Controversy Corner - Grahame Hughes on Dean Pay and whats going on

TwinTurbo

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If there was a choice Toovey would be the go and would attract good players and he has passion, also he's won a gf.
Toovey, seriously, sacked by 2 clubs and had a 26% winning record last team he coached. Went OK for the first 2 years at Manly with players recruited by others, but by year 3 with players he recruited, he failed miserably and was sacked mid season. Do we really want another Manly reject, one that was replaced by .................. Barrett.


Go Dogs
 

JUNKYARD DOGS

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Toovey, seriously, sacked by 2 clubs and had a 26% winning record last team he coached. Went OK for the first 2 years at Manly with players recruited by others, but by year 3 with players he recruited, he failed miserably and was sacked mid season. Do we really want another Manly reject, one that was replaced by .................. Barrett.


Go Dogs
Yeah everytime i see his name mentioned I get crook.
We either need someone the calibre of Bellamy/Bennett failing that
New era of coach like Siebold, the game is changing the old style of coaching is outdated. 2 ends of the spectrum I know.
 

dogluva

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I think CHN, R SMith, Meaney, Cogger, Okunbor, Sue have all shown moments of brillance .. Just not consistently .. thats a coaches job to get the consistency from them

Chris Smith, Elliott, hoppa and Jackson should be dropped ..

Toomaga and RFM should be in first grade ....

we should not be in the spoon position thats all im saying and thats on the coach

Definitely some good comments here.Now we have some of those players mentioned by you, CHN for example, who yes he has a mistake in him but he is also good value. If the coach can see fit to keep some of the plodders in the team who offer little and select them week after week why not persist with some of the others who I reckon are making errors because they are trying TOO hard. I would rather see some effort and an error occur than someone who plays poorly each week but continues to be selected.
Martin has some talent, probably not what you would term a superstar but by golly he lifted the team when he came on. We started to play direct and with some sort of urgency and he gets 29 minutes when others get the full 80 simply because they can last that long, yet they don't offer much else than tackle, tackle, tackle.
Meaney is safe under the bomb and he covers well but he never breaks the first tackle and he has thrown some passes which although they met their mark could quite easily have led to an intercept. I have been waiting for him to get in the clear but unfortunately with our structure and his reluctance to try and step and beat the defender well that has not happened. Why do we not have someone give him hints? The coach does not seem to be doing it so ask for help.
Jesse Sue blew me away with that brilliant tackle to stop what most certainly would have been a Raiders try...THAT in itself should have inspired the team to greater heights because it certainly inspired me to think that they would ride it home.That from a bloke who is new to the club but never gave up...that is the play we expect...

RFM did not have a good game at all and maybe as I said before trying too hard may have been the problem there.He does not look a settled or happy player and that too can be on the coach.
Whichever way we look at it performances have to be consistent and the full 80 something we are not seeing. This year is well gone but in saying that effort has to be shown..I don't want our club to become the one that knows only how to lose which is what we are seeing at the moment....
 

dogluva

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He broke a bone in his foot and it was a long term injury (10-12 weeks).

So what is his excuse for the rest of the time??? Was speaking to a Sharks fan today who was actually salivating over the fact that they will get him back soon...Round 16
 

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Even if we are theres no way either would be on anywhere near $1 million. So again, the numbers do not add up.


Theres no way most of them are on big coin, and certainly not enough to cause the claimed issues
You still do not get it.

Its how they have structured the payments in accordance with the agreed contract.

I.e Greg Eastwood was given a 2 year extension at 900k for the 2 years, so when you break it down, it should be 450k per year. The way they structured Gregs contract was 100k for that first year and 800k the second year.

They did the same with Graham, Mbye, Klemmer, Morris Boys, Jackson, Hoppa and the likes.

They just kept stacking the roster and backending contracts 3-4 years down the track.

I remember very well a few years back it was mentioned that the dogs had re-signed Mbye for $3m over 4 years which comes to about 750k per year, but again, it was not structured like that. It was heavily backended.

I know its hard to comprehend and understand, because from a business point of view, it was ALWAYS going to backfire.

The only way it would work or the only way you would accept it, is if you nabbed a premiership or two over that 4-5 year period and than having to succumb to a couple of lean years.

Most of the backended contracts are gone but we still have Jackson, Hopoate, Tolman, Elliott and Foran who were re-signed under the previous "back-ended scheme". Foran was also signed on massive overs you like it or not.

I understand people who say, how is this bloke getting paid this much and so on, but thats the way the contracts were structured.

Eastwood was backended on 800k in his final year, what do you think the others have been backended to?
 

Raysie

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Toovey, seriously, sacked by 2 clubs and had a 26% winning record last team he coached. Went OK for the first 2 years at Manly with players recruited by others, but by year 3 with players he recruited, he failed miserably and was sacked mid season. Do we really want another Manly reject, one that was replaced by .................. Barrett.


Go Dogs
I don't want no more Manly rejects, but what 2 clubs did Toovey coach? I thought he only coached Manly for 4 seasons and had a 58% winning record?
 

Spoonman84

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You still do not get it.

Its how they have structured the payments in accordance with the agreed contract.

I.e Greg Eastwood was given a 2 year extension at 900k for the 2 years, so when you break it down, it should be 450k per year. The way they structured Gregs contract was 100k for that first year and 800k the second year.

They did the same with Graham, Mbye, Klemmer, Morris Boys, Jackson, Hoppa and the likes.

They just kept stacking the roster and backending contracts 3-4 years down the track.

I remember very well a few years back it was mentioned that the dogs had re-signed Mbye for $3m over 4 years which comes to about 750k per year, but again, it was not structured like that. It was heavily backended.

I know its hard to comprehend and understand, because from a business point of view, it was ALWAYS going to backfire.

