Do we need time to get back to who we were?

Tassie Devil

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Growing up the Dogs were always a massive part of my life and I know it's the same as you guys. Honestly got so much happiness from them, and in particular in the way we played the game. Yes, success played a massive part of it but for me it was one thing.

Belief.

Belief that no matter who we play, or with what players we have that we could pull a result. Even if we were down, and down by a lot, that the players had that spirit to fight to the end and get a result. The players had this spirit and believed in themselves.

OK. There were some definitely bad times also, but there was mostly that belief and I think amongst the league community we were seen as that team. A group of footy players who could pull a win out of their arses. That would defy the odds and win.

It's what I miss about our great club. That "Dogs of War" mentality. Never give up. We can win it at any time culture. Now we seem like powder puff players if I'm honest. The result over the weekend didn't help.

In saying this, what I've liked about the club, and new board is that we seem to be trying to get back to that. Which I understand and respect. It's who we were, and who we should be now and in the future.

How much time do we allow to get back to that point though? Is it possible to truly gauge whether we're on the right track after 1 round?
 

bowleggedwog

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The neglect of the juniors since that #### dessie turned up is the half the issue. And that will take years to repair. We have some good kids in the system but will take them 3yrs to develop. I hope is to bank on youth. We are in pain for a couple years anyway with cap room. The previous board and coach weren't thinking long term , this board is. We need to develop a few kids and recruit a few kids who have it. We need to steal the sharks recruitment and development guy because they are on a winner there.
 

zac hollywood

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The problem is this plain and simple. Cleal , whitney and McDonnell try to buy every islander boy they can. They sign them on stupid contracts, (normally 500-1000), there manager gives them a free pair of boots, pumps them full of shit about how good they are, mainly because playing in the park on a sat they are bigger, faster, stronger and a lot of the times older (common knowledge in juniors club football, my grandsons team had a islander boy play for them for 3 years before his father decided to tell everyone he was 2 years older than everyone).Buy the time they get to sg ball, other kids start catching up, and the speed and continual effort after effort plays that are required as you go up in level finds them out. I laugh when I hear people talk about certain stars at 17/18 who are charging through sides, but suddenly hit a brick wall at 19-20, because the speed goes up and they either don't have the cardio base to have repeated efforts, or physically others have caught up. and they cant make breaks like they did for 5 or 6 years in juniors so they give it away. The secret is to know what your watching when your watching kids football. You see blokes like McDonnell, whitney, jones, etc... all stand together at junior carnivals, one says something about a kid, the others like seagulls just stand there agree nod there head, ill let you in on a little secret, a lot of these kids are signed off on, by managers sending dvd's to club recruiters talking up bullshit about player stats and so on. Ill give you an example I watched the entire tape of bulldogs vs tigers under 20's, now in all honesty the front rowers went missing, they got hit hard, but more importantly they displayed lazy traits that is ingrained in them from a young age, and you would or should know this from a recruiters point of view if you really know what your watching, these include but are not limited to (getting back on side but continually not holding your space, looking for a rest in the line behind the second marker), deciding not to go high and lock in because if I go low I don't have to push myself to get up and get to marker ill stay on the ground and jog back on the blind, hopefully they will run another two plays that don't involve me and ill rest. About 18 months ago a friend of mine told me we bought a rising star from Parramatta, a gun he said, one of McDonnell best signings junior rep star, Matt Doorey is his name. I watched him once in 20's last year he touched the ball once in the first half and twice in the second as was passenger in defence, in the trial I just watched against wests he was abysmal again. We gave this kid a development contract, now I could tell after watching him once closely what his flaws are, and he has a few, some technique, some no understanding of whats coming at him in terms of shape on the edge... etc.......,and more importantly he doesn't have much speed for an edge backrower and he doesn't bust many tackles, makes you wonder...........
 

