News Bulldogs great Graeme Hughes says that 2019 will make or break Kieran Foran

vegny

Kennel Enthusiast
Joined
May 12, 2017
Messages
1,677
Reaction score
1,218
A pass is considered a success and a result towards the desired direction, obviously it isn't the ultimate success. Anything less than 8 isn't good enough and shows we aren't moving forward. The level of most teams in the NRL isn't exactly high so a minimum 8th place finish isn't unreasonable if we make improvements and sort out some of our issues.

If we finish at least 8th then I'm happy for the club to offer Pay an extension while also admitting I was wrong about him. If he can't get us there then we should definitely look at other options because the Bulldogs shouldn't be a club that is happy with being at this sort of level. Obviously there is room for movement with these expectations based on things like injury.
Considering the coach will have some input in the planning of the following year, like recruitment etc, should they wait till end of season to decide whether to offer pay an extension or not?
I guess the questions will be whats the cut off and the passing mark. I tend to agree with you on the passing mark.
 

SweetFA

Kennel Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 23, 2017
Messages
1,149
Reaction score
1,060
Really!
So Hopoate is the worst fullback in the NRL? Personally I'd rate him above Dufty, Thompson, Wighton, Gordon, Edwards, Coote, Mbye and Gutherson. Which makes him around mid pack, far from underwhelming.
So Smith is the worst winger in the NRL? Seriously?
Lewis the worst 5/8?
Sure Foran has an injury question hanging over him, but are you seriously suggesting he is the worst half in he NRL?
Holland the worst centre? I'm pretty sure if looked I'd find at least 8 undeniably worse than him.

Not suggesting in any way that we are the best, but we are far from the most underwhelming.

Go Dogs
Take your blue & white specs off- I never suggested Hopoate was the worst FB in the NRL but he’s certainly not in the top6!
Smith for the most part was really ordinary in ISP the past 2 seasons & only really played well when called into NRL & has only played a dozen odd NRL games so far had been great. Lewis again is green having only played 10odd games at NRL level, I called for him to be in the halves from the start of his season. Foran has been training well & looks physically strong-even taking the ball to the line & breaking it regularly during scrimmage sessions- however he is struggling with lower back & hamstring issues even as recent as Monday!
Please tell me you have your tongue firmly in cheek when you hold Holland in such regard. 1 swallow does not a summer make he’s average in attack & woeful defensively. There are at least 10 centres markedly better. He’s played a couple of GOOD games that’s it.
From training sessions I’ve seen, the likely 1-7 will be
Hopoate /Meaney
Smith
Holland /Hopoate
Crichton
Okinbor(if he keeps improving) //Montoya
Lewis
Foran.

Collectively this is an underwhelming formation. It’s admiral that your emotionally engaged to defend our club but at some stage you need to be able to put that aside & analyse with rationale & logic
 

speedy2460

Kennel Addict
Joined
Jun 23, 2008
Messages
5,201
Reaction score
4,606
I feel confident in the way things are going.
I still believe the biggest problem we have, and have had for a while, is the distinct lack of leadership on the field.
Jacko is a great player. He leads by example. But that only gets you so far. He needs to direct the others, and play a part in whats going on.
I think a fit and firing Foran will help fill that void.
 

dogwhisperer

Kennel Addict
Joined
Sep 5, 2016
Messages
7,305
Reaction score
14,150
I feel confident in the way things are going.
I still believe the biggest problem we have, and have had for a while, is the distinct lack of leadership on the field.
Jacko is a great player. He leads by example. But that only gets you so far. He needs to direct the others, and play a part in whats going on.
I think a fit and firing Foran will help fill that void.
"A fit and firing Foran"....ummm....I hope for our sake this is what we see in 2019. I'm not holding my breath.
If he players 80% of the games next season, I'll be doing backflips!
 

CrittaMagic69

Kennel Immortal
Premium Member
Gilded
SC H2H Champion
2 x SC Draft Champ
Joined
Nov 15, 2013
Messages
72,827
Reaction score
78,389
lol "make or break".

Foran is already broken and has been broken for quite a number of years now. This year won't prove any different.

He's a drain on our salary cap and needs to be disposed of immediately.
I don't even include Foran in my calculations. Bloke won't stay on the field and if he some how does manage to then he will just be a passenger like he was at the warriors. We will get a few good moments to start the season from him but that's about it imo.
 

