The full extent and repercussions of Canterbury’s salary cap hell

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Chippytaka

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If this was all true the NRL wouldn’t have ratified Coggers signing. It’s bullshit based on the fact they think we will retain Eastwood and the Morris’s. I can easily see Mbye, Tolman and Klemmer being back ended but Woods and Foran wouldn’t have been signed off after the Manly saga. It’s bullshit. Let’s move on
 

c-b-b

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At the time fat Ray thought he had the numbers and power to increase the cap
Dib thought he could do what Politis does - offload good players for better players which is what the roosters do when someone better comes along.

The issue is we're trying to offload shit players who no-one wants.
 

Kempsey Dog

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The club will be better for going through this shit. We will find out who wants to fight and have a go for our club, wether it be a rookie or a current unproven squad player. The likes of Holland, Carr, Lewis, Brown, To'Omaga (to name a few) whilst not NRL elite could certainly aim up and make us proud. We will lose many a game throughout the next couple of seasons... but I'm remaining optimistic that this process will stack us with a group of eager young lads looking for a shot like we had in the early 2000s.
 
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Novdoggie

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We have to work with what we got. It will come down to how our coaching staff can evolve our squad.

Des had our squad playing such an unorthodox style he trained the talent out of individuals. He turned talented players into robots. Playing his style from a scripted piece of paper and continual video sessions where playing footy became an education of a strict style instead of allowing the individual skills of each player to shine.

We are now paying the price of the squad struggling to adapt and change structures they have been dictated to play for the past six years.

We have to back Pay in years to come and allow him to build his team. Right now we need stability in our coach and staff so we can do likewise with the players and build a formidable team we can be proud of.
 
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Riggs80

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Seems to be that the club banked on higher cap which was why dib was trying to make a fuss with the NRL , and the big back ended deals we hear are not the only ones . For the cap to be screwed I'm assumuning basically everyone is on backended deals.

I'll actually support des on this , he may have wanted a few on backended contracts by wtf were dib and castle doing . It is their job to get the numbers right , and it's a big shambolic mess.

I think it's also grubby to pay unders to players one year and overs the following and put media pressure on the players by leaking their overs payments and tying to make them leave .

I know I would b filthy if I was in that position, as for his performances he may not have been a useless plodder if at the time he signed for the club he signed elesewhere with better coach and better roster alongside him
 

liljohny

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On top of that $2400k you mentioned mate,there's Graham's money ($500k) + Salary cap increases of at least $200k minimum,probably more,the 11 other players which have to be on minimum wage of $100k at best,probably some are on bigger money.So even if we use the least possible money of:
$2400k + $500k + $200k + $1100k =4200k.

So they are trying to tell us,$4200k will not cover all backended contracts + 14 new players,some of which will bw on minimum wage.I don't believe these dudes will know if you're up them,fair dinkum.
There is no way they would have access to players contracts,third party agreements would probably prohibit that from happening.Just in case they are in agreement with other players from other clubs.It could put them in an embarrassing position and can cause conflict of interests especially if some consideration is required by the player.It could also cause problems if the money involved favor one player more then the other.

Do they know which contracts have third party agreements and which contract's back ended deals are impacted by third party agreements?
Do they know if any contracts have any bonus clauses?
Do they know who gets other Benefits like Tertiary education fees, approved traineeships, medical insurance costs, relocation/temporary accommodation costs that are not included in the cap but can be taken as salary sacrifice if approved by NRL?
Do they know who has vehicle allowances (five motor vehicles valued at $20,000 each,outside the salary cap) but can be taken as salary sacrifice.?
Which players are effected by Veteran and Developed Player Allowance which is $200k?
Details of the $300k paid by the NRL to the RLPA towards players' Retirement Account Contribution,which is on top of the $9.1m cap?
Details of $100k paid by the NRL to the RLPA towards their administration funding,which is on top of the $9.1m cap?

I doubt it brother.NRL contracts are not a few scribbles with 1 number,I know of a law firm that makes a living putting these contracts together.
Yes. Its exactly this. I just didn't have the time to detail it! Your spot on. Its like they are shining the spotlight on the Bulldogs whilst in the cover of the night Roosters, Storm, south's and Brisbane are wreaking salary cap havock of greater proportion.
 

bells76

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If this was all true the NRL wouldn’t have ratified Coggers signing. It’s bullshit based on the fact they think we will retain Eastwood and the Morris’s. I can easily see Mbye, Tolman and Klemmer being back ended but Woods and Foran wouldn’t have been signed off after the Manly saga. It’s bullshit. Let’s move on
Why would the not ratify it? Next year we have 800k to spend we just have to sign nobodies, if you think it’s bullshit go talk to some player managers
 

Oatley Dog

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My understanding is that it's more in depth than that, because the NRL got sick of clubs breaching the cap. That's why they will not approve a signature until a club proves they are complaint. That's why in the past clubs have had to move on players before they can sign a player who isn't even due at the club till the following season.

