Train Discussion Megathread - Etiquette / Strikes / Gripes

[JayBee]

Rupert Murdoch owns News Ltd and Sky news, Kerry Packer used to own Channel 9, Kerry Stokes owns channel 7, and the ABC has been severely muzzled by the current LNP government.

These are all right wing ideologues, except the ABC, which has had it's balanced reporting cracked down on.

The front page Newspaper you're talking about is News Ltd, who also had a front page of the Labor Government in Nazi uniforms on it's front pages (back in the days of Rudd and Gillard).

News Ltd has 70% of the market share, now this doesn't mean they own 70% of print media in Australia, but rather that of the market share, News Ltd publications are the most popular and 70% of the market goes to them.

News Ltd is a straight out and out LNP mouth piece, there's no ifs, no buts, no maybes.

If you think unions are going to get a fair go outside of ABC or SBS, you're living in fairy land

So what you're saying is.. the train drivers should jump in with the LGBTQIFSZA+, play the victim card and they will get what they want?

Awesome.

 

[CaptainJackson]

So what you're saying is.. the train drivers should jump in with the LGBTQIFSZA+, play the victim card and they will get what they want?

Awesome.

Yes, exactly, that's exactly what I said.

The fact that your lot can't deal with the facts and have to go off on completely irrelevant/erroneous tangents says volumes about your view point

 

[CroydonDog]

Sorry guys, I'm blessed with a very good HR

No need to apologise

But no matter how great/helpful you think your HR department is, they ultimately work for your employer, not you. And if push ever came to shove, they will know what side their bread is buttered on.

 

[Dawgfather]

Where have you gathered I said that? I didn't even allude to it, but basically, it's NOT YOUR BUSINESS.

lol ok mate.


I pay taxes, and mind you I pay more tax than most people in this state (which I'm happy to do based on my income), but at the same time I expect my tax dollars to be managed appropriately. Part of that management includes ensuring that government workers don't get awarded with increases to wages and entitlements that far exceed the productivity improvements they've provided. Especially in a climate where most workers in this state have seen their real wages go backwards.

My tax dollars pay train driver wages and it's absolutely mine and every other tax payers business, what happens with those tax dollars.

 

[JayBee]

Yes, exactly, that's exactly what I said.

The fact that your lot can't deal with the facts and have to go off on completely irrelevant/erroneous tangents says volumes about your view point

No need to get your panties in a twist mate.

I actually agree a lot with what you're saying. I just think it is extremely rich to be asking for a 6% pay rise, in an economy on the cusp of a downward trend.

That being said, their treatment when it comes to OT speaks volumes about the state of the transit industry. Constance has a fight on his hands...

 

[CaptainJackson]

lol ok mate.


I pay taxes, and mind you I pay more tax than most people in this state (which I'm happy to do based on my income), but at the same time I expect my tax dollars to be managed appropriately. Part of that management includes ensuring that government workers don't get awarded with increases to wages and entitlements that far exceed the productivity improvements they've provided. Especially in a climate where most workers in this state have seen their real wages go backwards.

My tax dollars pay train driver wages and it's absolutely mine and every other tax payers business, what happens with those tax dollars.

Hahahahahaa FFS what an absolute load of garbage.

Do you really want to go down this route Britt? really?

Because quite simply, I'll ask you for an analysis of salaries for EVERY SINGLE GOVERNMENT DEPARTMENT AND EMPLOYEE LEVEL. So that you can provide your "expert" analysis on train drivers requesting an increase in wage based on what they do and compared to EVERY SINGLE OTHER government employee.

Here are the facts:-

https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/ne...and-publications/sydney-trains-annual-reports


From the 2016-2017 Report

Number of Train Crew

2013/14 - 2447
2014/15 - 2400
2016/17 - 2469

Page 26 of the 2016/17 annual report, you'd assume that graph of salaries between $75k and $100k would match the train crew.

https://transportnsw.info/news/2017/new-timetables--more-services

• More than 1,500 new weekly train services, including 750 new weekend train services.

So a very small increase of train drivers with an additional 1,500 new services.

Here also is a "reported" concern of a Sydney Train Driver:-

https://www.lifehacker.com.au/2018/01/heres-what-a-train-driver-thinks-of-the-sydney-strike/

The fact is this service is essential to the city and you can have as much guess work as you want about the wages of train drivers, the plain fact is you don't know. All we can gather from the annual report is that it's between $75k and $100k.

So we've got a situation where:-

• A vital service to the city needs to be run
• The government has been irresponsible in adding an additional 1,500 services, with only an extra 22 drivers
• Hence the government has massively understaffed their services
• The government is now in a position where they can't bring in train drivers from Melbourne or Brisbane on higher wages because this immediately gives power to the train drivers in Sydney
• The government again has given all power to train drivers by under staffing their services
• Demand and Supply, simple economics. Train drivers are being asked to forgo their personal life, PAY UP!
• Slave labour doesn't exist anymore

This is a complete mark against the minister and the state government, they've royally screwed up.

Since you're so concerned about your tax dollars being wasted, and this wastage being answerable to you, contact Andrew Constance and demand his resignation for a cluster stuff up

 

[CaptainJackson]

Just as an extra they've understaffed their services and opted to pay overtime because it's much cheaper paying someone an extra 20k to 30k then hiring a new train driver for 75k minimum.

They're pushing their drivers beyond limits, in the long run even that 6% increase saves the government money by not hiring new drivers

 

[Alan79]

lol ok mate.


I pay taxes, and mind you I pay more tax than most people in this state (which I'm happy to do based on my income), but at the same time I expect my tax dollars to be managed appropriately. Part of that management includes ensuring that government workers don't get awarded with increases to wages and entitlements that far exceed the productivity improvements they've provided. Especially in a climate where most workers in this state have seen their real wages go backwards.

