It's time for ALL BULLDOGS FANS say enough is enough?

immortalbulldog

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First of all,I still get to see at least 5 or 6 home games a year ,and will always support my dogs,but blind Fred can tell you our,club has been run by idiots, hasler,had till the end of 2017,and let him go,instead they offer a 2 year extension,pay has a shocking record to date,instead of giving him till seasons end,to make a business decision,they extend him for another year,is this the way you run a business,ps the hasler resigning cost us another mill
All Hasler stuff done under last board. Well known.

I don’t see a problem with signing pay for another year. The problems are within the quality of the players. You can’t exactly implement an expansive game plan if the players aren’t up to it. It’s also not an nrl coaches job to teach players to catch and pass.

I honestly don’t know what people expected of pay. He was always pushing shit up hill. We had to release players last year to be able to fill our squad this year.
 

Alan79

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First of all,I still get to see at least 5 or 6 home games a year ,and will always support my dogs,but blind Fred can tell you our,club has been run by idiots, hasler,had till the end of 2017,and let him go,instead they offer a 2 year extension,pay has a shocking record to date,instead of giving him till seasons end,to make a business decision,they extend him for another year,is this the way you run a business,ps the hasler resigning cost us another mill
Hopefully we have more astute management in place at the moment. Looking at the fact that we recruited an actual Fullback (as opposed to a winger who could fill in) a halfback (as opposed to not having one for 5 years and paying marquee wages to dudbye) gives me some hope that the board won't bend over for player managers because some fans are throwing tantrums.

The path the old board took was to splash cash on back ended deals and hope that we got lucky with overpriced duds like Lichaa. The new board is opting to follow a more sensible approach. They have limited budget to buy marquee players right now, so they've implemented changes to our player development. Hopefully as cap space frees up we'll also be seeing our junior development starting to see benefits. I'm personally tired of paying overs for guys that weren't even top 17 players before we recruited them. You know there are some shit decisions being made when the old board forked out 300k/season to guys like Abbey and Lloyd Perrett prior to them getting a run in the NRL.

The extension of Pays contract mightn't be the best decision. But changing coaches every five minutes has never worked out well for other clubs. If he's not improving the squad soon his job won't be safe either. But for all we know the club might have plans in place regarding his replacement already. For all we know Bellamy might be off contract in 2021 and the plan is to move heaven and earth to get him here.

I'm not in the loop on these decisions, nor are you. But the old board talked a good game but produced worsening results with each passing year. These guys inherited the mess at the end of it all. Unfortunately the emergency case with Dumbledore in it to cast some spells and save the day was removed by the old board. They can't use magic to fix the issues. They have to work at it. It's not an easy process. Be frustrated by the n field results, but give the board time to fix things so we have a sustainable plan to succeed in the long term.
 

DT

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Hopefully we have more astute management in place at the moment. Looking at the fact that we recruited an actual Fullback (as opposed to a winger who could fill in) a halfback (as opposed to not having one for 5 years and paying marquee wages to dudbye) gives me some hope that the board won't bend over for player managers because some fans are throwing tantrums.

The path the old board took was to splash cash on back ended deals and hope that we got lucky with overpriced duds like Lichaa. The new board is opting to follow a more sensible approach. They have limited budget to buy marquee players right now, so they've implemented changes to our player development. Hopefully as cap space frees up we'll also be seeing our junior development starting to see benefits. I'm personally tired of paying overs for guys that weren't even top 17 players before we recruited them. You know there are some shit decisions being made when the old board forked out 300k/season to guys like Abbey and Lloyd Perrett prior to them getting a run in the NRL.

The extension of Pays contract mightn't be the best decision. But changing coaches every five minutes has never worked out well for other clubs. If he's not improving the squad soon his job won't be safe either. But for all we know the club might have plans in place regarding his replacement already. For all we know Bellamy might be off contract in 2021 and the plan is to move heaven and earth to get him here.

I'm not in the loop on these decisions, nor are you. But the old board talked a good game but produced worsening results with each passing year. These guys inherited the mess at the end of it all. Unfortunately the emergency case with Dumbledore in it to cast some spells and save the day was removed by the old board. They can't use magic to fix the issues. They have to work at it. It's not an easy process. Be frustrated by the n field results, but give the board time to fix things so we have a sustainable plan to succeed in the long term.
Completely agree....the other issue is no coach or player of note 'want' to come here right now, fact!