TwinTurbo

Kennel Legend
Gilded
Joined
Oct 22, 2018
Messages
9,422
Reaction score
15,611
Take your blue & white specs off- I never suggested Hopoate was the worst FB in the NRL but he’s certainly not in the top6!
Smith for the most part was really ordinary in ISP the past 2 seasons & only really played well when called into NRL & has only played a dozen odd NRL games so far had been great. Lewis again is green having only played 10odd games at NRL level, I called for him to be in the halves from the start of his season. Foran has been training well & looks physically strong-even taking the ball to the line & breaking it regularly during scrimmage sessions- however he is struggling with lower back & hamstring issues even as recent as Monday!
Please tell me you have your tongue firmly in cheek when you hold Holland in such regard. 1 swallow does not a summer make he’s average in attack & woeful defensively. There are at least 10 centres markedly better. He’s played a couple of GOOD games that’s it.
From training sessions I’ve seen, the likely 1-7 will be
Hopoate /Meaney
Smith
Holland /Hopoate
Crichton
Okinbor(if he keeps improving) //Montoya
Lewis
Foran.
Collectively this is an underwhelming formation. It’s admiral that your emotionally engaged to defend our club but at some stage you need to be able to put that aside & analyse with rationale & logic
If you had said underwhelming then you might just be able to defend it, but you said

Right now, our backline from 1-7 is the most underwhelming in the NRL!
My view is that there are far more underwhelming backlines in the NRL. I listed the fullbacks that I consider Hopoate to be less underwhelming than. In regards to Holland, I believe that Copley, Suli, Chee-Kam, Gray, Wardle, Fuimaono, Whare, Lee and Aitken are far worse defenders than him. Centre is commonly regarded as the most difficult position in defence, and it's easy to be sucked in to blaming the centre for defensive lapses that happen inside and outside of them. In attack, would you really argue that Wright, Denniss, Doueihi, Oldfield, Auva'a, Linnet, Beale and Parker are more effective at centre than Holland?

I could do this position by position across the backline, naming players that I think are more underwhelming than ours, but in the end it's just my opinion, nothing more. In summary, I think our backline is about mid pack in the NRL,

Go Dogs
 

CrittaMagic69

Kennel Immortal
Premium Member
Gilded
SC H2H Champion
2 x SC Draft Champ
Joined
Nov 15, 2013
Messages
72,827
Reaction score
78,389
Considering the coach will have some input in the planning of the following year, like recruitment etc, should they wait till end of season to decide whether to offer pay an extension or not?
I guess the questions will be whats the cut off and the passing mark. I tend to agree with you on the passing mark.
I honestly don't think a coach needs that much input when it comes to our squad imo, a good player will pretty much work in most squads in today's game. Hopefully we have a committee in place that will oversee our squad management while also being in touch with our junior sides and recruitment so we're in a position where we always have quality in the roster or about to break through the into it.

If we do this then whoever is coaching will always have a strong base to work off and not have to go and recruit a stack of players as soon as they come in and overhaul the roster like we have done now. This committee will be focused on our short-term and long-term success while a coach will always be focused on his short-term success and earning himself another contract.
 

Mr Invisible

Banned
Joined
Apr 26, 2008
Messages
0
Reaction score
47
Someone explain how our squad is better than last year?
1. Morris brothers cost us a few games by themselves.
2. Moses Mbye and Woods were distractions to the playing group.
3. Montoya was a defensive nightmare.
4. Holland started firing towards the end of last season along with Lewis and Martin.
5. Martin only debuted late in the season and was brilliant including with the crucial conversions.
6. 7 games this season were lost by 6 points or less.
7. Lewis only played a handful of games last season.
8. Reimis Smith only debuted late in the season as well.
9. Klemmer won't be giving away penalties every 2 minutes and disrupting team dynamic.

How Foran and Meaney go (or more how he's introduced), the impact Sue/Napa/CHN and a fully fit RFM bring to the table. There's lots to be positive and excited about next season.

I believe we've got Desball well and truly out of the system and will see a radically different, more expansive, and more open style of play from the Dogs in 2019, more inline with the entertainers of old.
 