My tax dollars pay train driver wages and it's absolutely mine and every other tax payers business, what happens with those tax dollars.

I would have assumed that the income from ticket sales would be more responsible for staff wages than your tax dollars. This is the way most businesses like this work. You could make your argument about council workers or hospital staff, but trains would contribute to the government budget and might also go some way towards contributing to running costs of other government services.

I just googled the price rise in ticketing and it's reported that it's sitting at a 10% rise. So you would assume that ticket pricing would cover the pay rise drivers are asking for.
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/opal-cree...since-ticketing-overhaul-20171213-h03o3a.html

And when it comes to the crunch the drivers are probably not going to hold out for 6%, but if negotiations have stalled from the employers side it makes no sense for the union to drop their expectations yet either.

 

[Dawgfather]

I would have assumed that the income from ticket sales would be more responsible for staff wages than your tax dollars. This is the way most businesses like this work. You could make your argument about council workers or hospital staff, but trains would contribute to the government budget and might also go some way towards contributing to running costs of other government services.

I just googled the price rise in ticketing and it's reported that it's sitting at a 10% rise. So you would assume that ticket pricing would cover the pay rise drivers are asking for.
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/opal-cree...since-ticketing-overhaul-20171213-h03o3a.html

And when it comes to the crunch the drivers are probably not going to hold out for 6%, but if negotiations have stalled from the employers side it makes no sense for the union to drop their expectations yet either.

Sydney trains does not run for profit. So long as it’s in public hands this is how it should be run.

It’s also well reported that ticket sales do not cover operating costs of Sydney trains. Sydney trains runs at an approximate $1.5 billion loss every year.

 

[Ecca]

I've read that despite the weekend schedule after the strike was vetoed by the fair work commission that many drivers were still at work but forced to sit round in lunchrooms by management. This is just something that filtered through my facebook feed so I don't know if it's truth or not. Perhaps you can enlighten us.

If that was the case it goes to show that some of CaptainJacksons arguments are well supported. If this was the case management was manipulating public opinion against the drivers and this side of things was ignored by the media. One of the tools Unions used to have in their favor was the media, but during Howards time in government the media rules were changed to allow mass ownership of media outlets by rich right wing supporters and since that time the media has largely been one sided in their representation of arguments like this. I recall reading an article where Kerry Packer did his best to manipulate public opinion to get Abbott into power. I even recall a front page article in the lead up to his election win that had a photo of abbott with the heading along the lines of 'Australia needs Tony". Pretty blatant example of how their political affiliations stand. Many people are duped by things like this. If something like this is used to generate poorer perception about the Bulldogs I see an uproar on here, but people these days largely ignore politics, so the large media outlets can do thigs like this without recrimination.

NODDING while saying no

 

[Bob dog]

This bloke can't even give a Ferry a decent name, the Premier has no control over her Police and I'm not sure this Government will get back in.

 

[N4TE]

I pay taxes, and mind you I pay more tax than most people in this state (which I'm happy to do based on my income)

Part of that management includes ensuring that government workers don't get awarded with increases to wages and entitlements that far exceed the productivity improvements they've provided.

Thats nice for you. I'm sure other people agree based on what you said now they see your perspective..

Look I take that back I hate dickheads that fight on Internet forums but just thought that comment was a little of the humble mark.

 

[Dawgfather]

Thats nice for you. I'm sure other people agree based on what you said now they see your perspective..

Look I take that back I hate dickheads that fight on Internet forums but just thought that comment was a little of the humble mark.

I read that three times but I'm honestly not sure what you're trying to say lol?

 

[Bad Billy]

Has anybody asked if they want to work the OT ?
It’s quite possible that the ‘required OT’ complaint, is just being used as leverage to get what they want, but if you hired 100 new drivers, they’d blow up about the effect on their income ?
I know personally, I work all the OT I can, I’m young, fit, have a young family and my missus is a stay at home Mum.
Id lose it if my work stopped offering me OT.

 

[Wahesh]

This bloke can't even give a Ferry a decent name, the Premier has no control over her Police and I'm not sure this Government will get back in.

Dude, you're after the Ferry Megathread.

Hey... wait a minute...

 

[Dawgfather]

Has anybody asked if they want to work the OT ?
It’s quite possible that the ‘required OT’ complaint, is just being used as leverage to get what they want, but if you hired 100 new drivers, they’d blow up about the effect on their income ?
I know personally, I work all the OT I can, I’m young, fit, have a young family and my missus is a stay at home Mum.
Id lose it if my work stopped offering me OT.

Stop making sense

 

[CaptainJackson]

Has anybody asked if they want to work the OT ?
It’s quite possible that the ‘required OT’ complaint, is just being used as leverage to get what they want, but if you hired 100 new drivers, they’d blow up about the effect on their income ?
I know personally, I work all the OT I can, I’m young, fit, have a young family and my missus is a stay at home Mum.
Id lose it if my work stopped offering me OT.

Stop making sense

Mate that's a CHOICE. If people choose to work that much so be it, some don't. Some are content with a 75k wage and more family time

 

[Bob dog]

Loving every bit of Rail Corp was inept and needed the ass theory, what was wrong with railway people running the railway?
Man this is chaos never seen since 1984

 

[Dawgfather]

Man this is chaos never seen since 1984

Not sure about that. There’s been lots of hot air and the new timetable clearly has some issues but I’m sure there has been far greater chaos in the last 34 years.

 

[Dawgfather]

Mate that's a CHOICE. If people choose to work that much so be it, some don't. Some are content with a 75k wage and more family time

I agree with you. That’s also why approx 3% each year for 4 years is a very generous offer to an unskilled workforce.