Right at this moment the Bulldogs brand stinks to high heaven and looks like continuing to rot further due entirely to pathetic decisions made since 2012, fact!

When the team continues to lose games things will only get worse so Pay or whomever is coach has fat chance in he'll of winning games.

Sadly I think we are in for more years of pain & embarrassment & possibly may even get to the point that we are the prime/right club to relocate or die.
I hope this doesn't happen of course but times are tough right now and I don't think we are even half way through this mess.
 

TwinTurbo

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Completely agree....the other issue is no coach or player of note 'want' to come here right now, fact!
Right at this moment the Bulldogs brand stinks to high heaven and looks like continuing to rot further due entirely to pathetic decisions made since 2012, fact!
When the team continues to lose games things will only get worse so Pay or whomever is coach has fat chance in he'll of winning games.
Sadly I think we are in for more years of pain & embarrassment & possibly may even get to the point that we are the prime/right club to relocate or die.
I hope this doesn't happen of course but times are tough right now and I don't think we are even half way through this mess.
I agree that no coach wants to join us NOW, they know and understand full well (something that many on TH don't) the position we are in. They knew it last year and they know it this year and next year. They also know that 2021 releases all of the constraints and we have more cap space than any other team (22 players and over $8m). They also know that we would have no problem paying the maximum the salary caps (there are 2, players and football club) allow and we have the financial backing that guarantees that, which not all clubs do. So whilst this year might not be attractive, next year most certainly will be more attractive because 2021 is a year that they can own a team. But they can't just turn up in 2021, they know that in order to use the cap space and recruit the payers they want 2020 is the year that they have to commit.

I don't agree that players don't want to come here, offer them whatever their managers want (after negotiations of course) and they will come. For sure there will be decisions based on other factors beyond our offering such as loyalties, geography, family etc but when it comes to financial security for them and their family our money is just as good as anyone's and more secure than many. Agents get commission (show me the money), so allowing a player to take a lower value contract because of other factors isn't in the agent's best pecuniary interests.

As long as we remain financially strong relocation will never be on the cards.

Go Dogs
 

Novdoggie

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Haven’t been on for a while but I thought I’d add my 2c worth here.
You really want to know what’s wrong with the club? People like you, with your attitude. Who want success straight away but aren’t prepared to do the work to get there.
To say we are in a position never before seen in our history is laughable. Read up on our history. Focus on the years between 1943 and 1979. I remember my dad telling me of the year we only won 2 games. They were against the Roosters who won 0. You talk about the club losing its honour you may as well include the fans in that. If our fans were as fickle back then as they are now we wouldn’t have a club anymore.

But now because of a lean spell you think the sky is falling in. We know we have a below par squad. We knew it was going to be hard to compete, the experts warned us we were favourites for the spoon yet our fans are bitching and moaning every chance they get.

Our board has said there will be a period of rebuilding and it could take a while. But some of our fans expect to be kept in the loop for every single thing that happens in the club and demand success straight away. There is work to be done and if you don’t see results straight away you see it as someone failing at their job.

We have a coach who was always destined for failure but took the job anyway. Premiership winning coaches walked out of interviews because of our cap situation but Pay sucked it up and said give me a go. Now fans have turned on him because he doesn’t pick their favourites. They think he has no idea because he has had to revert back to a simplistic game plan because our squad lacks the basic skills to complete the most simple of sets.

We have fans who would rather back a player, a fringe player at that, who uses his manager to hold the club hostage by threatening to look elsewhere if he doesn’t get his spot back. A player who has done nothing to ever deserve automatic selection in our team and would probably not get a start at any other club thinks it’s acceptable to air his dirty laundry in public to further destabilise the club and fans would rather back him instead of the club. How can fans complain about losing our tough, no nonsense culture and then back players who spit the dummy if they get dropped. What happened to club first, team second, individual third? So now we have players who want personal success above club success and they aren’t willing to work for it.

