Replace the cap with a transfer fee system

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Oatley Dog

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I have said many times there HAS to be a better way than using players salaries to equalize team strengths. I have put forward my idea of a points system on this forum, and also sent it to the NRL. The NRL didn't even have the decency to reply and say thanks for your suggestion. They obviously don't like fan feedback and their heads are so far in the sand that the salary cap is their GOD. Think of the teams who have been caught over the years, did the integrity unit catch them? Nope. Most were either as the result of whistleblowers or self reporting. The NRL Integrity unit are pretty much useless. A draft goes hand in hand with a cap in most sports. AFL might not be as good a sport as NRL but AFL administration leaves the NRL administration for dead.
How so? They are riddled with drug abusers, inept chairpeople and a two tiered competition. They prop up half the sides and those who have been on the inside as players (as opposed to those who just watch) tell me the game is in all sorts. The only thing they have that we could use is the draft and we started that before they did. It was only our boofhead players that challenged it and destroyed it while theirs let it slide.
 

Oatley Dog

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The NRL would have to be one of the most corrupt sporting bodies in world sport. Certainly by far & away the most corrupt sporting organization in Australia. It's totally ineffective & abused salary cap & TPAs are just a pathetic joke.
How do you arrive at them being corrupt? Because you don't like the salary cap? Ever heard of FIFA? FFA? IOC? Let's face it pretty much everyone on here accuses them of being corrupt simply because they don't understand how the cap works and assume that if our club is in trouble then if every other club isn't then it must be because the system did it. We did it to ourselves. Every single person involved with the cap at every single club all say the same thing and that is that the cap is incredibly complex and difficult to manage. It doesn't take much to get it out of balance, like we did. That doesn't make the governing body corrupt. It makes our administration incompetent.
 

Wahesh

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I think this would be better because it would allow people to pay big money for a transfer of a player even when hes on contract and if the clubs agree they could release the player easily if they are satisfied with the fee. And this would help some of the smaller clubs financially, because they could receive good money and use it on other players they need. Once the player is released then the other club takes on that players contract or renegotiate a different one, theres no need for a salary cap
The salary cap is needed, however having a transfer system in place could work. Not the OTT ridiculous shit that they use in European soccer, but maybe something like 25% of the players wage is paid to the club he's being transferred from - that way, the club releasing him knows exactly how much he is being paid.

Fair dinkum.
 

Trafford10

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How do you arrive at them being corrupt? Because you don't like the salary cap? Ever heard of FIFA? FFA? IOC? Let's face it pretty much everyone on here accuses them of being corrupt simply because they don't understand how the cap works and assume that if our club is in trouble then if every other club isn't then it must be because the system did it. We did it to ourselves. Every single person involved with the cap at every single club all say the same thing and that is that the cap is incredibly complex and difficult to manage. It doesn't take much to get it out of balance, like we did. That doesn't make the governing body corrupt. It makes our administration incompetent.
Not sure why you would list FFA?
FIFA & IOC have cleaned up their act and lets not discount that FIFA & IOC are vastly more complex organizations that have basicly every nation on earth as members with many of those Nations where corruption is part of the tapestry of their society.
Yes the NRL is corrupt a lose "salary cap" without a draft just doesn't work.
When I say lose I mean hidden behind smoke & mirrors including the ridiculous TPAs.
How many times has the NRL "salary cap audit team" ever picked up anything? Fucking never is the answer it takes a whistle blower or police tip off or some other "leak" for them to find amything. Their so called "audit" team sit around drinking coffee looking out the window watching the wind blow through the trees all day, that's when their not on facebook or looking up porn.
Then we have the match officals, a bigger bunch of more incompetent referees you could not find, are they ever held accountable..No, do they corruptly determine the outcome of matches...you betta believe they do.
And finally we have the NRL sucking at the teat of sports betting agencies.
Oh and to your other post about billionaire owners and celebrity owners. Who opened the door to private ownership of Rugby League teams and calling them "franchises" rather than the traditional member owned clubs that the game was built on....thats right the NRL.
The NRL is rotten to the core.
 