Alan79

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Growing up the Dogs were always a massive part of my life and I know it's the same as you guys. Honestly got so much happiness from them, and in particular in the way we played the game. Yes, success played a massive part of it but for me it was one thing.

Belief.

Belief that no matter who we play, or with what players we have that we could pull a result. Even if we were down, and down by a lot, that the players had that spirit to fight to the end and get a result. The players had this spirit and believed in themselves.

OK. There were some definitely bad times also, but there was mostly that belief and I think amongst the league community we were seen as that team. A group of footy players who could pull a win out of their arses. That would defy the odds and win.

It's what I miss about our great club. That "Dogs of War" mentality. Never give up. We can win it at any time culture. Now we seem like powder puff players if I'm honest. The result over the weekend didn't help.

In saying this, what I've liked about the club, and new board is that we seem to be trying to get back to that. Which I understand and respect. It's who we were, and who we should be now and in the future.

How much time do we allow to get back to that point though? Is it possible to truly gauge whether we're on the right track after 1 round?
I'm sure we're heading back to being a powerhouse of a club. Unfortunately only selected teams get salary cap sombreros. So we're forced to do it legally. For this season it means playing with a side assembled on a tight budget.

The mindset of the players can't be judged on the last round. It was a big loss to open the season. But every team has them. If we have a lot of them I'll worry. But for the moment I hope it was just a one off against a fired up Warriors outfit.

I'm reserving judgement on our coach. He has an uphill battle to compete against teams that have managed their cap wisely or cheated it intelligently. And the actions of the board will take time to bear fruit.

All things considered, we can hope that our current roster ups the ante and gives their best. But it's unfortunate that the roster has a couple of areas where we need drastic changes. I feel bad to constantly criticize the hooking department. But I think it's our major achilles heel. And maybe it can't improve much this season. The fact is that we have no option but to ride out what may not be a good season and hope to see the recruitment process improve the roster deficiencies. I'm hoping that we see the side get competitive quickly, but we've had to take steps backwards to move forward. With luck it won't be a dramatically disappointing season. But it's not likely that we're going to see miracles happen overnight.
 

diddly

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The problem is this plain and simple. Cleal , whitney and McDonnell try to buy every islander boy they can. They sign them on stupid contracts, (normally 500-1000), there manager gives them a free pair of boots, pumps them full of shit about how good they are, mainly because playing in the park on a sat they are bigger, faster, stronger and a lot of the times older (common knowledge in juniors club football, my grandsons team had a islander boy play for them for 3 years before his father decided to tell everyone he was 2 years older than everyone).Buy the time they get to sg ball, other kids start catching up, and the speed and continual effort after effort plays that are required as you go up in level finds them out. I laugh when I hear people talk about certain stars at 17/18 who are charging through sides, but suddenly hit a brick wall at 19-20, because the speed goes up and they either don't have the cardio base to have repeated efforts, or physically others have caught up. and they cant make breaks like they did for 5 or 6 years in juniors so they give it away. The secret is to know what your watching when your watching kids football. You see blokes like McDonnell, whitney, jones, etc... all stand together at junior carnivals, one says something about a kid, the others like seagulls just stand there agree nod there head, ill let you in on a little secret, a lot of these kids are signed off on, by managers sending dvd's to club recruiters talking up bullshit about player stats and so on. Ill give you an example I watched the entire tape of bulldogs vs tigers under 20's, now in all honesty the front rowers went missing, they got hit hard, but more importantly they displayed lazy traits that is ingrained in them from a young age, and you would or should know this from a recruiters point of view if you really know what your watching, these include but are not limited to (getting back on side but continually not holding your space, looking for a rest in the line behind the second marker), deciding not to go high and lock in because if I go low I don't have to push myself to get up and get to marker ill stay on the ground and jog back on the blind, hopefully they will run another two plays that don't involve me and ill rest. About 18 months ago a friend of mine told me we bought a rising star from Parramatta, a gun he said, one of McDonnell best signings junior rep star, Matt Doorey is his name. I watched him once in 20's last year he touched the ball once in the first half and twice in the second as was passenger in defence, in the trial I just watched against wests he was abysmal again. We gave this kid a development contract, now I could tell after watching him once closely what his flaws are, and he has a few, some technique, some no understanding of whats coming at him in terms of shape on the edge... etc.......,and more importantly he doesn't have much speed for an edge backrower and he doesn't bust many tackles, makes you wonder...........
I don't have the inside info that you refer to but I agree with your points - particularly the "flexible" ages of some kids, the infatuation with size aparticular shape of player
ive seen Doorey play three or four times - apart from half a game (trial against Canberra) where he looked good he stands on his edge and waits. Of the current flegg side Pitavao and clayton have been consistently good. The trial against west tigers im hoping was an attitude thing - not wanting to get injured knowing they made the squad? Brave man to watch a tape of the west tigers trial - they were ok in patches the week before against Canberra.
Do you know much about Isiah Tass or if the dogs have made any enquiries into the souths Harold matts full back?
 
