Margaret Court.. were the project hosts disgraceful?

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DoggiesBoy

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The Catholic Church does NOT have anything against gay people. Catholics believe you are who God made you. What the Catholic Church DOES have an issue with is those who engage in gay activity, ie gays "doing it" with one another.
So god made them gay and than punishes them for it. God seems to like making creatures with homosexual behaviors, there are plenty in the animal kingdom that have documented homosexual behaviors.
 

Wahesh

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So god made them gay and than punishes them for it. God seems to like making creatures with homosexual behaviors, there are plenty in the animal kingdom that have documented homosexual behaviors.
Apart from dolphins, what other animals in the world have sex drive?
 

DoggiesBoy

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Apart from dolphins, what other animals in the world have sex drive?
There are plenty of animals that have sex for reasons other than procreating. How do explain god giving all these many different animals homosexual behaviors? Why does god create homosexual humans and than punish them for it?
 

CaptainJackson

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Well they are PUBLIC holidays, if Christians want to go to Church on those days, then that's their business.
When those holidays were ORIGNALLY stolen from Pagans, I'd think circumstances would be somewhat similar to gays wanting marriage today.

Who are the pagans? In any case its an ironic statement because in years to come you should be able to apply the same question to heterosexuals and marriage ,that is , if we allow gays to hijack marriage
That's the point. Things change over the course of time.

I'd love to be a fly on the wall in one of your meetings , reckon your give them something to think about
Yeh they generally leanr very quickly that I understand things better than they do and shut up and let me lead meetings even when they aren't my meetings.
 

Wahesh

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When those holidays were ORIGNALLY stolen from Pagans, I'd think circumstances would be somewhat similar to gays wanting marriage today.
So you're saying that a Christian holiday was created for Pegans, aka those who are non-Christian?
 

nikgan123

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The real question here is why are we STILL allowing religious views to dictate laws? Australia should not continue down the same path as America- societies laws should come from the vote, not from a politician who has backwards views who decides to chime in whenever there is a debate on SSM. That's exactly why a referendum should occur and that's exactly why Australia needs to reaffirm itself as a secular society. Laws are meant to represent the views of the majority, not old people who haven't moved on with the times. Also, being a teenager, I no plenty of people my age accept gay marriage/relationships. Sorry but I am over old people dictating how my country should be run when they will probably die in 5-10 years, and not feel the full force of their backwards laws. That goes for climate change, immigration, religious acceptance, SSM etc. It's not even a disrespect thing. I just don't want old people to control how I live my life in 20 odd years (when they will be dead). Oh and as a young guy I'm really looking forward to not being able to afford a house when I am older (more proof of my disappointment in dinosaur politicians). Fun times ahead!
 

CaptainJackson

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So you're saying that a Christian holiday was created for Pegans, aka those who are non-Christian?
No I'm saying that these already existed before Christianity, the Roman emperor renamed them to unite the pagans and christians when Rome finally declared christianity as it's official religion.

The real question here is why are we STILL allowing religious views to dictate laws? Australia should not continue down the same path as America- societies laws should come from the vote, not from a politician who has backwards views who decides to chime in whenever there is a debate on SSM. That's exactly why a referendum should occur and that's exactly why Australia needs to reaffirm itself as a secular society. Laws are meant to represent the views of the majority, not old people who haven't moved on with the times. Also, being a teenager, I no plenty of people my age accept gay marriage/relationships. Sorry but I am over old people dictating how my country should be run when they will probably die in 5-10 years, and not feel the full force of their backwards laws. That goes for climate change, immigration, religious acceptance, SSM etc. It's not even a disrespect thing. I just don't want old people to control how I live my life in 20 odd years (when they will be dead). Oh and as a young guy I'm really looking forward to not being able to afford a house when I am older (more proof of my disappointment in dinosaur politicians). Fun times ahead!
Stay strong with it and always look to progress.

Though the one reason people, who agree with SSM, but want to avoid a referendum or plebiscite is that those that oppose SSM have come out with some nasty lies, one only has to visit the ACL site or listen to their leader Lyle Shelton to see how absolute revolting these people are. They couldn't care less about the damage they do to other people, only about their outdated goat herder beliefs
 

nikgan123

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No I'm saying that these already existed before Christianity, the Roman emperor renamed them to unite the pagans and christians when Rome finally declared christianity as it's official religion.



Stay strong with it and always look to progress.