EXAMPLE:
NRL Salary Cap 2019: $10 million
NRL Salary Cap 2020: $10.1 million
NRL Salary Cap 2021: $10.2 million
NRL Salary Cap 2022: $10.5 million

Dogs: "Hey we'd like to sign Jim Smith on a $2 million contract over 4 years."
NRL: "Okay and how is that broken up"
Dogs: "Year 1 400, Year 2 400, Year 3 400, Year 4 800"
NRL: "No worries that's approved *punches into their system"

Dogs already have $9.5 million signed for all years.
2019: $9.9 million
2020: $9.9 million
2021: $9.9 million
2022: $10.3 million

Dogs: "Hey we'd like to sign John Doe on a $600,000 contract over 4 years."
NRL: "Okay and how is that broken up"
Dogs: "Year 1 100, Year 2 100, Year 3 100, Year 4 300"
NRL: "Sorry we can't register that, you are compliant in 2019, 2020, 2021, but not 2022"
All of which is true but don't forget Woods and Foran were signed during the transitionary period between caps and with Dib arguing that the cap would be $10m+ the NRL by not having a cap in place for 2018+ meant they couldn't argue at the margins. That's why Graham was pushed. That only happened after the cap was formally announced and we were shot. Same thing applies to next year as well. The early indicative cap of $11m gave the Board the capacity to sign off on escalating contracts for the top 7 or 8 players and now it is more than $1m less for next year we have no room to move. The finding of 14 players with only $800k to spend is a furphy but the fact remains we will have to offload players this year and will only recruit kids to replace them. The good news is that all of our existing good young kids coming through are secured for the next couple of years or so.
 

Mr Invisible

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All of which is true but don't forget Woods and Foran were signed during the transitionary period between caps and with Dib arguing that the cap would be $10m+ the NRL by not having a cap in place for 2018+ meant they couldn't argue at the margins. That's why Graham was pushed. That only happened after the cap was formally announced and we were shot. Same thing applies to next year as well. The early indicative cap of $11m gave the Board the capacity to sign off on escalating contracts for the top 7 or 8 players and now it is more than $1m less for next year we have no room to move. The finding of 14 players with only $800k to spend is a furphy but the fact remains we will have to offload players this year and will only recruit kids to replace them. The good news is that all of our existing good young kids coming through are secured for the next couple of years or so.
So it's a glass half full scenario. Keep the current side but not recruit anyone, or release players to have room to recruit?

Was this a Dave Smith or a John Grant fuckup? I recall one shootintg their mouth off before the cap was decided and all the clubs in NRL based it on that.

If anything NOBODY should face cap scrutiny based on that fuckup. Clubs couldn't be expected to sit around on their hands whilst players came up for offer.

If anything it should be a "whoops we fucked up" soft cap is (as initially indicated), but will stay that way for 20xx period.

To punish a side based on the fuckups of previous administration, is a cop out.
 

dogsballs

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All of which is true but don't forget Woods and Foran were signed during the transitionary period between caps and with Dib arguing that the cap would be $10m+ the NRL by not having a cap in place for 2018+ meant they couldn't argue at the margins. That's why Graham was pushed. That only happened after the cap was formally announced and we were shot. Same thing applies to next year as well. The early indicative cap of $11m gave the Board the capacity to sign off on escalating contracts for the top 7 or 8 players and now it is more than $1m less for next year we have no room to move. The finding of 14 players with only $800k to spend is a furphy but the fact remains we will have to offload players this year and will only recruit kids to replace them. The good news is that all of our existing good young kids coming through are secured for the next couple of years or so.
When you say we will have to offload players though is that not counting Eastwood and the morris bros though? I don’t think anyone really expected to res-sign those guys anyway. Will we still be in trouble even with those guys gone and just replaced with minimum wage guys?
 

Oatley Dog

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When you say we will have to offload players though is that not counting Eastwood and the morris bros though? I don’t think anyone really expected to res-sign those guys anyway. Will we still be in trouble even with those guys gone and just replaced with minimum wage guys?
Wouldn't put my house on it but I think the loss of Mozzes and Eastwood is what is being talked about. Replace them with Cogger and 2 other young blokes either from within or elsewhere. Bottom line is there is no recruitment action being undertaken to secure established players for this year or next. 2020 is the next window for an existing good player to come on board. So I would assume at the end of this season or early next will be the first time an announcement on a good player can be made.
 