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zac hollywood

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Don't have a any inside info just what I know what I'm watching. I played the game not at the top level but close, and certainly seen some good players and very good juniors get passed over for whatever reasons etc and I dospeak with some guy's who were once spotters of talent etc.... (I'm in my 50's) ....... Clayton has speed looks ok, not sure if he's been told to carry the ball more, but that's what id be telling him to do, Needs a carry at least every second set if he is playing in the back five, pitavao looks good to me, tass has a few wraps I believe, don't know much about his junior footy, but looks promising
 

diddly

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Don't have a any inside info just what I know what I'm watching. I played the game not at the top level but close, and certainly seen some good players and very good juniors get passed over for whatever reasons etc and I dospeak with some guy's who were once spotters of talent etc.... (I'm in my 50's) ....... Clayton has speed looks ok, not sure if he's been told to carry the ball more, but that's what id be telling him to do, Needs a carry at least every second set if he is playing in the back five, pitavao looks good to me, tass has a few wraps I believe, don't know much about his junior footy, but looks promising
thanks - I too am in my 50s - had some contacts with the club, and other clubs up until a few years back, none currently. It s not just talent identification, or lack of, with the dogs club, - it has been skill development. Since the des regime infestation, kicking passing offloading catching strenghth - really basic skills and requirements have ben neglected. Was hoping it would turn around this year.
sgball have gone backwards this year, will see about the flegg squad this week.
 

top-dog

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A decade that’s how long .
 

Bad Billy

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You can’t buy people and expect them to understand “the bulldogs” and we don’t have the players coming through to win a comp.
We need to face the fact that we may never get back there.
The game has changed.
 

Nakidog

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I'm sure we're heading back to being a powerhouse of a club. Unfortunately only selected teams get salary cap sombreros. So we're forced to do it legally. For this season it means playing with a side assembled on a tight budget.

The mindset of the players can't be judged on the last round. It was a big loss to open the season. But every team has them. If we have a lot of them I'll worry. But for the moment I hope it was just a one off against a fired up Warriors outfit.

I'm reserving judgement on our coach. He has an uphill battle to compete against teams that have managed their cap wisely or cheated it intelligently. And the actions of the board will take time to bear fruit.

All things considered, we can hope that our current roster ups the ante and gives their best. But it's unfortunate that the roster has a couple of areas where we need drastic changes. I feel bad to constantly criticize the hooking department. But I think it's our major achilles heel. And maybe it can't improve much this season. The fact is that we have no option but to ride out what may not be a good season and hope to see the recruitment process improve the roster deficiencies. I'm hoping that we see the side get competitive quickly, but we've had to take steps backwards to move forward. With luck it won't be a dramatically disappointing season. But it's not likely that we're going to see miracles happen overnight.
I'm with you in that I don't think we can blame Pay too much. I attended the match on Saturday and it was clearly obvious we lack the leg speed and power the Warriors brought to the table. At the back end of the first half considering the flogging we were copping our boys still looked fit and in better shape to a tiring warriors outfit. I had hope we could possibly come over the top with a slight breeze at our backs in the second spell if we got a bit more possession in good field position and a few calls from the ref's.