Though the one reason people, who agree with SSM, but want to avoid a referendum or plebiscite is that those that oppose SSM have come out with some nasty lies, one only has to visit the ACL site or listen to their leader Lyle Shelton to see how absolute revolting these people are. They couldn't care less about the damage they do to other people, only about their outdated goat herder beliefs
Exactly! Jeff sessions might as well be Aussie
 

CroydonDog

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The real question here is why are we STILL allowing religious views to dictate laws? Australia should not continue down the same path as America- societies laws should come from the vote, not from a politician who has backwards views who decides to chime in whenever there is a debate on SSM. That's exactly why a referendum should occur and that's exactly why Australia needs to reaffirm itself as a secular society. Laws are meant to represent the views of the majority, not old people who haven't moved on with the times. Also, being a teenager, I no plenty of people my age accept gay marriage/relationships. Sorry but I am over old people dictating how my country should be run when they will probably die in 5-10 years, and not feel the full force of their backwards laws. That goes for climate change, immigration, religious acceptance, SSM etc. It's not even a disrespect thing. I just don't want old people to control how I live my life in 20 odd years (when they will be dead). Oh and as a young guy I'm really looking forward to not being able to afford a house when I am older (more proof of my disappointment in dinosaur politicians). Fun times ahead!
I'm with you on most points just with one exception.

I don't think this sort of things should be resolved by a referendum unless there is a constitutional reason for doing so (like there was in Ireland). A non-binding plebiscite would have been even worse.

We elect parliamentarians to make the laws of the country - whether we trust them to do the right thing is another story of course. I hope at your age you don;t get too jaded before you grow up :grinning:
 

Flanagun

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I mean, we don't want to be attacking each other.

Its offensive. Best to keep it respectful.
Best to keep it respectful.....unless the human rights of gay people are involved? It really infuriates me how certain religious ideologues refuse to show respect but request respect be shown to their disrespectful views. No single religion owns the concept of marriage....we are a secular country....we observe all sorts of weddings in this country....non-denominational weddings....interfaith weddings....two atheists get married and nobody gives a shit....two people of the same sex want to get married and its an outrage in the eyes of some? I really don't see how followers of any single religion can claim to have a mortgage on the concept of marriage when it is clearly obvious that marriage is an act members of cultures from all around the world, both contemporary and primitive have engaged in..... Why is a secular same sex wedding more offensive than a secular wedding involving a male and female? The fact is Christians do not and never have owned the concept of marriage and it really isn't the place of religious ideologues to try and restrict same sex couples' freedom to marry if they choose.

Margaret has stated numerous times she does not hate gays and welcomes them into her Parish.
Passive aggressive is the term....she's fucking horrible.....and the fact she is so insincere as to try and be nice about it makes it worse.
 
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FreshSoulL

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Best to keep it respectful.....unless the human rights of gay people are involved? It really infuriates me how certain religious ideologues refuse to show respect but request respect be shown to their disrespectful views. No single religion owns the concept of marriage....we are a secular country....we observe all sorts of weddings in this country....non-denominational weddings....interfaith weddings....two atheists get married and nobody gives a shit....two people of the same sex want to get married and its an outrage in the eyes of some? I really don't see how followers of any single religion can claim to have a mortgage on the concept of marriage when it is clearly obvious that marriage is an act members of cultures from all around the world, both contemporary and primitive have engaged in..... Why is a secular same sex wedding more offensive than a secular wedding involving a male and female? The fact is Christians do not and never have owned the concept of marriage and it really isn't the place of religious ideologues to try and restrict same sex couples' freedom to marry if they choose.



Passive aggressive is the term....she's fucking horrible.....and the fact she is so insincere as to try and be nice about it makes it worse.
I am a Christian and to tell you the truth 3 of my good friends opened up to me about their sexuality. (I being the first person they opened up to despite knowing my view). They are still my good friends. I love them.

I don't care what the secular world does. I cant and wont stop it but I will not support it just as long as they don't force churches to marry gay people. That's my position.
 

Wahesh

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These animals are still engaging in homosexual acts, god should punish them. Another one, why does god permit inbreeding between humans but does not allow homosexuals(but does allow animals to engage in homosexual acts)?
Because animals DO NOT have a concept of what is a sin and what is not. By your logic, animals that hunt and eat other animals are murderers.
 

Wahesh

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Passive aggressive is the term....she's fucking horrible.....and the fact she is so insincere as to try and be nice about it makes it worse.
Ok so... Margaret is horrible because she's insincere. She's not entitled to her opinion? Last time I check, her opinion is also that of the current law!
 

Flanagun

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Ok so... Margaret is horrible because she's insincere. She's not entitled to her opinion? Last time I check, her opinion is also that of the current law!
She's entitled to her own opinion as to whether she wants to gay marry....she is not entitled to an opinion on whether others should be able to...or rather, she is entitled to that opinion, but nobody is bound to take it seriously or respect that viewpoint....it's really that simple IMO. I don't think it'ds her business and I have no respect for her viewpoint.

Stop using the law as a defence...laws change...and the only reason this law hasn't changed yet is because of regressive politicians. Many human rights violations have already occurred in this young nation in the name of the law. The law in this case is stupid, regressive and restrictive of individual liberties and personal freedoms. It is not reflective of this time and age and it needs to change.