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Oatley Dog

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Not sure why you would list FFA?
FIFA & IOC have cleaned up their act and lets not discount that FIFA & IOC are vastly more complex organizations that have basicly every nation on earth as members with many of those Nations where corruption is part of the tapestry of their society.
Yes the NRL is corrupt a lose "salary cap" without a draft just doesn't work.
When I say lose I mean hidden behind smoke & mirrors including the ridiculous TPAs.
How many times has the NRL "salary cap audit team" ever picked up anything? Fucking never is the answer it takes a whistle blower or police tip off or some other "leak" for them to find amything. Their so called "audit" team sit around drinking coffee looking out the window watching the wind blow through the trees all day, that's when their not on facebook or looking up porn.
Then we have the match officals, a bigger bunch of more incompetent referees you could not find, are they ever held accountable..No, do they corruptly determine the outcome of matches...you betta believe they do.
And finally we have the NRL sucking at the teat of sports betting agencies.
Oh and to your other post about billionaire owners and celebrity owners. Who opened the door to private ownership of Rugby League teams and calling them "franchises" rather than the traditional member owned clubs that the game was built on....thats right the NRL.
The NRL is rotten to the core.
That's just an emotional rant. Nothing wrong with that but just recognise it for what it is. I think you mean "loose" not 'lose'. So the fact that FIFA had to press gang the FFA into changing its governance structures doesn't mean anything at all? OK. The IOC and FIFA have done absolutely nothing more than window dressing in terms of fixing corruption. They still rely on small poor countries for votes bought for by rich and powerful ones - the very definition of corruption.

The machinations of the Cap are indeed complex - every club has said so, but that doesn't make it corrupt. Just because fans can't understand something doesn't make it corrupt - just makes it hard.

As for how many times does an audit pick something up well I think you will find every season there are at least 4 or 5 clubs fined for cap breaches so they must be doing something. Like all audit bodies if they had unlimited resources they could audit continuously but having an audit budget bigger than your income stream is not good business sense so it becomes risk management.

The NRL isn't 'sucking on the teats of betting agencies' it is demanding that they pay a reasonable proportion of their income generated from an activity that the NRL organises and accepts all of the operational risk for. Hardly corrupt. In fact it is outstanding business acumen (oh and a little bit of legislation).

Private ownership isn't a bad thing if you want enough teams to run a national competition. In fact it all goes back to the capacity of the game to attract funds. Pissant leagues clubs and chook raffles can't cut it. That's why they sold out to the Crowes, Tinklers, Frizelles etc. It was the only way at the time we could maintain a 16 team comp. Without a cap most of those clubs would've gone under by now and you would be sitting on the hill at belmore watching an A grade comp.

There has never been a time in history where referees are respected. Not Page, not Hartley, not Harrigan and now not Sutton. We've gone from no cameras to one camera on halfway to 4 cameras to now 16 of them. You think that level of scrutiny isn't going to turn up mistakes. Of course it is. It is easy to sit back and label them as corrupt but the truth is that the decision making challenges for refs is getting harder every year and some are less able to adapt than others. One thing I know for sure if we punt them we don't have a game. But don't think it is limited to our game. I had an in depth conversation with a retired AFL player and coach the other day and he was blowing up deluxe about how ridiculous the umpiring is in their code and they have 4 of them on the field. How about cricket umpires...... you get the point. We all hate officials. Doesn't make them corrupt.

I for one think the NRL are going OK. Not perfect but OK. They have started doing things that will grow the game. We have an international series this week. We've never had that before. We are taking the game around the world to open up opportunities. Haven't done that before. We've moved origin. Don't get me wrong there are still a million things to be done but you can't turn the titanic on a dime. These things take time.
 

Mr Invisible

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TPAs are "meant" to be armslength... however because the ruling party is the NRL and certain teams and key figures on boards are integral to the survival of the NRL (and prevention of opposing leagues), I feel that things get seriously overlooked.

I'd love to see the number of TPAs (not values just numbers of actual TPAs) per club. I think there would be specific clubs who appear to be able to sign all and sundry that are way above others in terms of TPAs, and that those TPAs would come directly from members of the board, despite supposed arms length agreements.
 

M4cca

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Does the salary cap really need massive changes? for the most part it does its job in that no teams really remain dominant for an extended period of time. Most teams have their successful years then fall away due to the cap forcing players out. If we had capitalised between 2012 and 2015 it would have taken some sting off our current situation
 

Trafford10

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That's just an emotional rant. Nothing wrong with that but just recognise it for what it is. I think you mean "loose" not 'lose'. So the fact that FIFA had to press gang the FFA into changing its governance structures doesn't mean anything at all? OK. The IOC and FIFA have done absolutely nothing more than window dressing in terms of fixing corruption. They still rely on small poor countries for votes bought for by rich and powerful ones - the very definition of corruption.

The machinations of the Cap are indeed complex - every club has said so, but that doesn't make it corrupt. Just because fans can't understand something doesn't make it corrupt - just makes it hard.

As for how many times does an audit pick something up well I think you will find every season there are at least 4 or 5 clubs fined for cap breaches so they must be doing something. Like all audit bodies if they had unlimited resources they could audit continuously but having an audit budget bigger than your income stream is not good business sense so it becomes risk management.