Oatley Dog

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It was one of them (Grant
So it's a glass half full scenario. Keep the current side but not recruit anyone, or release players to have room to recruit?

Was this a Dave Smith or a John Grant fuckup? I recall one shootintg their mouth off before the cap was decided and all the clubs in NRL based it on that.

If anything NOBODY should face cap scrutiny based on that fuckup. Clubs couldn't be expected to sit around on their hands whilst players came up for offer.

If anything it should be a "whoops we fucked up" soft cap is (as initially indicated), but will stay that way for 20xx period.

To punish a side based on the fuckups of previous administration, is a cop out.
It was one of them (Grant I think but not sure). In the modern world a blokes word is never really his word. It is only ever something indicative. There are all sorts of caveats applied to every statement a CEO or Chairperson makes so we just have to accept things the way they are and get on with it. There's no getting away from the fact that Dib gambled on the cap and lost though and that is really why we are in this predicament.
 

dogwhisperer

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Yes. Its exactly this. I just didn't have the time to detail it! Your spot on. Its like they are shining the spotlight on the Bulldogs whilst in the cover of the night Roosters, Storm, south's and Brisbane are wreaking salary cap havock of greater proportion.
Pfffft.... 14 players off contract. What a load of hogwash. As if the club is going to tell the stupid media what the real number of off contract players are
 

Mike_B

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Pfffft.... 14 players off contract. What a load of hogwash. As if the club is going to tell the stupid media what the real number of off contract players are
It’s common knowledge which players from all clubs are coming off contract...

When you say we will have to offload players though is that not counting Eastwood and the morris bros though? I don’t think anyone really expected to res-sign those guys anyway. Will we still be in trouble even with those guys gone and just replaced with minimum wage guys?
Morris boys and Eastwood are gone. Offloading players means players that are contracted but we need to free up cap space to put together a full 30 man squad.

We will lose a few good contracted players mark my word.
 

dogwhisperer

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It’s common knowledge which players from all clubs are coming off contract...



Morris boys and Eastwood are gone. Offloading players means players that are contracted but we need to free up cap space to put together a full 30 man squad.

We will lose a few good contracted players mark my word.
Yes we will maybe 1 or 2 good contracted players. It’s a must, but it’s not that bad in the grand scheme of things. I’d be happy to release Foran, I like him, I think he needs a good halfback next to him for him to excel but he is no where near good enough to be on the money he’s reportedly on. His body is shot. Don’t know how he’s going to last 3 years. The old administration paid way over for some players.

By the way, does anybody have a list of those 14 supposedly off contract at the end of the year?

So let’s start:

1.Bmoz
2.Jmoz
3.Eastwood

Who are the rest?
 

Mike_B

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Yes we will maybe 1 or 2 good contracted players. It’s a must, but it’s not that bad in the grand scheme of things. I’d be happy to release Foran, I like him, I think he needs a good halfback next to him for him to excel but he is no where near good enough to be on the money he’s reportedly on. His body is shot. Don’t know how he’s going to last 3 years. The old administration paid way over for some players.

By the way, does anybody have a list of those 14 supposedly off contract at the end of the year?

So let’s start:

1.Bmoz
2.Jmoz
3.Eastwood

Who are the rest?
IMG_1253.JPG
 

Deathspell

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Why would the not ratify it? Next year we have 800k to spend we just have to sign nobodies, if you think it’s bullshit go talk to some player managers
I know some of the legal firms that are involved in the formation of a lot of NRL's contracts (Agreements) personally.Currently I'm using one of these firm's services to assist with commercial contracts made under common law.That are subject to my client's defense,listed in front of the Supreme Court against the Crime Commission.There is no way a journalist can know or a player's managers can disclose any of the Agreement's details without being in violation under common law.This is the reason why.
The contents below is straight out of an old Agreement that has been fulfilled and is currently not active.These sections included in the Agreements are the reason why.
***For clarity GROUP means National Rugby League.

SECTION 3:
OBLIGATIONS OF THE PLAYER


3.1 General Obligations
The Player agrees to:

(t) the Club and the player or his representatives disclosing to the Group only any financial information relating to him which the Group requests be provided to it.

SECTION 19: CONFIDENTIALITY

19.1 Terms to be Kept Confidential.
The terms of this Agreement are confidential and shall not be disclosed by either party to any person or entity other than the GROUP,its servants or agents,without the prior written consent of the other of them, except for the purpose of:

(a) obtaining legal or financial advice; or
(b) the performance or the enforcement of the performance of the several obligations expressed herein.

