Penalties and Errors for Bulldogs in 2017 compared to previous years.

[Indiandog]

So Melbourne Storm has not only won the minor premiership but also taken out the big one.

We have heard a lot about our previous coach - the supposed "super coach" was obsessed with stats. So I decided to collect some stats on my own to compare what was the difference between the successful teams in the comp (generally top 8 teams) this year to not so successful team coached by the stats man.

So for 2017 :

Penalties conceded:

1- Storm (190)
2- Sharks (186)
3- Manly (180)
4- Eels (179)
5- Panthers (179)
6- Roosters (165)


11- Bulldogs (155)

16/Last- Dragons (130)

Notice how the top 6 teams in the comp were the most penalized too with the most penalized team in the comp turns out to be the best team too.


Errors:

1- Roosters (303)
2- Panthers (284)
3- Sharks (283)
4- Broncos (274)
5- Cowboys (268)
6- Eels (264)
7- Storm (263)

13- Dragons (237)
14- Bulldogs (237)

16/Last- Warriors (226)

Notice again how the top 7 teams with the highest error rates were also the top 7 teams in the comp minus Manly.

Conclusion:

It is pretty evident from the stats provided that this year and also from previous years (Roosters 2013,2014,2015), in order to be successful in the comp , to make top 4 or top 8 , a team doesnt have to be error free or less penalized. These stats are the best indication that how important Kasiano has been for us over the years despite his errors. He copped a lot of flak on this forum due to his stupid offloads and drop balls, but again if you look at the stats it proves if you want to score points and be successful in the comp you need players like Kasiano who may give away a penalty or two and make an error here and there but with these players you can win the comp. Definitely not the players in the Dragons team who were super disciplined in 2017 when it came to errors/ penalties but couldn't even make the top 8. Look at Warriors , they have cut down on their errors immensely from previous years (best team in the comp when it came to making Errors) yet they came 3rd last.

This year Bulldogs were the least penalized in the last 5 years and we didnt make the top 8 for the first time in last 5 years. In 2012 we were the most penalized team in the comp with second highest errors and we won the minor premiership and also made the GF.

Dean Pay , here is a premiership winning formula for you. where should i send the invoice?

 

[matthew]

If you throw the ball around more and chance your arm you will come up with more errors but you will come up with more line break opportunities

 

[Indiandog]

If you throw the ball around more and chance your arm you will come up with more errors but you will come up with more line break opportunities

as evident by the success of our (bulldogs) most penalized and most error prone team in last 5 years

 

[blueyedsamurai]

Notice how the top 6 teams in the comp were the most penalized too with the most penalized team in the comp turns out to be the best team too.

Roosters were the most penalised in 2013 and 2014 winning the MP both years, Raiders (finished 2nd) and Sharks(won premiership) the most in 2016. Teams have worked out that if you get penalised enough doing something the refs will let it go eventually and you'll get away with it.

 

[ElMagicElMasri]

This is pretty superficial though. I doubt anyone seriously looks at these stats at face value, they would be more concerned with the timings of errors/penalties and their position on the field. I'd say the the top sides have a vastly bigger percentage of penalties conceded in their own 10m as well as fewer errors when there is a score margin of +-6 or in their own half.

 

[bcmf]

This is pretty superficial though. I doubt anyone seriously looks at these stats at face value, they would be more concerned with the timings of errors/penalties and their position on the field. I'd say the the top sides have a vastly bigger percentage of penalties conceded in their own 10m as well as fewer errors when there is a score margin of +-6 or in their own half.

On the same note, you can't just keep talking about possession, "if we complete at 85% we win".

Lockyer said it best during the halftime in the 2017 grand final. "Cowboys have had good possession but they're not doing enough with the ball". At that stage the cowboys I think had completed 16/17.

 

[EXPLORER]

It's all good zee
That bad man is gone not

Just put the nightmare that was the past 5 years behind you

And embrace a new generation of bulldog culture under Pay

 

[Powerslide]

by no means a Des lover.... but everyone gotta stop on the possession and error bandwagon.... i don't believe that Des has ever said that we need more possession or less errors than the opposition team to win the game... Des was getting the team to play a strategy that required tons of possession and no errors to succeed. Never going to work.
comparing our errors to other teams is pointless and does nothing to discount Haslers theory. Unless you were showing we had zero errors its pointless.

he just had unrealistic expectations of a bunch of footy players....

 

[Indiandog]

It's all good zee
That bad man is gone not

Just put the nightmare that was the past 5 years behind you

And embrace a new generation of bulldog culture under Pay

i am not making this out to be another "fuck des" thread.

just pointing out that higher penalties and high error rates result in team success as evident from the stats of last 5 years.

plus under des , our best year was 2012 , where we were the worst in the comp for giving away penalties and second worst in the comp for making errors.

Since then we improved our penalty count and errors and we continue to decline in performance.