If you don't like it, fine....don't gay marry anyone.....you have zero right to tell two same sex people they don't have that right. I don't care if your position is backed by antiquated laws, regressive politicians and passive aggressive, nasty people like Margaret Court....by telling others who they can or can't marry, you're sticking your nose in other people's business.

Yes, she is disgusting in my opinion. I have less than no respect for her. And if she wants to use her sporting profile as a platform to try and spew her intolerant crap, she has no right to ask people to respect her tennis career separately of her opinions.....

Tennis legend or not, Margaret Court is a national embarrassment IMO.

She's 100 percent entitled to her opinion....just as others are 100 percent entitled to say she's sticking her nose in where it doesn't belong.....or that she is a shit person for holding a given opinion.

If she's entitled to think she should have a say over whether two other consenting adults have a right to marry, I am entitled to reject her views and opine that she is a crazy and mean spirited old fuckwit.
 

DoggiesBoy

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Because animals DO NOT have a concept of what is a sin and what is not. By your logic, animals that hunt and eat other animals are murderers.
Well than by your logic, how can a homosexual know if what they are doing is a sin if they don't attend YOUR CHURCH? What happens if they attend a different church or lets just call it a holy place and they have different views? What makes your holy place correct over another?
 

Hacky McAxe

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Told myself I would not get involved in what inevitably turns into mud-slinging. Oh well!

First, the debate will always be frivolous if each opponent takes as a starting point opposite foundations. This current debate is merely the symptom of much deeper and much more serious ones – like our place in the world, purpose and meaning of life, moral truth etc. And then there are the two different questions: the moral question and that of legality, and legislation in light of morality etc.

In terms of equality of rights, such is simply achieved by all peoples being afforded the same abilities and functions under law. Now, so far as I know, civil unions grant the same functions (rights) under law as marriage does. This being the case – equality already exists in this respect. The Civil Union Act grants rights the Marriage Act does. Obviously, then, there is a social motivation to it all. Some don’t merely want a legally recognized union. They further want to disregard an established force which has clearly and successfully served the world, and essentially change it, and by implication, whether implicit or explicitly stated, indicting its entire history to this point. Whatever one’s reasoning behind pursuing such a course of action or cause, it does lead me to wonder to what extent changing such foundational practice (as marriage) changes society and culture at large in the long run – beyond the merely superficial aspects one might raise.
As they say, ideas have consequences, and we are largely the product of our environment. So let's not act as though this issue is exempt from this.

Someone here said that it is “all subjective”. This is very sloppily phrased. Does everyone have their subjective opinion? Sure. But does that mean there is no objectively true right and wrong, good and bad? Hardly. People can have their subjective views – but they can be wrong! (if there are moral facts that are beyond merely subjective). And merely citing that people have different views in no way entails there is no correct view.

Now to some the question of SSM is not a moral one but a legal one. To some it is a moral one. To some it is both. And some wish to eschew the democratic process by making vacuous appeals to emotion using watchwords and phrases (e.g. ‘love is love’) which they would never wish to use to defend other new pushes and movements which are currently emerging (that would make most sick to their stomach). Some think legislation should be based on what is morally right. But not everyone agrees with what is morally right or whether this is a moral issue. And so on.

In the end, much of the debate stems from another debate: regarding the ultimate nature of reality and whether or not we exist with any purpose above the purpose one gives to themselves. And really, if everything (morally) is subjective, and if there is no real purpose to our lives or ultimate significance or reason why we exist…then there isn’t much to say – no one would hold valid grounds to indict and moralize against anyone.

Ultimately, as I said at the outset – if opponents begin with different assumptions and pictures of the world, the debate is frivolous.

And also, regardless of one's position here, those who so cavalierly say “In couldn’t care less what two consenting adults do” – yes, you do. Maybe not as regards the current topic at hand, but certainly for other topics. But I won’t cite examples, at risk of erroneously being accused of equating things.
This is long. I won't address all of it. Just a couple of things:

1) civil union and marriage don't hold the same rights. For example, if a partner dies without a will then the husband/wife gets priority on stating the outcomes of the will. A member of a civil union doesn't get these rights. They get very little rights when it comes to it. This is why a civil union in most places is much easier to get than a marriage.

2) on the "someone said everything was subjective". I believe that was me. But I didn't actually say everything is subjective. I said that the concept of what is considered normal when comparing hetrosexuality and homosexuality is usually subjective.
 

Wahesh

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Well than by your logic, how can a homosexual know if what they are doing is a sin if they don't attend YOUR CHURCH? What happens if they attend a different church or lets just call it a holy place and they have different views? What makes your holy place correct over another?
(A) You said "IF" they attend
(B) No church that I know condones this type of behavior that I know of, and if they do, they are in a minority.
 
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