SweetFA

Kennel Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 23, 2017
Messages
1,149
Reaction score
1,060
If you had said underwhelming then you might just be able to defend it, but you said



My view is that there are far more underwhelming backlines in the NRL. I listed the fullbacks that I consider Hopoate to be less underwhelming than. In regards to Holland, I believe that Copley, Suli, Chee-Kam, Gray, Wardle, Fuimaono, Whare, Lee and Aitken are far worse defenders than him. Centre is commonly regarded as the most difficult position in defence, and it's easy to be sucked in to blaming the centre for defensive lapses that happen inside and outside of them. In attack, would you really argue that Wright, Denniss, Doueihi, Oldfield, Auva'a, Linnet, Beale and Parker are more effective at centre than Holland?

I could do this position by position across the backline, naming players that I think are more underwhelming than ours, but in the end it's just my opinion, nothing more. In summary, I think our backline is about mid pack in the NRL,

Go Dogs
Your problem is you fail to see the forest for the trees, like it or not sides like the Rabbitohs, Roosters, Broncos,Cowboys & Panthers & even the Storm & Dragons just to name a few will have a field day with running at our edges with Foran, Holland Smith & Lewis,Crichton Okunbur/Montoya. Doesn’t exactly instil confidence. Again, it’s a team sport as individual players they are not impressive let alone defending as an edge requires combinations-right now is a big unknown. I’m hoping the coaching staff can perform miracles but I’m a realist
 

Howard Moon

Kennel Addict
2 x Gilded
Premium Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2018
Messages
6,568
Reaction score
3,445
Your problem is you fail to see the forest for the trees, like it or not sides like the Rabbitohs, Roosters, Broncos,Cowboys & Panthers & even the Storm & Dragons just to name a few will have a field day with running at our edges with Foran, Holland Smith & Lewis,Crichton Okunbur/Montoya. Doesn’t exactly instil confidence. Again, it’s a team sport as individual players they are not impressive let alone defending as an edge requires combinations-right now is a big unknown. I’m hoping the coaching staff can perform miracles but I’m a realist

we beat all of those teams last year bar the Storm Rabbits and Rooters... we'll be right... Other than those three, I think we're a pretty even match with most of the other teams.
 

GDR

Kennel Addict
2 x Gilded
Premium Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2013
Messages
6,758
Reaction score
10,247
1. Morris brothers cost us a few games by themselves.
2. Moses Mbye and Woods were distractions to the playing group.
3. Montoya was a defensive nightmare.
4. Holland started firing towards the end of last season along with Lewis and Martin.
5. Martin only debuted late in the season and was brilliant including with the crucial conversions.
6. 7 games this season were lost by 6 points or less.
7. Lewis only played a handful of games last season.
8. Reimis Smith only debuted late in the season as well.
9. Klemmer won't be giving away penalties every 2 minutes and disrupting team dynamic.

How Foran and Meaney go (or more how he's introduced), the impact Sue/Napa/CHN and a fully fit RFM bring to the table. There's lots to be positive and excited about next season.

I believe we've got Desball well and truly out of the system and will see a radically different, more expansive, and more open style of play from the Dogs in 2019, more inline with the entertainers of old.
I agree with a lot of what you have written .. hence why I I'm quietly confident ..
but if you base judgement on paper alone , it doesn't sound that great .. and that's why we are ranked to finish 15th..
we have a lot of variables in our team that can go either way
 

dogwhisperer

Kennel Addict
Joined
Sep 5, 2016
Messages
7,305
Reaction score
14,150
1. Morris brothers cost us a few games by themselves.
2. Moses Mbye and Woods were distractions to the playing group.
3. Montoya was a defensive nightmare.
4. Holland started firing towards the end of last season along with Lewis and Martin.
5. Martin only debuted late in the season and was brilliant including with the crucial conversions.
6. 7 games this season were lost by 6 points or less.
7. Lewis only played a handful of games last season.
8. Reimis Smith only debuted late in the season as well.
9. Klemmer won't be giving away penalties every 2 minutes and disrupting team dynamic.

How Foran and Meaney go (or more how he's introduced), the impact Sue/Napa/CHN and a fully fit RFM bring to the table. There's lots to be positive and excited about next season.