As fans we’ve never had more access to the players and club through social media etc. if you honestly feel that the club isn’t as open or engaging with fans as they could be go onto the clubs FB or twitter and see the vile abuse and negativity they get on a daily basis. We announce a signing, fans abuse the club. The club wishes the coach a happy birthday, the thread gets filled with vile abuse and threats that have to be deleted.

If you don’t want to go on Monday don’t go. If you can’t bear watching the way we are playing and want to save your money, I don’t blame you but if you want to pretend your abuse and slander towards the club is somehow going to save the club then pull your head in and go fuck yourself
You say it's people like me who want success straight away" You say that like this year and last are the only years we have been struggling. Open your eyes mate! We have been struggling for at least the past four years and before that lost 2012 & 2014 Grand Finals and haven't won a comp since 2004. Fifteen years ago!! Is this what you call a successful club?

This club made it's name in the 80's let's not deny that with premierships in 80,84,85,&88. That's when the club built it's culture and honor and I can say this that the past 4-5 years all of that has been lost. So, as you say there is work to be done, wow really?!! We are going backwards mate!! We have not even started with work because we are a club that is currently stagnant, going no where but backwards.

If you sit there satisfied that we are heading in the right direction with the current work being done, then it's fans like you who are too gutless to speak up, take some kind of stance and will allow this club to slide further than it already has. I'm not prepared to sit and watch the embarrassing performance of the players and coach make a mockery of what was once a great club because I'll say it again as per my original post, the DNA in the place from top to bottom has been lost.

To re-sign Pay was an absolute death wish. So yeh let's go and clap the team and be satisfied when Pay say's the boys are trying, yep see ya next week and we will keep trying. That's what I've had enough of but you seem content with that. It has nothing to do with who he picks as you say because I don't care who he picked so long as we get results, not every week but at least be entertaining ffs! We look like a mob of players who have never seen a try line. This is a common occurrence for the past four years. Is that building for success when we are doing the same shit week in week out? You must be easily entertained.

If we as fans are not being ruthless at our assessment of the club and team then we are accepting the mediocre displays we are currently watching and pay for. Fans in general are passionate, no more than Dogs fans and while I don't condone the abuse on social media it shows what the club means to people and are prepared to either use their voice or feet to take a stand for change. That doesn't make a fan any less a fan than anyone else, not at all.

Sometimes it's not just about winning but it's the heart of the performance that will determine how successful this club is. I no longer see that out on the field. I have been a member for 15 consecutive years and paid my way for this club. So I have seen and experienced some rough times with the club and stuck solid. I'll take action on how I see fit as I can tell you now the club will listen to those who have put their hard earned money into the club.
 
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froggy

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Haven’t been on for a while but I thought I’d add my 2c worth here.
You really want to know what’s wrong with the club? People like you, with your attitude. Who want success straight away but aren’t prepared to do the work to get there.
To say we are in a position never before seen in our history is laughable. Read up on our history. Focus on the years between 1943 and 1979. I remember my dad telling me of the year we only won 2 games. They were against the Roosters who won 0. You talk about the club losing its honour you may as well include the fans in that. If our fans were as fickle back then as they are now we wouldn’t have a club anymore.

But now because of a lean spell you think the sky is falling in. We know we have a below par squad. We knew it was going to be hard to compete, the experts warned us we were favourites for the spoon yet our fans are bitching and moaning every chance they get.

Our board has said there will be a period of rebuilding and it could take a while. But some of our fans expect to be kept in the loop for every single thing that happens in the club and demand success straight away. There is work to be done and if you don’t see results straight away you see it as someone failing at their job.

We have a coach who was always destined for failure but took the job anyway. Premiership winning coaches walked out of interviews because of our cap situation but Pay sucked it up and said give me a go. Now fans have turned on him because he doesn’t pick their favourites. They think he has no idea because he has had to revert back to a simplistic game plan because our squad lacks the basic skills to complete the most simple of sets.

We have fans who would rather back a player, a fringe player at that, who uses his manager to hold the club hostage by threatening to look elsewhere if he doesn’t get his spot back. A player who has done nothing to ever deserve automatic selection in our team and would probably not get a start at any other club thinks it’s acceptable to air his dirty laundry in public to further destabilise the club and fans would rather back him instead of the club. How can fans complain about losing our tough, no nonsense culture and then back players who spit the dummy if they get dropped. What happened to club first, team second, individual third? So now we have players who want personal success above club success and they aren’t willing to work for it.