 

[KiwiDog7]

We don't need deep analysis around numbers to show how inept our season was lol

 

[D- voice]

Under Des...We have failed on two grounds:
1 We stopped attacking with our defense, we would rather wait for them to run at us...Preserve energy ???
Bring back the dogs of war !
2 Our attack was always very nervous and worried to chance their hands...No mistakes football ???
Practice makes perfect, that's what the off season is for !
Bring back the entertainers !
Team work...one for all and all for one !

 

[Oatley Dog]

So Melbourne Storm has not only won the minor premiership but also taken out the big one.

We have heard a lot about our previous coach - the supposed "super coach" was obsessed with stats. So I decided to collect some stats on my own to compare what was the difference between the successful teams in the comp (generally top 8 teams) this year to not so successful team coached by the stats man.

So for 2017 :

Penalties conceded:

1- Storm (190)
2- Sharks (186)
3- Manly (180)
4- Eels (179)
5- Panthers (179)
6- Roosters (165)


11- Bulldogs (155)

16/Last- Dragons (130)

Notice how the top 6 teams in the comp were the most penalized too with the most penalized team in the comp turns out to be the best team too.


Errors:

1- Roosters (303)
2- Panthers (284)
3- Sharks (283)
4- Broncos (274)
5- Cowboys (268)
6- Eels (264)
7- Storm (263)

13- Dragons (237)
14- Bulldogs (237)

16/Last- Warriors (226)

Notice again how the top 7 teams with the highest error rates were also the top 7 teams in the comp minus Manly.

Conclusion:

It is pretty evident from the stats provided that this year and also from previous years (Roosters 2013,2014,2015), in order to be successful in the comp , to make top 4 or top 8 , a team doesnt have to be error free or less penalized. These stats are the best indication that how important Kasiano has been for us over the years despite his errors. He copped a lot of flak on this forum due to his stupid offloads and drop balls, but again if you look at the stats it proves if you want to score points and be successful in the comp you need players like Kasiano who may give away a penalty or two and make an error here and there but with these players you can win the comp. Definitely not the players in the Dragons team who were super disciplined in 2017 when it came to errors/ penalties but couldn't even make the top 8. Look at Warriors , they have cut down on their errors immensely from previous years (best team in the comp when it came to making Errors) yet they came 3rd last.

This year Bulldogs were the least penalized in the last 5 years and we didnt make the top 8 for the first time in last 5 years. In 2012 we were the most penalized team in the comp with second highest errors and we won the minor premiership and also made the GF.

Dean Pay , here is a premiership winning formula for you. where should i send the invoice?

That's the extent of your 'analysis'? Yes, the game has changed from one of possession and repeat sets to one of field position and pressure but if you look at the penalties the top sides concede they have a higher proportion on their own line than in other locations because they back their defensive structures. Proportionately they would have less that gave the opposition a piggy back out of their own red zone. Unlike us who conceded penalties in our own half with monotonous regularity.

Same thing applies with errors. You make them while attacking the opposition line and it doesn't hurt anywhere near as much as when it is on your line which we again did all too often last season.

Doesn't matter what era Kas plays in, stupid plays are still stupid plays and running out of gas after two hitups is not what a first grade footballer is about. That's his problem, not errors or faulty passes.

 

[chisdog]

If you throw the ball around more and chance your arm you will come up with more errors but you will come up with more line break opportunities

Risk & reward.

 

[dogluva]

On the same note, you can't just keep talking about possession, "if we complete at 85% we win".

Lockyer said it best during the halftime in the 2017 grand final. "Cowboys have had good possession but they're not doing enough with the ball". At that stage the cowboys I think had completed 16/17.

Copycats.....

 

[Indiandog]

Copycats.....

exactly, Cowboys played so much Desball at the back end , but they had Morgan + Tamulolo.

 

[Kempsey Dog]

So Melbourne Storm has not only won the minor premiership but also taken out the big one.

We have heard a lot about our previous coach - the supposed "super coach" was obsessed with stats. So I decided to collect some stats on my own to compare what was the difference between the successful teams in the comp (generally top 8 teams) this year to not so successful team coached by the stats man.

So for 2017 :

Penalties conceded:

1- Storm (190)
2- Sharks (186)
3- Manly (180)
4- Eels (179)
5- Panthers (179)
6- Roosters (165)


11- Bulldogs (155)

16/Last- Dragons (130)

Notice how the top 6 teams in the comp were the most penalized too with the most penalized team in the comp turns out to be the best team too.


Errors:

1- Roosters (303)
2- Panthers (284)
3- Sharks (283)
4- Broncos (274)
5- Cowboys (268)
6- Eels (264)
7- Storm (263)

13- Dragons (237)
14- Bulldogs (237)

16/Last- Warriors (226)

Notice again how the top 7 teams with the highest error rates were also the top 7 teams in the comp minus Manly.