The second half started like the first and again it highlighted the fact we lack the size, footwork and power the warriors back 5 possessed, so our poor pack are working over time to firstly get back to start each set then work hard in defence. I think it was just a case of us being off and the warriors taking every chance that came their way on Saturday. But I'd like to see these changes if I'm honest.

Meany to fullback, Hoppa to wing, CHN to centre, Smith and Holland on the right. Chris Smith and R Martin to be in 17. Chrichton, Montoya, and one hooker to be back to reserve grade.
 

_G-Dog_

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Not about juniors or anything.. its just about good recruitment/retention..

We pickup the right players thats needed we can improve this squad dramatically.. our improvement from wooden spoon 2008 to 2nd 2009 was on the back of awesome recruitment Ennis JMoz Hannant Stagg Kimmorley etc

Looking at the teams that win the comp a strong Junior base is no guarentee for success.. look at the strongest junior bases Brisbane and Penrith - neither have won a comp for 15 years..

While clubs like Roosters Sharks Dragons Souths have won comps since 2010 by bringing in top players from other clubs..
 

Blueandwhiteblood1968

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I'm with you in that I don't think we can blame Pay too much. I attended the match on Saturday and it was clearly obvious we lack the leg speed and power the Warriors brought to the table. At the back end of the first half considering the flogging we were copping our boys still looked fit and in better shape to a tiring warriors outfit. I had hope we could possibly come over the top with a slight breeze at our backs in the second spell if we got a bit more possession in good field position and a few calls from the ref's.

The second half started like the first and again it highlighted the fact we lack the size, footwork and power the warriors back 5 possessed, so our poor pack are working over time to firstly get back to start each set then work hard in defence. I think it was just a case of us being off and the warriors taking every chance that came their way on Saturday. But I'd like to see these changes if I'm honest.

Meany to fullback, Hoppa to wing, CHN to centre, Smith and Holland on the right. Chris Smith and R Martin to be in 17. Chrichton, Montoya, and one hooker to be back to reserve grade.
Lichaa has to be relegated or he can stand outside with all his gear and apologize to every dogs supporter as they arrive, after that hopefully he runs on for the next team were up against and let them suffer year after year of having a crap hooker.
 

Alan79

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I'm with you in that I don't think we can blame Pay too much. I attended the match on Saturday and it was clearly obvious we lack the leg speed and power the Warriors brought to the table. At the back end of the first half considering the flogging we were copping our boys still looked fit and in better shape to a tiring warriors outfit. I had hope we could possibly come over the top with a slight breeze at our backs in the second spell if we got a bit more possession in good field position and a few calls from the ref's.



The second half started like the first and again it highlighted the fact we lack the size, footwork and power the warriors back 5 possessed, so our poor pack are working over time to firstly get back to start each set then work hard in defence. I think it was just a case of us being off and the warriors taking every chance that came their way on Saturday. But I'd like to see these changes if I'm honest.



Meany to fullback, Hoppa to wing, CHN to centre, Smith and Holland on the right. Chris Smith and R Martin to be in 17. Chrichton, Montoya, and one hooker to be back to reserve grade.




I'm not sure what changes are the best choices right now. But it's not uncommon to see a side unexpectedly put another to shame under certain circumstances. Look at our win verse the dragons last season. It may be that we will truly be terrible this year. But one big loss doesn't provide clear proof of that. Kennelers can be massive drama queens at times. And right now I think they're showing that in a big way. I'm certainly not happy about the loss. But it's game 1 and hopefully a clear indication to Pay of where the changes must happen.
 

dogwhisperer

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You can’t buy people and expect them to understand “the bulldogs” and we don’t have the players coming through to win a comp.
We need to face the fact that we may never get back there.
The game has changed.
You know I think about that all the time.