As fans we’ve never had more access to the players and club through social media etc. if you honestly feel that the club isn’t as open or engaging with fans as they could be go onto the clubs FB or twitter and see the vile abuse and negativity they get on a daily basis. We announce a signing, fans abuse the club. The club wishes the coach a happy birthday, the thread gets filled with vile abuse and threats that have to be deleted.

If you don’t want to go on Monday don’t go. If you can’t bear watching the way we are playing and want to save your money, I don’t blame you but if you want to pretend your abuse and slander towards the club is somehow going to save the club then pull your head in and go fuck yourself
I'll turn your post around and say you're the type of supporter that this club is now indicative of. Your "who cares if we don't win for 5 years" attitude.

How dare some of us supporters expect us to win a few games. How dare some of us supporters expect us to play attractive football. How dare some of us supporters expect Pay to stop picking his favourites and actually pick players in their right positions. How dare some of us supporters want to break our 15 year premiership drought.

Supporters that pay their hard earned money have a right to see a light at the end of the tunnel. In 2007-2008 we were terrible. We won the spoon and SBW left and the world was falling around us. However we had hope as the management could see the debacle and acted quickly and decisively. Its always been the clubs way. Bullfrog never let the club meander through season after season. Where's the light at the end of this tunnel? If this management can't fix it then get someone in that can. I'm sick of hearing about our salary cap problems when we have let go of over $5M in players over the last two years and replaced them with reserve graders. Everyone at the club is hiding behind our "salary cap position". Are we expected to just suck it for two more years and then hope this mob can somehow get us out of this?

Before we turn into Parramatta we need leadership at this joint and not excuse after excuse.
 
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AlzzBulldog

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People make it as if we spent 50 million on our cap, give me a fucking break this board are a bunch of fucking liars who are still blaming previous board, they dont want to be held accountable for anything so they keep milking the cap situation for as long as they can
 

TwinTurbo

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If I was any one of those players you've mentioned I would be asking, who will be the coach? You see, none of those players will play under Pay especially after being coached by Bellamy, Robinson etc etc. These type of coaches don't need to over-pay players to stay, the player simply wants to play under coaches who can teach them a thing or two to help build their careers. Over the past six years we have only burnt careers of players or have let the good ones leave. So who should we chase as coach?
I don't agree, sure some players will take less than they are worth to stay where they are, geography has attractions, especially the one team cities like Melbourne, Brisbane and Toonsville. But that notwithstanding there is for certain a limit as to how much less, if a player is worth say $500k a year and we offer that, will he stay at the Chooks for $300k? I don't think so, unlikely for 1 year, but for 3 years, that's $600k he's given away, rather unlikely. Eventually even the Chooks have to run out of salary cap. So if we offer market or even slightly above market then we will get our fair share of players. Just signing 1 or 2 strike players will increase our attractiveness to others.

The fact is the coach of a team this year is not guaranteed to be the coach next year and even less the year after. Players who signed for Brisbane last year had no idea that Seibold would be their coach this year, ditto Morris, Hasler, Clearly, Bennett and Maguire. That's 6 out of 16 teams with players who signed thinking a different coach would be coaching them.

We can start negotiating with players for 2021 in November this year and even if all we do is push up their expectations from the their current club then we will have achieved something. We are active in the market currently for players off contract this year, Stimson being the most recent acquisition. I have no reason not to expect that activity to ramp up post November.

Go Dogs
 

Novdoggie

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I don't agree, sure some players will take less than they are worth to stay where they are, geography has attractions, especially the one team cities like Melbourne, Brisbane and Toonsville. But that notwithstanding there is for certain a limit as to how much less, if a player is worth say $500k a year and we offer that, will he stay at the Chooks for $300k? I don't think so, unlikely for 1 year, but for 3 years, that's $600k he's given away, rather unlikely. Eventually even the Chooks have to run out of salary cap. So if we offer market or even slightly above market then we will get our fair share of players. Just signing 1 or 2 strike players will increase our attractiveness to others.