The NRL isn't 'sucking on the teats of betting agencies' it is demanding that they pay a reasonable proportion of their income generated from an activity that the NRL organises and accepts all of the operational risk for. Hardly corrupt. In fact it is outstanding business acumen (oh and a little bit of legislation).

Private ownership isn't a bad thing if you want enough teams to run a national competition. In fact it all goes back to the capacity of the game to attract funds. Pissant leagues clubs and chook raffles can't cut it. That's why they sold out to the Crowes, Tinklers, Frizelles etc. It was the only way at the time we could maintain a 16 team comp. Without a cap most of those clubs would've gone under by now and you would be sitting on the hill at belmore watching an A grade comp.

There has never been a time in history where referees are respected. Not Page, not Hartley, not Harrigan and now not Sutton. We've gone from no cameras to one camera on halfway to 4 cameras to now 16 of them. You think that level of scrutiny isn't going to turn up mistakes. Of course it is. It is easy to sit back and label them as corrupt but the truth is that the decision making challenges for refs is getting harder every year and some are less able to adapt than others. One thing I know for sure if we punt them we don't have a game. But don't think it is limited to our game. I had an in depth conversation with a retired AFL player and coach the other day and he was blowing up deluxe about how ridiculous the umpiring is in their code and they have 4 of them on the field. How about cricket umpires...... you get the point. We all hate officials. Doesn't make them corrupt.

I for one think the NRL are going OK. Not perfect but OK. They have started doing things that will grow the game. We have an international series this week. We've never had that before. We are taking the game around the world to open up opportunities. Haven't done that before. We've moved origin. Don't get me wrong there are still a million things to be done but you can't turn the titanic on a dime. These things take time.
Yes loose...correct.

I wasn't that emotional.

Once I was a police officer, then I was a practicing solicitor for a while but too hard to generate & collect fees, now I work for a sheltered workshop (i.e. Bank) doing AML.

I know a corrupt organization when I see one. I'm on the 8.12 train so will read your detailed comment when home.
 

Oatley Dog

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Yes loose...correct.

I wasn't that emotional.

Once I was a police officer, then I was a practicing solicitor for a while but too hard to generate & collect fees, now I work for a sheltered workshop (i.e. Bank) doing AML.

I know a corrupt organization when I see one. I'm on the 8.12 train so will read your detailed comment when home.
I managed a led corruption inquiries over the best part of 20 years along with my normal job so I'm not unfamiliar with them myself. There is nothing in what the NRL does that even remotely looks like corruption without the benefit of seeing the books.
 

dogluva

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No one outside of the NRL would be privy to the salary cap situation regarding players wages etc. but it also raises a question that Talkin Sport mentioned the other day.

If the NRL knows what players are being paid each year and have contracts registered and signed for those amounts how come they were not transparent enough to say to our club that you are going to find yourselves in a massive amount of trouble when all your back ended deals and ratchet clauses are activated ( or of they did it was a case of not for public knowledge. )Why do they even allow them to do so, if not for the fact that it may be a restraint of trade. Just how many third party deals of any real value exist that allow clubs to have a fair bit of wriggle room under the cap?

The NRL know full well in advance what amounts are being offered etc. and not once did we hear anything about it except 'we will not register the contracts of Woods and Foran until you are compliant'. We assumed that that was rectified when we released Graham Kasiano and co. the Talkin Sport team has offered Mr Greenberg the chance to come on and discuss it but he has, as you would expect, so far declined.

It is pretty much certain that most, if not all clubs have some back ended deals and thanks to player managers ratchet clauses in line with cap increases.
 

Wahesh

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The salary cap is needed, however having a transfer system in place could work. Not the OTT ridiculous shit that they use in European soccer, but maybe something like 25% of the players wage is paid to the club he's being transferred from - that way, the club releasing him knows exactly how much he is being paid.

Fair dinkum.
...and when I say 25% of the players wage, I mean 25% of his VALUE is paid as the transfer fee. Prime example: the Roosters buy Cooper Cronk $780,000,000, so the Storm get the transfer fee of $78,000,000. So altogether, the Roosters pay $858,000,000 for Cronk.
 

CMP

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If we do that the Rorters will win every year. They'll be the Man Utd of the NRL.
On the contrary!

They play without a Cap already.
Their TPA’s would match the Cap

Other clubs could match them and bring them closer.

Admittedly most clubs would fold and we would end up with an 8 team competition.
 

Wahesh

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On the contrary!

They play without a Cap already.
Their TPA’s would match the Cap

Other clubs could match them and bring them closer.

Admittedly most clubs would fold and we would end up with an 8 team competition.
Or get bought out by mining magnates in W.A.

Shit, then there really WOULD be a Perth team.
 
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