those floggings in the next few weeks that we all fear, that will probably raise the stakes to DEFCON 2 at least, so who knows.

The Board have seen us drop our bundle with Des and rush stuff last minute when it all collapsed. I guess they are ensuring they can hold up their standards and ethics to us by giving Pay every chance to dig his way out.

We don't think it will improve and probably they don't either but any professional business committee in this no win situation has to make sure the club has explored all remedies.

We'd just go in and slash and burn but I can see they have to be making unemotional decisions. Dumping your coach and dealing with all the fallout from that is not to be taken lightly.

I hope their approach is the best one.

 

[B-Train]

If we cop those floggings in the next few weeks that we all fear, that will probably raise the stakes to DEFCON 2 at least, so who knows.

The Board have seen us drop our bundle with Des and rush stuff last minute when it all collapsed. I guess they are ensuring they can hold up their standards and ethics to us by giving Pay every chance to dig his way out.

We don't think it will improve and probably they don't either but any professional business committee in this no win situation has to make sure the club has explored all remedies.

We'd just go in and slash and burn but I can see they have to be making unemotional decisions. Dumping your coach and dealing with all the fallout from that is not to be taken lightly.

I hope their approach is the best one.

Time will tell. I just hate the notion of "writing off" the season or 10 or more games. Having our best prospects not play during those games means it slows their development and we risk losing them before we saw what they could do..

Just fire Pay, put Georgallis or someone else as an interim coach with a mandate of playing attacking footy and developing our youngsters. Then hire a new full time coach when the time is right.

 

[GoTheDoggies]

No quality coach will walk into this mess.

Sacking Pay might give us a temporary lift in results but this dud roster will still finish last.

Probably won't attract a top coach until 2020 or most likely 2021