The fact is the coach of a team this year is not guaranteed to be the coach next year and even less the year after. Players who signed for Brisbane last year had no idea that Seibold would be their coach this year, ditto Morris, Hasler, Clearly, Bennett and Maguire. That's 6 out of 16 teams with players who signed thinking a different coach would be coaching them.

We can start negotiating with players for 2021 in November this year and even if all we do is push up their expectations from the their current club then we will have achieved something. We are active in the market currently for players off contract this year, Stimson being the most recent acquisition. I have no reason not to expect that activity to ramp up post November.

Go Dogs
We have just re-signed Pay for another year. I don't think that's a good message to send to off contracted players at other clubs to come to the Dogs considering his win loss ratio and the rumblings within the ranks. In fact it could deeply hinder our chances of getting the cream of the crop of players no matter what $$ are on offer.

This is now a management issue who need to swallow their pride and admit they got this one wrong, with Pay. Bring a new and reputable coach in now so we can gain interest from top class players not just fringe players.

I was refraining from saying this earlier to support my case with my angst against the club but I'll tell you this, that I have spoken to a source inside the four walls of the Dogs that we were on the verge of a major signing, but it wasn't the player who has baulked at coming, it was his player manager because he see's the players career stalling under Pay and won't risk it because in the end it's not just about the short term gain, but the long term future.

That is a bloody major worry......

We are competing with other clubs in the player market who also have money to spend and the defining decision from the player/player manager considering signing with us could come down to who is coach. Do we have a year to waste? I don't think so.

Time will tell who we do get but until the club puts more certainty in the coaching ranks, money can only go so far.
 
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Kaz

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People make it as if we spent 50 million on our cap, give me a fucking break this board are a bunch of fucking liars who are still blaming previous board, they dont want to be held accountable for anything so they keep milking the cap situation for as long as they can
The board aren't magicians.

The clusterfuck they inherited isn't going to be resolved within a few years.

It will take time to sort the shit from clay.

I bet it's a lot worse than what they have admitted too.

They really can't say Dib is an arsehole etc, because he has media contacts that defend him to the death.
 

TwinTurbo

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We have just re-signed Pay for another year. I don't think that's a good message to send to off contracted players at other clubs to come to the Dogs considering his win loss ratio and the rumblings within the ranks. In fact it could deeply hinder our chances of getting the cream of the crop of players no matter what $$ are on offer.
This is now a management issue who need to swallow their pride and admit they got this one wrong, with Pay. Bring a new and reputable coach in now so we can gain interest from top class players not just fringe players.
I was refraining from saying this earlier to support my case with my angst against the club but I'll tell you this, that I have spoken to a source inside the four walls of the Dogs that we were on the verge of a major signing, but it wasn't the player who has baulked at coming, it was his player manager because he see's the players career stalling under Pay and won't risk it because in the end it's not just about the short term gain, but the long term future.
That is a bloody major worry......
We are competing with other clubs in the player market who also have money to spend and the defining decision from the player/player manager considering signing with us could come down to who is coach. Do we have a year to waste? I don't think so.
Time will tell who we do get but until the club puts more certainty in the coaching ranks, money can only go so far.
We don't have much cap space to worry too much about who is going to sign for next year. Just 1 strike player will exhaust our cap as it stands right now.
Pay's contract finishes at the end of next season, that's 2020.
Contracts from November can be signed for 2021, when Pay's contract is finished.
No one knows who our coach will be in 2021.
We are far from the only club where players will not play under the coach that they thought they would when they signed their contracts eg; 6 coaches this year.
So any manager who is advising their players what team to play for next year or the year after based on who the coach is right now is rather naive.


Go Dogs
 

WFC03

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As I mentioned in my post, I am a paying member for 15 consecutive years so I'd say I am a fan that has supported the club no matter what the situation has been. I doubt this the case for most on here who think they are loyal fans who barely go out to games. I'd also say I'm entitled to my angst towards the club which is giving me no return for my money over the years so this is one way of showing how I feel.

If you want to sit back and accept the work of Dean Pay and how he is performing as head coach, continue supporting him by turning up to games (if you really do go) because unless you show your disapproval with your feet, your voice won't be heard.
I am a paid member and travel further than most to get to home games living in manly territory.