I believe we've got Desball well and truly out of the system and will see a radically different, more expansive, and more open style of play from the Dogs in 2019, more inline with the entertainers of old.
All depends if this new style of ours is going to be a flash in the pan like the beginning of 2008(Folkes was talking up playing expansive and exciting footy) where in round 1 we put 20-0 on parra in the first half, then in the second half we got run down.
We led the comp after 3 rounds and ended up finishing last. Not saying this year will be the same but lets hope this new playing style and training methods will be more than just a flash in the pan situation.

I believe we will go better next year....my only concern is the departure of the Morris twins. While you pointed out them costing us games this year, I believe they won us more than they cost us. The experiance they brought to the table was invaluable.
 

dogwhisperer

Kennel Addict
Joined
Sep 5, 2016
Messages
7,305
Reaction score
14,150
I agree with a lot of what you have written .. hence why I I'm quietly confident ..
but if you base judgement on paper alone , it doesn't sound that great .. and that's why we are ranked to finish 15th..
we have a lot of variables in our team that can go either way
That's very true....it could go either way. In fact I won't be surprised one way or another.
 

dogwhisperer

Kennel Addict
Joined
Sep 5, 2016
Messages
7,305
Reaction score
14,150
I honestly don't think a coach needs that much input when it comes to our squad imo, a good player will pretty much work in most squads in today's game. Hopefully we have a committee in place that will oversee our squad management while also being in touch with our junior sides and recruitment so we're in a position where we always have quality in the roster or about to break through the into it.

If we do this then whoever is coaching will always have a strong base to work off and not have to go and recruit a stack of players as soon as they come in and overhaul the roster like we have done now. This committee will be focused on our short-term and long-term success while a coach will always be focused on his short-term success and earning himself another contract.
Dean Pay is part of the football club's retention and recruitment committee along with C Anderson, Andrew Hill, Warran Mcdonnell, Mark Hughes and one more I forgot his name.
 

Qld-Dog

Kennel Addict
Joined
Jul 3, 2011
Messages
5,633
Reaction score
750
1. Morris brothers cost us a few games by themselves.
2. Moses Mbye and Woods were distractions to the playing group.
3. Montoya was a defensive nightmare.
4. Holland started firing towards the end of last season along with Lewis and Martin.
5. Martin only debuted late in the season and was brilliant including with the crucial conversions.
6. 7 games this season were lost by 6 points or less.
7. Lewis only played a handful of games last season.
8. Reimis Smith only debuted late in the season as well.
9. Klemmer won't be giving away penalties every 2 minutes and disrupting team dynamic.

How Foran and Meaney go (or more how he's introduced), the impact Sue/Napa/CHN and a fully fit RFM bring to the table. There's lots to be positive and excited about next season.

I believe we've got Desball well and truly out of the system and will see a radically different, more expansive, and more open style of play from the Dogs in 2019, more inline with the entertainers of old.
I disagree with you in part of item 2, I believe the Canterbury Bankstown Bulldogs were a distraction to Woodsy's future, how did one expect him to perform in his first season with the Dogs knowing that your future was up in the air because of the bullshit spending and back ended deals that had happened + knowing you were being shopped around.
I felt embarrassed being a supporter of our club and felt sorry for Woodsy.
 

CrittaMagic69

Kennel Immortal
Premium Member
Gilded
SC H2H Champion
2 x SC Draft Champ
Joined
Nov 15, 2013
Messages
72,827
Reaction score
78,389
Dean Pay is part of the football club's retention and recruitment committee along with C Anderson, Andrew Hill, Warran Mcdonnell, Mark Hughes and one more I forgot his name.
Well obviously the coach is part of it lol. My point is more that he doesn't have complete control and that others with longer futures at the club are having a major influence.
 

Straight18

Kennel Enthusiast
Joined
May 5, 2018
Messages
2,042
Reaction score
1,152
Well obviously the coach is part of it lol. My point is more that he doesn't have complete control and that others with longer futures at the club are having a major influence.
Ive always been a pay fan and backed him unlike u marley. But im happy with what your saying. I think deano can get 8th with this squad any less i think we have to keep an eye on a better option. I think they can do it with your men steve there too. Pending injuries. Skinny in backs pending the talent of this 30th man
 

Straight18

Kennel Enthusiast
Joined
May 5, 2018
Messages
2,042
Reaction score
1,152
And when we free up foran money look out the rest of the comp the dogs are coming
 
Top