SECTION 16: NEGOTIATING WITH OTHER CLUBS

16.1 Negotiations
During the Employment Term,the Player must not enter into any discussions,negotiations,contract,agreement,arrangement,understanding or option to play the Game for any other club without giving written instruction to the club including the details and remuneration.All negotiations should not be subject to the media or ought to be known as a member of the media,or any other party not employed by the club,to protect all parties involved,the GROUP'S and code's integrity and safeguard the code from competitive organizations.

16.2 Deemed Negotiations
For the purposes of Clause 16.1,if the manager, agent or representative of the Player enters into any discussions,negotiations,contract,agreement,arrangement,understanding or option to play the Game for any other club on behalf of the Player,then the Player shall be deemed to have authorized his manager,agent or representative to do so on his behalf.Authorized personnel are not to disclose any details of this contract to the media or ought to be known as a member of the media or to other parties not employed by the club.They must sign confidentiality agreements authorized by all clubs involved,to protect all parties involved,the GROUP'S and code's integrity and safeguard the code from competitive organizations.

***how does the media know the following section wasn't enacted after the new board was elected.

Section 21: Changed Circumstances


21.1 Player's Obligations if Circumstances Change
This Agreement has been entered into by the Club on the basis that the payments specified in it are fully inclusive of all payments except payroll tax that the Club is required to pay to or on behalf of the Player under any legislation,award or other industrial instrument that is in force during the Employment Term.If the Club is required to make any additional payment to or on behalf of the Player as a result of any new or amended legislation,award or other industrial instrument coming into force after the date of this Agreement,the Club shall be entitled to terminate this Agreement if the Player does not,within 21 days of being requested in writing to do so,enter into a new agreement for the balance of the Employment Term upon financial terms that will ensure that the total payments by the Club for each season in respect of the Player does not exceed the amount of the payments stated in this Agreement.

21.2 Clubs obligations if circumstance change
Clubs can amend together with the players consent any basis of the payments outlined in this Agreement.Both parties can enter into a new Agreement for the balance of the employment term where the balance of all previous forward payments and back payments do not amount to the payments stated in this Agreement.The club cannot offset any inclusive past payments made under any legislation,award or other industrial instrument but is required to restart fully inclusive all payments as outlined in this Agreement.

Section 27: Entire Agreement

This Agreement contains all of the terms of the agreement between the Player and the Club.Any information disclosed therein can only be known,shared,inspected and forwarded to the GROUP,unless required for legal or medical circumstances as outlined in sections:

5.2 Termination due to health risk.
6.1 Termination due toIncapacity.
6.2,6.2 (b),6.3,6.4 (ii) Payment on Termination.
8.1,8.2,8.3,8.4,8.5 (c) & (e) Player's Obligations.
9.1,9.1(a) Release of a player.
10 Fines and advances.
11 Disputes.
12 Insurance.
13 Health fund Membership.
14 Suspension of a player.
18.1 Representations and Warranties
21.1 Players Obligations if Circumstances Change.

***These next two sections are important,because it makes the Agreement's governance and disputes subject to common law,instead of an organization's constitutional's laws or code of practice.As clubs and NRL are subject to 'Registered Club Act 1976' for regulations and the 'Corporations Act 2001' for financial operations.Reason Agreements are governed by NSW laws,is because the NRL,that is run by the fully incorporated Australian Rugby League Commission is located in Sydney.

SECTION 26: SEVERABILITY

26.1 Agreement to be Upheld.
Where Possible.If it appears to any court that any restraint imposed or undertaken by this Agreement is invalid, or void, to any extent by,force of any statutory
provision or by reason or partly by reason of being an unreasonable restraint of trade, the parties agree that such restraint shall be valid to such extent, if any, as the court thinks fit and shall otherwise be severable from the other terms of this Agreement with the intent that this Agreement shall be read and construed as operating to the fullest extent in all respects.

SECTION 28: GOVERNING LAW

28.1 Governing Law.
This Agreement shall be governed by the laws of the State of New South Wales and the parties submit to the exclusive jurisdiction of its courts.

So yes the media can speculate so can anyone else on the planet,but to report as if they know the exact details of our salary cap problem is sensationalism.Unless our new board are stupid enough to want to crush our club's moral.Possible,if their agenda is to excuse themselves and point blame at the previous board.Otherwise there is no way the media would know the full extent or contents of the Agreements.
 
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dogwhisperer

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For starters Lachlan Burr and Tom Carr are second tier players and thus are excluded from the 30 man squad in relation to the salary cap for the first grade squad. So that’s 12 to feed off $800k not 14. Now if the club can offload 2 decent contracted players and potentially save $1m, we will have $1.8m to share amongst 12. Most of these players will be fringe first graders, give them $150k each. I don’t think it’s as bad as what the media makes it out to be.
 
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