Once upon a time there were Canterbury supporters who grew old a never saw success for nearly 40 years. 1942 - 1980.
 

Tassie Devil

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I really think we need to look at the bigger picture here. Is it even possible to do it the 'Bulldogs Way' anymore?

Looking at society, and the players we have now, everything has changed in the way we see the world. Yes, it's still the 'same' game, but those playing it and what influences them is very different. Look at the scandals about the sex videos, our boys with the Mad Monday drinks etc. as in the past either it wouldn't have happened, or it wouldn't have been seen as such a big a deal. Now it is.

The way a group of people works together is changing. The methods of motivation are no longer just to pump them up to bash and kill because the mentality of football players these days are very different to those even 10 years ago let alone our glory years. In many ways they're more emotional so we need to adapt our approach to reflect that.

One can look at the EPL as an example. Mourinho who you can argue is one of the greatest managers of all time, especially when you look at his record, has completely fallen from grace. His approach was very direct. A complete lack of empathy, or arms over shoulders kind of coaching. Aggressive. My way only. And it worked. But with the new generation of football players they need to feel more loved. So he's completely fallen from grace and classes as a dinosaur in how he coaches the team. See Klopp and his success for an example of how to motivate through a more supporting atmosphere. He stuck with players that EVERYONE wanted benched or sold, but he stuck with them for the greater team harmony. And it worked. He also didn't / hasn't played players who on paper are much better because he wanted to make sure they were ready. And it worked.

Maybe we need to shift our expectations. Be more realistic. It's not possible to replicate the way football was played and coached in the glory years. We can't expect a coach to sack half his team after one round as it would destroy the team's belief in his and their confidence.

Yes, we can say man up. You're paid to do this so do it. But that won't change the fact it'll have a negative effect on the team.

The question is this. How much of the past can we replicate in the way we approach football today?
 

KiwiDog7

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Sonny coming next year we going back to the future
 

habs

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The good old days of turning up and trying hard to unsettle seasoned opposition are long gone. The game is heavily analysed, highly scientific and way too fast. You need quality players. I’m not sure that Pay is really a problem, it’s the rubbish roster we’ve got.
 

habs

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You know I think about that all the time.

Once upon a time there were Canterbury supporters who grew old a never saw success for nearly 40 years. 1942 - 1980.
The club will die if that happens again.
 

Isaac

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Growing up the Dogs were always a massive part of my life and I know it's the same as you guys. Honestly got so much happiness from them, and in particular in the way we played the game. Yes, success played a massive part of it but for me it was one thing.

Belief.

Belief that no matter who we play, or with what players we have that we could pull a result. Even if we were down, and down by a lot, that the players had that spirit to fight to the end and get a result. The players had this spirit and believed in themselves.

OK. There were some definitely bad times also, but there was mostly that belief and I think amongst the league community we were seen as that team. A group of footy players who could pull a win out of their arses. That would defy the odds and win.

It's what I miss about our great club. That "Dogs of War" mentality. Never give up. We can win it at any time culture. Now we seem like powder puff players if I'm honest. The result over the weekend didn't help.

In saying this, what I've liked about the club, and new board is that we seem to be trying to get back to that. Which I understand and respect. It's who we were, and who we should be now and in the future.

How much time do we allow to get back to that point though? Is it possible to truly gauge whether we're on the right track after 1 round?
Looking at the roster, our back 5 are reserve graders no experience except hoppa. How are we gonna match the agility of first grade sides. Who’s tough in the back 5, who’s gonna defend and support the line. None. Compare the back 5 from parra to ours. We will continue to loose every game this year. No hope. Round 1 tells you how your pre season was. I’m predicting a wooden spoon year. Foran on 900k doing what????
 
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