The only way it would work or the only way you would accept it, is if you nabbed a premiership or two over that 4-5 year period and than having to succumb to a couple of lean years.

Most of the backended contracts are gone but we still have Jackson, Hopoate, Tolman, Elliott and Foran who were re-signed under the previous "back-ended scheme". Foran was also signed on massive overs you like it or not.

I understand people who say, how is this bloke getting paid this much and so on, but thats the way the contracts were structured.

Eastwood was backended on 800k in his final year, what do you think the others have been backended to?
You couldn't have explained that any better! This is exactly what the cap problem is I'm not sure why so many people have trouble comprehended it.

I think there could be players like Holland and Fualalo on backended deals too. There's a good chance anyone that signed prior to 2018 is backended contract.
 

Dingo

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Mate we're pretty much at Rock Bottom right now. The good thing about this is that the only way is up.
Unless things get worse and we do have a target on us. The Wolves are circling and your sarcasm isn't funny on this occasion.
 
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justdogs

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Because it's easier and it makes them not accountable for what is happening right now. They can gamble on the fans blind faith that will get you through another shit season and then hit the market with stacks of cash and make the club more attractive to potential coaching options.
and by then, is election again
 

bradyk

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I don't want no more Manly rejects, but what 2 clubs did Toovey coach? I thought he only coached Manly for 4 seasons and had a 58% winning record?
upload_2019-6-3_16-2-14.png
 

Wayne Rooney

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Ooh I have heard of another on 800k apparently and he isn't what you would call a superstar.....back ended to play catch-up for accepting minimal...if true really depressing and goes a fair way to explaining our troubles.....
Elliott
 

B-Train

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No other team would want Tolman or Hoppa.
I reckon several teams would take Tolman. Don't get me wrong, I don't rate him but teams like Saints who are in a forwards crisis would take him. Just last year Newcastle and Cronulla had interest in him. He's the same player he's always been and some clubs would find a use for a steady, reliable player like him.
 

wendog33

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You couldn't have explained that any better! This is exactly what the cap problem is I'm not sure why so many people have trouble comprehended it.

I think there could be players like Holland and Fualalo on backended deals too. There's a good chance anyone that signed prior to 2018 is backended contract.
I can understand all that and the time frame. What I cant fathom is who were the big earning players to cause Des to start back ending contracts.

We didn't have superstars prior to 2012. Was the sc set up legally when we bought those players in 2011 and Des found us over sc when he came in.

Thats the sums that don't add up for me. Why did he need to back end cos the roster wasn't high value players. Certainly by comparison to at least over half the other teams.

Anyway done now but to get to this point means we have been spending overs for quite some time for the cumulative effect to kick in.

Madness all round.
 

Spoonman84

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I can understand all that and the time frame. What I cant fathom is who were the big earning players to cause Des to start back ending contracts.

We didn't have superstars prior to 2012. Was the sc set up legally when we bought those players in 2011 and Des found us over sc when he came in.

Thats the sums that don't add up for me. Why did he need to back end cos the roster wasn't high value players. Certainly by comparison to at least over half the other teams.

Anyway done now but to get to this point means we have been spending overs for quite some time for the cumulative effect to kick in.

Madness all round.
I think Des highly rated these players and paid them as such obviously we have a different opinion on that.

Instead of taking our medicine and releasing players he kept rolling the dice and once you start back ending deals the hole gets deeper and deeper.

Just for curiosities sake I wish Des did stay just to see how he would have dealt with this.

As you say it is all done now. I do hope this current board is exploring all options to get the cap back in shape because all we have heard is we are cooked till 2021.
 

CrittaMagic69

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i consider myself a fair person and belive everyone deserves a chance, maybe even a second chance .. i was not willing to judge him as quickly as you.. I wanted a bigger sample size with more variables.. ive got that now and i know that he is not what we need.. Also after finally getting rid of hasler i was just so desperate for our next coach to be good that i was blind sighted by his failings early on.. i have no probs admitting i was wrong .. cant say the same about plenty of others round here..
Fair enough. I just didn't think we were ever in a position to give a coach a chance, we simply needed to select the right coach that could accomplish a set goal otherwise we're no better than the likes of the Titans and Tigers. Pay was never the right person, his record was garbage along with most reports on him.
 

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I can understand all that and the time frame. What I cant fathom is who were the big earning players to cause Des to start back ending contracts.

We didn't have superstars prior to 2012. Was the sc set up legally when we bought those players in 2011 and Des found us over sc when he came in.

Thats the sums that don't add up for me. Why did he need to back end cos the roster wasn't high value players. Certainly by comparison to at least over half the other teams.

Anyway done now but to get to this point means we have been spending overs for quite some time for the cumulative effect to kick in.

Madness all round.
At one stage we had;

Reynolds, Hodko, Williams, Jackson, Brett and Josh Morris all playing Origin.

Kasiano, Eastwood, Pritchard were all Kiwi internationals.

Graham was the England captain

Regardless of peoples thoughts on what each player was/is worth they were paid in accordance to where they were at the time of their careers, i.e International and/or state representatives. Do not forget the clauses which are triggered once you make a rep team.

You than had the Mbye fiasco where his agent was shopping and squeezing every cent out of the dogs.

They had fafita signed at 850k per year before it fell through.

They paid overs for Foran and Woods.

It all accumulates at the end, and it eventually bites you back in the ass.

One thing you have to remember, that spastic Ray Dib was trying to get the coup together (all 15 NRL clubs) to push for a $10m cap when it was about $9m and than go up every year over a certain %

All 15 NRL clubs eventually gave Dib the finger, and he was warned on numerous occassions by Greenturd to work to a 9.2m cap.

The fuckwit thought he was bigger than life and that he would get all 15 nrl clubs up against the NRL to buckle to their requests.
 
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