Conclusion:

It is pretty evident from the stats provided that this year and also from previous years (Roosters 2013,2014,2015), in order to be successful in the comp , to make top 4 or top 8 , a team doesnt have to be error free or less penalized. These stats are the best indication that how important Kasiano has been for us over the years despite his errors. He copped a lot of flak on this forum due to his stupid offloads and drop balls, but again if you look at the stats it proves if you want to score points and be successful in the comp you need players like Kasiano who may give away a penalty or two and make an error here and there but with these players you can win the comp. Definitely not the players in the Dragons team who were super disciplined in 2017 when it came to errors/ penalties but couldn't even make the top 8. Look at Warriors , they have cut down on their errors immensely from previous years (best team in the comp when it came to making Errors) yet they came 3rd last.

This year Bulldogs were the least penalized in the last 5 years and we didnt make the top 8 for the first time in last 5 years. In 2012 we were the most penalized team in the comp with second highest errors and we won the minor premiership and also made the GF.

Dean Pay , here is a premiership winning formula for you. where should i send the invoice?

Thats because those 'top' teams play an exciting brand of footy... errors are fine when you make them on your opponents try line when your already up by 12-18 points. Des never got this though...

 

[steeliz]

So Melbourne Storm has not only won the minor premiership but also taken out the big one.

We have heard a lot about our previous coach - the supposed "super coach" was obsessed with stats. So I decided to collect some stats on my own to compare what was the difference between the successful teams in the comp (generally top 8 teams) this year to not so successful team coached by the stats man.

So for 2017 :

Penalties conceded:

1- Storm (190)
2- Sharks (186)
3- Manly (180)
4- Eels (179)
5- Panthers (179)
6- Roosters (165)


11- Bulldogs (155)

16/Last- Dragons (130)

Notice how the top 6 teams in the comp were the most penalized too with the most penalized team in the comp turns out to be the best team too.


Errors:

1- Roosters (303)
2- Panthers (284)
3- Sharks (283)
4- Broncos (274)
5- Cowboys (268)
6- Eels (264)
7- Storm (263)

13- Dragons (237)
14- Bulldogs (237)

16/Last- Warriors (226)

Notice again how the top 7 teams with the highest error rates were also the top 7 teams in the comp minus Manly.

Conclusion:

It is pretty evident from the stats provided that this year and also from previous years (Roosters 2013,2014,2015), in order to be successful in the comp , to make top 4 or top 8 , a team doesnt have to be error free or less penalized. These stats are the best indication that how important Kasiano has been for us over the years despite his errors. He copped a lot of flak on this forum due to his stupid offloads and drop balls, but again if you look at the stats it proves if you want to score points and be successful in the comp you need players like Kasiano who may give away a penalty or two and make an error here and there but with these players you can win the comp. Definitely not the players in the Dragons team who were super disciplined in 2017 when it came to errors/ penalties but couldn't even make the top 8. Look at Warriors , they have cut down on their errors immensely from previous years (best team in the comp when it came to making Errors) yet they came 3rd last.

This year Bulldogs were the least penalized in the last 5 years and we didnt make the top 8 for the first time in last 5 years. In 2012 we were the most penalized team in the comp with second highest errors and we won the minor premiership and also made the GF.

Dean Pay , here is a premiership winning formula for you. where should i send the invoice?

If you want a little statistical project, the one stat that is never quoted is penalties recieved. I bet those top 6 had a better for and against in penalties than the rest of the comp.

 

[Wolfmother]

overly structured football such as takes the decision making out of the team ..meaning we were a dumb team .

 

[dogluva]

If you want a little statistical project, the one stat that is never quoted is penalties recieved. I bet those top 6 had a better for and against in penalties than the rest of the comp.

According to NRL stats( https://www.nrl.com/stats/telstrapremiership/clubstatistics/tabid/10254/default.aspx )the Storm conceded the most penalties this year in 27 games @ 190 four ahead of their nearest rival Sharks. Would have to go through the penalty won counts for the whole year manually to see how that came out, but according to an article end of July this year, the Storm had only won 6 of the weekly penalty counts.

17 of the penalties awarded to them were converted into points ( goals) but that was behind the 24 to the Cows.

 

[steeliz]

According to NRL stats( https://www.nrl.com/stats/telstrapremiership/clubstatistics/tabid/10254/default.aspx )the Storm conceded the most penalties this year in 27 games @ 190 four ahead of their nearest rival Sharks. Would have to go through the penalty won counts for the whole year manually to see how that came out, but according to an article end of July this year, the Storm had only won 6 of the weekly penalty counts.

17 of the penalties awarded to them were converted into points ( goals) but that was behind the 24 to the Cows.

I only asked because I remember a stat that Sterlo mentioned that we were the team that had received the least amount of penalties two years in a row, 2013 & 2014 I think.