I was there in 2002 when we had our points stripped, I was there in 2005 when we got smashed by 50 plus in the last 2 home games of the season, I was there in 2008 after SBW left and we were getting smashed every week. I was there when in 2011 after we sacked Kevin Moore and were getting beaten every week and I was there in 2016 and 2017 when we descended into the depths of des ball.

No matter how bad it gets though you show up. Not because you are showing support for the current team or the current board,because they will all come and go, but because of the badge and what it stands for and all the history behind it.
 

AlzzBulldog

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The board aren't magicians.

The clusterfuck they inherited isn't going to be resolved within a few years.

It will take time to sort the shit from clay.

I bet it's a lot worse than what they have admitted too.

They really can't say Dib is an arsehole etc, because he has media contacts that defend him to the death.
We have released Josh Reynolds, moses mbye, Josh Morris, Brett morris, David klemmer, Aaron woods, Greg Eastwood, James Graham, Sam kasiano, only in the last 2 years and that's the ones I can think of
 

south of heaven

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I thought at as a pass mark pay should of been able to scrape the 8 you dont have to be that good to really make the 8 sitting at the bottom aint real flash
 

DT

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I agree that no coach wants to join us NOW, they know and understand full well (something that many on TH don't) the position we are in. They knew it last year and they know it this year and next year. They also know that 2021 releases all of the constraints and we have more cap space than any other team (22 players and over $8m). They also know that we would have no problem paying the maximum the salary caps (there are 2, players and football club) allow and we have the financial backing that guarantees that, which not all clubs do. So whilst this year might not be attractive, next year most certainly will be more attractive because 2021 is a year that they can own a team. But they can't just turn up in 2021, they know that in order to use the cap space and recruit the payers they want 2020 is the year that they have to commit.

I don't agree that players don't want to come here, offer them whatever their managers want (after negotiations of course) and they will come. For sure there will be decisions based on other factors beyond our offering such as loyalties, geography, family etc but when it comes to financial security for them and their family our money is just as good as anyone's and more secure than many. Agents get commission (show me the money), so allowing a player to take a lower value contract because of other factors isn't in the agent's best pecuniary interests.

As long as we remain financially strong relocation will never be on the cards.

Go Dogs
I hear you but my point was that no one wants to come here right now...and if/when they come in the future it will be for the money then we are back to the future regarding paying overs potentially...it's a difficult spot we are in at this time sadly
 

Novdoggie

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So 16,000 was the attendance yesterday. I thought it would be a poor crowd of 20,000 so if the club is not embarrassed by this then they are a disgrace. It's a sad reflection of how many fans have had enough and if you can honestly say to yourself this is acceptable and defend the club, then you are only kidding yourself. What changes did you see in our game plan that was different from the previous weeks? None! In fact we went further backwards yesterday and let's not use Cogger's injury as an excuse. This isn't rock bottom mark my words, we haven't hit that yet, sadly.

I am as gutted as any fan to see where we are at hence my posts but I am glad that the fans are showing their disappointment and disgust of what we have had to endure not just in the past two years but at least the past four.

I am confident that if fans continue to show their dissapointed by not attending games sooner rather than later the club will listen and changes will be made.

The signing of DWZ was all about timing for the club, they needed a feel good story and sure it felt good as things were feeling very stale. But where do you think the real problem is atm? It's simple. Our coaching staff are out of touch with the modern game.
There is no structure which comes back to the coaches game plan. SACK PAY!

The lack of skill in every player is woeful. These guys don't show any flare what so ever, nothing! So our attacking coach, what is he doing with the squad at training? SACK HIM!

Our defense on the edges. This is as bad as it gets. Again, this is something that seems to never get fixed but it's like the game is on replay from the previous week where we see the same defensive errors week in week out. And what has our defensive coach been doing? Yeh nothing to enhance the defensive structures needed to intimidate any team. SACK HIM!

What's the solution?

Make the changes now!! Sack the whole coaching staff and start fresh. What do we have to lose?!! The team have already lost their will to compete, they look lost. Surely you can see that. We are a broken club atm, doesn't anyone get it?
While there are no changes happening we will keep on digging further and further into a whole like we currently are and the only way out of it is to stop feeding and supporting the problem and push to MAKE THE CHANGES NOW!

SACK THE WHOLE COACHING STAFF IMMEDIATELY!!
 
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